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General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
(1687 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 06, 2017
low rated
Thanks for bearing with us in this thread. We’d like to announce that today we’ve introduced the addition of new installers, with implemented GOG Galaxy client.

Like Destro described it back in May, we decided to separate the „new" and „classic” installers, for your choice. So if you don’t care about the features like achievements or cloud-saves and don’t want to use GOG Galaxy, you can download the „Classic Game Installer", just like it was handled before. For games that have new installers, the default download view on „My account” will show the "GOG Galaxy Game Installers" - you will notice that, as it is visibly described in „My account” game view. To download the „classic” ones, just go to „Options" and choose „Classic Installers”.

The new GOG Galaxy Game Installers were added to +100 games - a selection of all games that make use of GOG Galaxy features. I'll post the current list of games with the new installers in a separate post.
Going forward, all new games that will use GOG Galaxy features, will now receive both GOG Galaxy Game Installer and Classic Game Installer.

Introduction of GOG Galaxy Game Installers doesn’t change anything in terms of keeping the Classic Game Installers up to date. As soon as we receive an update for any game, we will prepare an updated version of the classic installer, just like it was done in the past.

Edit: Pinned.
Post edited July 06, 2017 by fables22
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
Thank you for responding Destro. If I might add a few comments:-

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Destro: Games have changed a lot in the past years and new titles made achievements, cloud saves and other online features become a standard rather than an extra. Sure, some do not care about these functionalities and we understand it. Having said that, we believe that if we offer games with these features advertised to the general public, then the default installation flow is expected to result in a game with these features working out of the box. This is our reasoning for including the option to install GOG Galaxy during the game installation, and we do stand by it.
It still sounds like you're confusing 2 different things. Few dispute the need for Galaxy for online stuff, but the issue is do you need the equivalent of Valve trying to download and reinstall Steam on every single game bought? Or Adobe bundling Acrobat Reader into every PDF file saved? Massive overkill and huge waste of bandwidth & storage space. Galaxy is something to be downloaded once and from then on should auto-update itself, not something that needs downloading with every single game "just in case". A more sensible solution if you're targeting newcomers to GOG is to install it upon creation of new GOG accounts (or via a link sent in a "Welcome to GOG" e-mail) and create an "idiot proof" guide to reinstalling it should they change computer (with screenshots). As mentioned yesterday, people are happy to do just that with Steam / uPlay / Origin.

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Destro: Yes, there are things which we can do better - there always are. Reading your feedback and giving it a second thought, we decided on the following:

1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
Are you saying there will be TWO versions of Offline Installers (on top of already being able to download Galaxy directly as normal)? Having to repackage then upload every game twice over on every game update sounds like a maintenance nightmare that GOG staff will probably get tired of pretty quickly and "reassess" 6 months down the line...

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Destro: 2. As mentioned earlier, we will work on making the GOG Galaxy installer smaller, but at the cost of it being online only.
I'm not sure a "middle-ground" makes any sense., You should only need to download Galaxy once and it makes more sense just to do it the same way Steam / UPlay / Origin, etc, work, by a single one-off bandwidth efficient direct download. People using Offline installers (who know what they're doing) still won't use Galaxy, and newbies will want the "proper" Galaxy, not just a cloud version which doesn't work at all offline.

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Destro: 3. We will launch the new installers in a couple of weeks once point 1 is ready. Point 2 might take a bit longer, but with the “classic” installer option available, this should not affect anyone.
As mentioned above, despite the positive tone, I don't believe this is going to last long given you're increasing your own workload for GOG staff for creating multiple "versions" of offline installers per game, per update...

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Destro: One more thing to keep in mind: everyday we fight to make more great titles available to you, DRM-free. To release many of them we must support their online features, while at the same time developers request ways to automate upload and updating games. Without GOG Galaxy we couldn't offer many of the games we offer today at all, even if you don’t use GOG Galaxy to play or update them.
I know what you're saying and personally I don't hate Galaxy or disagree with it. I do think you need to remember something though - A large chunk of GOG's branding is that you put in the effort to get old games to run. The last thing anyone wants (and the natural enemy to maximising longevity of older games) is add more "hoops to jump through" to get them to run in years to come. The "Online Only Cloud Galaxy version" you mentioned being one of them that's bound to confuse some of the same people you're trying to help simplify. There is only one Steam Client, but you seem to say there will be TWO Galaxies (one BIG and one "compact" that's online only) plus TWO versions of each off-line installer. That's really not simplifying anything for the newbies at all...
Post edited May 12, 2017 by AB2012
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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Destro: 1. [..] we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
2. As mentioned earlier, we will work on making the GOG Galaxy installer smaller, but at the cost of it being online only.
Thank you for the post, Destro.

1- can't you just add Galaxy to the list of files to download and make each game setup use that (as an opt-in)?
Duplicating the installers is a nice compromise... but also quite a mess.
2- ok, that seems better to me than adding 150Mb in each setup.

Btw, if Galaxy had an option to manage & update offline installers (properly), it would be easier for some of us to adopt it.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by phaolo
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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Destro: *snip*
Thank you! That's all I wanted to hear and I can easily live with that solution.

But the next time you plan something like that, please think it through before you go to public with a bad solution that even some of your own employees didn't like. It was clear that your plans would create a shitstorm from your most loyal users (the ones that spent thousands of dollars here) and you could have easily avoided it, by presenting a good solution right from the start. Now once again trust was lost and everytime it gets harder and harder to regain it.

And please don't spent all your energy on Galaxy (even if we all know that it is important). Maybe fix some things on the website as well (like the alphabetical sorting of the collection which is broken for years now or the missing notifications for forum replies, chat and game updates), so that we don't have to feel like second-class customers all the time.
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: Yes, there are things which we can do better - there always are. Reading your feedback and giving it a second thought, we decided on the following:
1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
2. As mentioned earlier, we will work on making the GOG Galaxy installer smaller, but at the cost of it being online only.
3. We will launch the new installers in a couple of weeks once point 1 is ready. Point 2 might take a bit longer, but with the “classic” installer option available, this should not affect anyone.
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kbnrylaec: So you want to maintain all of this below:
1. GOG Galaxy itself
2. Update new version of Galaxy-free offline installers
3. Update new version of GOG Galaxy in hundreds of offline installers for various games
4. Galaxy-only update for various games

Drop Galaxy-infested installers will make the work MUCH MUCH more easier.
I have to agree whith this also it sound a bit confusing to end user.

But it's nice to see that GOG is listening.
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
Decision-making at GOG headquarters.
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
Frankly, this has to be the least elegant solution to a problem that might not even exist. XD

How are those supposedly clueless new GOG users going to deal with the confusion of even MORE options? ;P

Why not just link to a promotion site with Galaxy downloader whenever users click on Account/Games with an optional button "No, thanks. Just take me to my game shelf" and a warning "You won't be able to use all online functions without Galaxy" or something like that, and then keep the shelf and the offline installers just as they are?

Not that this wouldn't be a hassle for those not interested in Galaxy, but it would certainly be the lesser evil, compared to this roundabout Galaxy-in-every-installer business. You could even make that promotion site a one time occurrence and store the users decision not to use Galaxy, I bet. Even if they should change their minds later on, at least then they'd already been enlightened about the existence and use of Galaxy and could find and install it on their own.
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
Thanks for listening GOG, I'm ok with “classic” installers, hope you won't change it in the future.
Posted May 12, 2017
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Gersen: Here those peoples will buy the game, download the "default" installer, install it and then be presented with the option to install Galaxy too, it will be easier for those peoples as they won't have to download Galaxy separately.
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Breja: Two things-

1) users will, before downloading, choose a version of the installer to download. How will that be different from choosing between downlading the offline installer and downloading Galaxy as it was so far? It's still the exact same choice that the user has to make. There's just a third, nonsensical option of choosing to download Galaxy with an offline installer of a game.

2) as far as I've seen from new users appearing on the forum asking questions, it's never problems with the offline installers, it's people use Galaxy and don't even know the offline installers exist.
The "classic" installers will be hidden, probably as an extra. So the default download will be installed with galaxy. I.e. when a use just selects download game, this is the version they will have

Those who want the "classic" version must actively select it from other options. Which makes sense in relation to the explanation
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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Destro: Thank you all for your posts in this topic, especially for all the constructive feedback.
Ok, first of all thank you for listening to us. Now, please listen to us more. What you propose sidesteps the immediate disaster but it increases your workflow manyfold, is bizarre and complicated, and we're not exactly confident anymore that you have our best interests in mind. This was an extremely poory thought-out idea, which you may have come to realize, and I urge you to return to the drawing board.

I can think of three suggestions on how to proceed and each of them are better than what you outline. I present to them here royalty-free in the hopes that you listen to me.

1) most obviously, forget the whole thing. It was a very bad idea that didn't go down well. My absolute favourite.

2) You already have multi-part installers. Add to them an extra part that is always named galaxy.bin. Make the installer notice if it is present, explain what it is and ASK NICELY if it should be installed at all. When you need to update galaxy, you just update this galaxy.bin, ONE FILE ON YOUR SERVERS, shared by every installer that wants it. One that NO ONE HAS TO DOWNLOAD AT ALL, is EASY TO SKIP by automated means, and DUPLICATES NO WORK for you. My second favourite.

3) Galaxy is not very useful without the network so it shouldn't be a big deal if the network is needed to install it. Instead of including Galaxy with the offline installer and defeating the whole point of offline installers in the first place, just include a screen that says "Galaxy is needed for <feature this> and <feature that>. Download and install? (requires network)". Increases installer size for maybe some kilobytes. I'll live with this.
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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Destro: 1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
Yes, this is o.k. for me. But you this approach of course is meaning that you guys would have to update two installers whenever an update needs to be made - so more work - and I really hope this will not lead to the fact that you will say "too much work to maintain both" in the future. If you really keep the classic installers updated as well I am totally all right with this approach. It could even have the benefit that game update flags (whenever they return ;)) could better indicate if there was a Galaxy only update or a real game update.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by MarkoH01
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: Thank you all for your posts in this topic, especially for all the constructive feedback.
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Rixasha: Ok, first of all thank you for listening to us. Now, please listen to us more. What you propose sidesteps the immediate disaster but it increases your workflow manyfold, is bizarre and complicated, and we're not exactly confident anymore that you have our best interests in mind. This was an extremely poory thought-out idea, which you may have come to realize, and I urge you to return to the drawing board.

I can think of three suggestions on how to proceed and each of them are better than what you outline. I present to them here royalty-free in the hopes that you listen to me.

1) most obviously, forget the whole thing. It was a very bad idea that didn't go down well. My absolute favourite.

2) You already have multi-part installers. Add to them an extra part that is always named galaxy.bin. Make the installer notice if it is present, explain what it is and ASK NICELY if it should be installed at all. When you need to update galaxy, you just update this galaxy.bin, ONE FILE ON YOUR SERVERS, shared by every installer that wants it. One that NO ONE HAS TO DOWNLOAD AT ALL, is EASY TO SKIP by automated means, and DUPLICATES NO WORK for you. My second favourite.

3) Galaxy is not very useful without the network so it shouldn't be a big deal if the network is needed to install it. Instead of including Galaxy with the offline installer and defeating the whole point of offline installers in the first place, just include a screen that says "Galaxy is needed for <feature this> and <feature that>. Download and install? (requires network)". Increases installer size for maybe some kilobytes. I'll live with this.
These solutions are pretty good.
Posted May 12, 2017
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sunshinecorp: Why have two separate installers, one bundled with Galaxy, SOMETHING EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO THE USER
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ZFR: I imagine the Galaxy one will be "default" on top, while the classic below it, or even under extras?
I am pretty sure adaliabooks will find a way to help users here with adalia fundamentals when the time has come (and he himself has enough time). He did so with GOG downloader links vs. normal download links so there should be a way to integrate this as well ... of course I cannot speak fopr him - but there is hope. :)
Post edited May 12, 2017 by MarkoH01
Posted May 12, 2017
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Leroux: Frankly, this has to be the least elegant solution to a problem that might not even exist. XD

How are those supposedly clueless new GOG users going to deal with the confusion of even MORE options? ;P
I'm starting to agree with this. The argument was that a newbie coming to the site downloading an offline installer from the site would also get a change to automatically install Galaxy for all the online features (while installing a game)... but now he will be greeted by a download page that has two different versions, Galaxy and non-Galaxy. I presume their first question is which they should download and why, and why are there two versions to begin with.

It also depends how GOG is going to list them. Are they going to do it like with Darksiders, where the new Warmastered and old Legacy installers are on the same download page one after another, or is GOG going to "hide" the classic non-Galaxy versions to the Extras in order to confuse new users less, but of course only in those cases where there is the Galaxy-embedded version to begin with...

Also I am surprised GOG is fine with the idea how this increases their own workload, but then I guess that is their problem, as long as they keep also the non-Galaxy versions up to date...

And yes, as a gogrepo user, I see this potentially as the worst solution personally. Depends how exactly they differentiate between the Galaxy and non-Galaxy versions. If this means I end up downloading always both the Galaxy-embedded and Galaxy-free version, fuck it, I would much prefer there would only be the Galaxy-embedded version. Downloading two sets of The Witcher 3 for nothing...
Posted May 12, 2017
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amok: The "classic" installers will be hidden, probably as an extra. So the default download will be installed with galaxy. I.e. when a use just selects download game, this is the version they will have

Those who want the "classic" version must actively select it from other options. Which makes sense in relation to the explanation
I guess that does make more sense. It also makes me a bit less happy with the solution, but it's still better than what was supposed to be.
Posted May 12, 2017
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Ghorpm: Are you sure that you are not absolutely certain that by choosing to skip the opportunity at this moment you may or may not at some other time try to get your personal experience by not declining the offer, which will remain optional but recommended, to willfully install the software that you might have rejected previously but at that future point it will most probably (close to certainty) be enhanced and thus not allowing yourself to experience it would be stripping you from the greater joy and thus choosing not to follow the current trend of rejection, in other words not to install GOG Galaxy? Yes? No?
just brilliant !

wait... are you just trying to get recruited/a job at gog office right under our very nose here ? :)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
(1687 posts)