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amok: Indeed. But we also live in a capitalistic society, and the bottom line is that if a company do not make a profitt, no matter how ethical and idealistic it may be, then they are not going to survive. So Steam currently have the user base to follow those ideals, does GOG?
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timppu: Apparently it does as it is still up and running.

I have no idea why you changed the subject, that has nothing to do with what I said. I just corrected your implication that the reason why Valve is investing in Linux support is not because they have so many more Linux users than GOG. It has nothing to do with that, Valve would invest into it even if they had 1/100th or 1/1000th of Linux users, to what they have now.

The main and maybe even only reason for Valve to invest into Linux gaming is to put pressure to Microsoft, showing them that Valve can (possibly) still have a business even without Microsoft and Windows. And there is nothing wrong with that either, that is very smart from Valve, since they have money for such plan Bs, trying to secure their business at least partially in case the shit really hits the fan.
GOG is indeed up and running, and they do primarily focus on Windows.

I did not change the subject - you did. I was discussing the economics and numbers behind it, while you shifted the conversation toward idealistic visions. I never claimed that Valve focuses on Linux purely to make money; I said they have a user base that enables them to do so. It’s possible that GOG would like to do the same, but only if they reach a user base that makes it viable.

That is all I said. Anything beyond that exists only in your own interpretation.
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amok: I never claimed that Valve focuses on Linux purely to make money; I said they have a user base that enables them to do so.
You might have misread the messages you are answering to, because they do not talk about making money: the claim (that I agree with) is that Valve would have invested in Linux support even without the user base. Because it is not about their customers, but about ensuring their independence from Microsoft.

Actually they did invest in Linux before having a reliable Linux user base, so this is not a vague hypothesis but a description of what they did in 2013 when releasing the first native Linux build of the Steam client.
Post edited January 07, 2025 by vv221
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paladin181: Do they now? I'd love to hear how that works. They support linux by not having their client (or any official software that works) on it, by not releasing linux versions of games even when they exist elsewhere, and by only preserving Windows games in their special preservation program, huh?
Gog is supporting linux the same way your burger king is supporting vegatarian lifestyle with impossible whopper.
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amok: I never claimed that Valve focuses on Linux purely to make money; I said they have a user base that enables them to do so.
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vv221: You might have misread the messages you are answering to, because they do not talk about making money: the claim (that I agree with) is that Valve would have invested in Linux support even without the user base. Because it is not about their customers, but about ensuring their independence from Microsoft.

Actually they did invest in Linux before having a reliable Linux user base, so this is not a vague hypothesis but a description of what they did in 2013 when releasing the first native Linux build of the Steam client.
andthat was entierly beside the point I was making
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vv221: You might have misread the messages you are answering to, because they do not talk about making money: the claim (that I agree with) is that Valve would have invested in Linux support even without the user base. Because it is not about their customers, but about ensuring their independence from Microsoft.

Actually they did invest in Linux before having a reliable Linux user base, so this is not a vague hypothesis but a description of what they did in 2013 when releasing the first native Linux build of the Steam client.
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amok: andthat was entierly beside the point I was making
If your point was just that GOG may not have resources for supporting something that wouldn't make them much of any money at this point (only consume resources), you had an oddly complicated way of saying that, comparing the number of Linux users in GOG vs. Steam etc.

That number is pretty much irrelevant because also in Steam it is so low that Valve is probably spending more money on it than it will "ever" bring them back ("ever" = as long as Windows is Steam's main platform). And as vv221 pointed out, Valve started their Linux support when they didn't know if they had any Linux users.
Post edited January 07, 2025 by timppu
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hooldenord: (…) many hardcore Windows users will at least try some Linux distro instead of buying a new PC that meets Windows 11 system requirements.
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vv221: No, they won’t.
They did not for the Windows 10 release, nor for the Windows 8 one, nor the Windows 7 one… Nothing is different this time, so there is no reason to expect a change in behaviour.
Except all the WINE/DXVK improvements in recent years and Microsoft's plan to make Windows capture your screen every three seconds could very well manage to cause a much more noticeable migration to Linux this time around than ever before.
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Palestine: Pliky had shared their own personal experience with unauthorized transfer of data to OneDrive.
For clarity, this hasn't happened to me. Windows 7 was the last one i used, but i like to stay up to date with tech stuff. I was talking about things i dislike about Windows 11, things i've seen many people online complaining about, either in posts, articles or videos.
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JAAHAS: Except all the WINE/DXVK improvements in recent years and Microsoft's plan to make Windows capture your screen every three seconds could very well manage to cause a much more noticeable migration to Linux this time around than ever before.
I very much doubt that, but I would be happy to be wrong.

DXVK has been here for 6 years, and was not needed at all before 2009~2010.
WINE has been here for 31 years, and has been working very well for decades.
Microsoft has been spying on Windows users for at least 23 years.

If these were going to trigger a mass migration, it would have happened already.
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Pliky: For clarity, this hasn't happened to me. Windows 7 was the last one i used, but i like to stay up to date with tech stuff. I was talking about things i dislike about Windows 11, things i've seen many people online complaining about, either in posts, articles or videos.
Ah, I understand. With my literal mode of operating, the following had been interpreted as an anecdote.
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Pliky: ... doesn't move my local files to "the cloud" without my consent ...
Either way, the mentioned actions taken by Microsoft do not surprise me. While I do not urge others to migrate to a Linux distribution (as, depending upon the individual, they may not possess the requisite skills and/or knowledge to handle emergent situations), I am a proponent of increased awareness of the deteriorating state of Windows. By willfully exasperating its customers, it would seem that Microsoft has employed a previously undisclosed variant of the 'Extinguish' stage of its strategy... against itself.

I have been using Artix Linux and Alpine Linux (both with sinit), and, at times, OpenBSD, for quite a few years. Windows Vista (which in my opinion is burdened with an undeservedly poor reputation) had been my most-recent at-home version of the operating system. It had actually been extremely stable on my old entry-level Intel Core 2 Duo (with or without the service packs). Unfortunately, as business clients had demanded it, I have had the displeasure of installing later versions (for their use). This had included Windows 11, which had required bypassing portions of the initial setup process as static IP configuration had been necessary (as an internet connection had been mandatory during this procedure and I have DHCP disabled), as well as a work-around for the creation of local accounts.
Post edited January 07, 2025 by Palestine
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JAAHAS: Except all the WINE/DXVK improvements in recent years and Microsoft's plan to make Windows capture your screen every three seconds could very well manage to cause a much more noticeable migration to Linux this time around than ever before.
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vv221: I very much doubt that, but I would be happy to be wrong.

DXVK has been here for 6 years, and was not needed at all before 2009~2010.
WINE has been here for 31 years, and has been working very well for decades.
Microsoft has been spying on Windows users for at least 23 years.

If these were going to trigger a mass migration, it would have happened already.
The thing that will move people are not those things but something that says "wait Linux is a viable alternative to windows for gaming" and that thing is the steam deck. I have use windows for years, and I have used Linux previous to that, but when I moved from Linux to Windows I haven't gone back simply because work necessitated me to using Windows. I have had years to move to Linux but stuck with Windows for convenience. Win 11 broke the camel's back and recall is a nightmare I don't want. I was moving to Linux to avoid Win 11, but what made me not cave in and just take it like I did from windows 7 to Windows 10 is the Steam Deck. When I bought one, I finally got a realistic personal experience at how easy it is to game under Linux and now I am sold. Win 10 to Win 11 isn't going to happen for me. By October I'll have Linux as my main OS and still have a Win 10 Partition in case some new game I bought needs it while a proton version gets updated.
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vv221: I very much doubt that, but I would be happy to be wrong.

DXVK has been here for 6 years, and was not needed at all before 2009~2010.
WINE has been here for 31 years, and has been working very well for decades.
Microsoft has been spying on Windows users for at least 23 years.

If these were going to trigger a mass migration, it would have happened already.
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LurkerLito: The thing that will move people are not those things but something that says "wait Linux is a viable alternative to windows for gaming" and that thing is the steam deck. I have use windows for years, and I have used Linux previous to that, but when I moved from Linux to Windows I haven't gone back simply because work necessitated me to using Windows. I have had years to move to Linux but stuck with Windows for convenience. Win 11 broke the camel's back and recall is a nightmare I don't want. I was moving to Linux to avoid Win 11, but what made me not cave in and just take it like I did from windows 7 to Windows 10 is the Steam Deck. When I bought one, I finally got a realistic personal experience at how easy it is to game under Linux and now I am sold. Win 10 to Win 11 isn't going to happen for me. By October I'll have Linux as my main OS and still have a Win 10 Partition in case some new game I bought needs it while a proton version gets updated.
There is likely to be a boost in Linux due to SteamOS, but a widespread migration from Windows to Linux is not anticipated, except among tech-savvy gamers. Most people don’t spend much time considering which operating system they use as long as it functions properly.

Currently, Windows dominates the world PC market, controlling over 73% of it for various reasons—some of which are not good. In contrast, Linux holds just over 4% of the market share. Despite Steam's efforts to promote Linux, Windows continues to account for over 96% of steam market, with Windows 11 seeing nearly a 2% increase. Those users oblivious didn't move to Linux. They swallow the upgraded to 11 and moved on. Haha.

I'm not against Linux. Actually use Linux Mint on one of my gaming laptops, but not fully switching to Linux yet. Maybe one day.
Post edited January 07, 2025 by Syphon72
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amok: andthat was entierly beside the point I was making
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timppu: If your point was just that GOG may not have resources for supporting something that wouldn't make them much of any money at this point (only consume resources), you had an oddly complicated way of saying that, comparing the number of Linux users in GOG vs. Steam etc.

That number is pretty much irrelevant because also in Steam it is so low that Valve is probably spending more money on it than it will "ever" bring them back ("ever" = as long as Windows is Steam's main platform). And as vv221 pointed out, Valve started their Linux support when they didn't know if they had any Linux users.
You are almost on subject, and you are wrong. I just pointed out that the number of Linux users on Steam makes it more viable than on GOG. They have enough traction to make money on Linux games.
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LurkerLito: The thing that will move people are not those things but something that says "wait Linux is a viable alternative to windows for gaming" and that thing is the steam deck. I have use windows for years, and I have used Linux previous to that, but when I moved from Linux to Windows I haven't gone back simply because work necessitated me to using Windows. I have had years to move to Linux but stuck with Windows for convenience. Win 11 broke the camel's back and recall is a nightmare I don't want. I was moving to Linux to avoid Win 11, but what made me not cave in and just take it like I did from windows 7 to Windows 10 is the Steam Deck. When I bought one, I finally got a realistic personal experience at how easy it is to game under Linux and now I am sold. Win 10 to Win 11 isn't going to happen for me. By October I'll have Linux as my main OS and still have a Win 10 Partition in case some new game I bought needs it while a proton version gets updated.
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Syphon72: There is likely to be a boost in Linux due to SteamOS, but a widespread migration from Windows to Linux is not anticipated, except among tech-savvy gamers. Most people don’t spend much time considering which operating system they use as long as it functions properly.

Currently, Windows dominates the world PC market, controlling over 73% of it for various reasons—some of which are not good. In contrast, Linux holds just over 4% of the market share. Despite Steam's efforts to promote Linux, Windows continues to account for over 96% of steam market, with Windows 11 seeing nearly a 2% increase. Those users oblivious didn't move to Linux. They swallow the upgraded to 11 and moved on. Haha.

I'm not against Linux. Actually use Linux Mint on one of my gaming laptops, but not fully switching to Linux yet. Maybe one day.
In the end you don't need to be tech savvy and we don't need many people using Linux, to use Linux, even as a gamer or especially as a gamer. Linux has become as simple as Windows for the most part, if you are a gamer. Small amount of users just means no maleware for us.
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Syphon72: There is likely to be a boost in Linux due to SteamOS, but a widespread migration from Windows to Linux is not anticipated, except among tech-savvy gamers. Most people don’t spend much time considering which operating system they use as long as it functions properly.

Currently, Windows dominates the world PC market, controlling over 73% of it for various reasons—some of which are not good. In contrast, Linux holds just over 4% of the market share. Despite Steam's efforts to promote Linux, Windows continues to account for over 96% of steam market, with Windows 11 seeing nearly a 2% increase. Those users oblivious didn't move to Linux. They swallow the upgraded to 11 and moved on. Haha.

I'm not against Linux. Actually use Linux Mint on one of my gaming laptops, but not fully switching to Linux yet. Maybe one day.
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myconv: In the end you don't need to be tech savvy and we don't need many people using Linux, to use Linux, even as a gamer or especially as a gamer. Linux has become as simple as Windows for the most part, if you are a gamer. Small amount of users just means no maleware for us.
As someone who works in IT, even Windows can be difficult for many users. While Linux is much simpler to use nowadays, it is still slightly harder than Windows. However, I mostly agree with you.
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Palestine: Pliky had shared their own personal experience with unauthorized transfer of data to OneDrive.
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Pliky: For clarity, this hasn't happened to me. Windows 7 was the last one i used, but i like to stay up to date with tech stuff. I was talking about things i dislike about Windows 11, things i've seen many people online complaining about, either in posts, articles or videos.
Windows 7 was peak windows!