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Crosmando: Actually, the real danger posed by Kickstarter to publishers isn't a money drain, but a brain drain. Seeing as AAA games development is generally a pretty shitty and underpaid industry to work in, talented programmers and creative designers could leave big companies to star their own Kickstarter projects with their own indie companies. We've already seen it happen with Banner Saga, who's developers are former Bioware employees.

This won't "kill" the publishing model, but it may result in the really creative and passionate people who love video games leaving the big companies, meaning all that will be left in games divisions are management types, with most of the code and design outsourced to cheaply paid divisions. The AAA market would become even MORE uncreative, no one would end up designing games, instead games would be made by committee design based on the most mainstream/marketable concepts.
That could very well happen.

If we are lucky, it could also be the other way around. Big publishers increase the incentives for those creative heads to work for them. Creating better games on a higher budget.

Kickstarter has certainly put the developers in a stronger position. And that can only be a good thing.
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Fake_Sketch: I know that obsidian does good games, but I cant understand why people donated more than 25 dollars. They don't give any helpful information about the game. We only know:

- Its made by obsidian.
- Its a fantasy game.
We know a bit more than that. The updates on the Kickstarter page provide more info than just what you listed.

And they'll update as time moves on as well. The thing about the kickstarter is you can pledge now and if you still aren't comfortable with the amount of info on the game by the time the deadline rolls around, you can pull your pledge at the last minute.
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Fake_Sketch: I know that obsidian does good games, but I cant understand why people donated more than 25 dollars. They don't give any helpful information about the game. We only know:

- Its made by obsidian.
- Its a fantasy game.
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Coelocanth: We know a bit more than that. The updates on the Kickstarter page provide more info than just what you listed.

And they'll update as time moves on as well. The thing about the kickstarter is you can pledge now and if you still aren't comfortable with the amount of info on the game by the time the deadline rolls around, you can pull your pledge at the last minute.
^This. I guess it's a matter of optimism vs skepticism.

Out of curiosity, where people hard on DoubleFine for saying nothing about what their game would be about for the whole campaign? I know it was so the documentary could cover all the early pre-planning stuff, but still.
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SimonG: ...
Kickstarter has certainly put the developers in a stronger position. And that can only be a good thing.
Not only this. They also get more immediate feedback about what is really successful (financially) with the fans (i.e. on the market). That's also good.
Update #5 is up:


Developing setting and atmosphere are very important to us at Obsidian. We try to build worlds that are believable even when they are fantastic. To do that, we strive to create people, cultures, and conflicts that are both strongly defined and heavily interconnected. In observing community discussion about the game, we've noted two recurring requests for more detail: on the nature of souls and on the level of this world's technology. This update deals less with culture details and more specifically with those two topics since they are fundamental to the way the world works. There's also some information at the end about a new $5,000 backer tier we're excited to introduce. Thanks for reading!

N.B.: I know I said I'd talk about mechanics today. I forgot that I had already said I'd talk about technology earlier. Sorry! The next update I do will talk about non-combat skills the nature of classes in Project Eternity.

SOULS

As we hinted at in our pitch videos, souls are A Big Deal in Project Eternity's world. The mortal world has not unlocked all of the secrets of how souls "work" and differing schools of metaphysical philosophy can be found in virtually every culture. What is known is that sapient souls move through an endless cycle of waking life and purgatorial slumber among the gods. Often this slumber lasts for years of "real" time, but occasionally it is brief, with a soul immediately moving on to a new life.

Far from being a flawless process, souls are subject to "fracturing" over generations, transforming in myriad ways, and not quite... working right. Some cultures and individuals place a high value on "strong" souls, souls with a "pure" lineage, "awakened" souls that remember past lives, "traveled" souls that have drifted through the divine realms, or those that co-exist with other souls in one body. However, the opposite is also true, resulting in negative discrimination and sometimes outright violence.

Through a variety of techniques (e.g. martial training, meditation, ritualistic evocation, mortification of the flesh), some individuals are able to draw upon the energy of their soul to accomplish extraordinary feats. These abilities range from the mundanely superhuman to the explosively magical. Having a strong soul seems to make this easier, but sometimes even people with fragmented souls are able to accomplish the extraordinary. The individual's body seems to act as a conduit and battery for this power, drawing in replenishment from seemingly omnipresent "fields" of unbound spiritual energy in the world around them.

Thinkers, spiritualists, and scientists of the world have theorized for thousands of years about the nature and purpose of this process, but others have turned to prayer for answer. Rather than illuminate the presumed higher purpose of this cycle, the gods have obfuscated the truth, at times spreading cosmological lies, pitting believers and empowered chosen agents against each other, and tacitly approving the prejudices of their followers to maintain power.

Whatever the fundamental nature of mortal souls is, the people of the world accept the reality of what they have observed: that all mortal bodies contain perceptible energy bound to the individual, and that once they die, their energy will move forward in the eternal cycle that they are all a part of -- that as far as they know, they have always been a part of.

TECHNOLOGY

The cultures of Project Eternity are in a variety of different technological states. Though some remote civilizations are still in the equivalent of Earth's Stone Age or Bronze Age, most large civilizations are in the equivalent of Earth's high or late Middle Ages. The most aggressive and powerful civilizations are in the early stages of what would be our early modern period, technologically, even if they are not culturally undergoing "Renaissance"-style changes.
For most large civilizations, this means that all of the core arms and armor of medieval warfare have reached a high level of development: full suits of articulated plate armor, a variety of military swords, war hammers, polearms, longbows, crossbows, and advanced siege weaponry. Architecturally, these cultures also employ technologies found in Earth's Gothic structures, allowing them to create towering vertical structures.

The most recent technologies seeing use in the world are ocean-going carrack-style ships and black powder firearms (notably absent: the printing press). Cultures with large navies and mercantile traffic are exploring the world, which has led to contact with previously-unknown lands and societies and settlement in new lands. Despite their intense drive, these explorers have been restricted from aggressive long-range exploration by monstrous sea creatures that pose a lethal, seemingly insurmountable threat to even the stoutest, most well-armed ships.

Black powder firearms are of the single-shot wheellock variety. Largely considered complex curiosities, these weapons are not employed extensively by military forces. Their long reload times are considered a liability in battles against foes that are too monstrous to drop with a single volley, foes that fly or move at high speed, and foes that have the power of invisibility. Despite this, some individuals do employ firearms for one specific purpose: close range penetration of the arcane veil, a standard magical defense employed by wizards. The arcane veil is powerful, but it does not react well to the high-velocity projectiles generated by arquebuses and handguns. As a result, more wizards who previously relied on the veil and similar abjurations have turned to traditional armor for additional defense.

New $5,000 Tier

Bam! We started with a $5,000 tier that allowed the backer to set up an inn and receive some additional items. Fortunately or unfortunately, that sold out almost immediately. We've come up with a new tier that is aimed toward (but not limited to!) the forum communities that have shown (and continue to show) us so much support. Some of the most fun we've had as players, DMs, and game designers has happened when we got to deal with a group of enemy adventurers -- mercenaries, thugs, whatever you want to call them -- squaring off against the party. This new tier allows you to build a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude to throw at the player. We've also switched around a few of the bonuses in this tier, giving out more digital downloads. We can't wait to see what you come up with.

That's all for this update! Tomorrow we'll have some words from Chris Jones about the technology we're using to build Project Eternity.
Post edited September 20, 2012 by Coelocanth
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Coelocanth: Update #5 is up:
Maybe I'll wait for more details.
The Renaissancy thing makes me think of Lionheart; maybe done right?
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ShadowWulfe: Maybe I'll wait for more details.
The Renaissancy thing makes me think of Lionheart; maybe done right?
Well, it say that culturally they're not 'Renaissancy'. It's just that the technology is a little more advanced than what you find in most stock fantasy settings.
I'm still awaiting gog to bring the news on the front page.....
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LordCrash: I'm still awaiting gog to bring the news on the front page.....
Yeh, I'm hoping this doesn't represent some sort of last-minute problem.
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MichaelPalin: For our Mac friends, we are still working on a DRM free option, since GOG does not currently support the Mac.

Any news on gog.com working on Mac and GNU/Linux? Every day that passes this will be more necessary gog, those markets are increasing continually and Windows 8 will only make them bigger.
So very true. The Humble Bundle, Kickstarter, and Steam are only aiding in this. Please don't be left behind, GOG, for you are my favorite digital retailer.
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bazilisek: I don't know about that. Don't forget about the psychological effect of a payment that comes at least a year in advance.
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SimonG: I think the problem is that people will be expecting the same technical quality as the games those people made with big money backing. And that is just impossible.

I don't care if Project eternity looks like a bad indie game, as long as it has other qualities.

But considering how fast gamers are jumping on "console ports" I especially await a rude awakening for the Shadowrun game.

You and I udge a game for what it is, and not for what it isn't. But a look around this forum shows we are the minority.
Ironically I expect the Wasteland and Shadowrun games to be the most likely to succeed and the most awesome to boot. Out of all the ones I've pledged for (all but about one from lowy's list) I'm pretty certain this Obsidian one is on the most shaky legs so far. It's been a long time since anyone launched a KS gaming project with so little information or planning seeming to have gone into it. Obsidian seems to have issues getting their games out the door on time and with the requisite quality. I actually think the biggest disappointment will be the game that just never arrives, we should all know by now that at least 1 or 2 of these will be no shows for whatever reason.

I've already said my vote's this one for most likely to fail. Everyone probably has one or two in mind that they feel won't make it. Still, I think the communities may get something regardless, assets, a game editor that people may be able to make some short games with, etc. But maybe not the full games...
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Fake_Sketch: I know that obsidian does good games, but I cant understand why people donated more than 25 dollars. They don't give any helpful information about the game. We only know:

- Its made by obsidian.
- Its a fantasy game.
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Coelocanth: We know a bit more than that. The updates on the Kickstarter page provide more info than just what you listed.

And they'll update as time moves on as well. The thing about the kickstarter is you can pledge now and if you still aren't comfortable with the amount of info on the game by the time the deadline rolls around, you can pull your pledge at the last minute.
No, he's mainly right, though, the game was basically funded without any of those updates having gone out. Now that they're talking I have little certainty that this amounts to more than napkin doodles, I'm unconvinced anyone at Obsidian had anything more than the barest outlines of an idea for this before launching.
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Gazoinks: Out of curiosity, where people hard on DoubleFine for saying nothing about what their game would be about for the whole campaign? I know it was so the documentary could cover all the early pre-planning stuff, but still.
Sort of, DoubleFine was the "first" of these high profile game projects on KS. Checkpoint mockingly pointed out how DF got so much with "we're gonna make a game" and dozens of other projects with elaborate details and work samples requiring something like 20k languished and never funded at all.

Since DF and everyone started launching "me too!" projects, most KS projects have realized they can't trade on pure enthusiasm, they need details, there's more people doing it now. Obsidian is a big name and can obviously glide along on that quite a bit, but they seriously had appallingly little info for a KS video game project. Yes, it's been a fast evolution, but these projects did evolve in format since DF did theirs, Obsidian is definitely bucking the trend.
Post edited September 20, 2012 by orcishgamer
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orcishgamer: No, he's mainly right, though, the game was basically funded without any of those updates having gone out. Now that they're talking I have little certainty that this amounts to more than napkin doodles, I'm unconvinced anyone at Obsidian had anything more than the barest outlines of an idea for this before launching.
Oh. I'm not arguing that the information is rather... sparse. I was just pointing out that there's certainly more info than just "It's a fantasy RPG" and "It's being made by Obsidian".

I personally think they've actually been working on this thing (maybe not in code, but in concept, background, art direction, story, quests, etc - basically a watchacallit - a design document) for some time and this is what they're basing their game on. I'm thinking it's been a pet project for some of these guys for a while and they couldn't get funding for it not because it was too nebulous an idea but because of the nature of the game itself (old-school isometric RPG). SO I'm of the feeling that they have more info but are just going to parcel it out a bit at a time in order to keep the interest high.
In the case of Obsidian, they already had the reputation and pedigree, so they can get away with much more than most other kickstarter projects when it comes to details. We are already acquainted with previous projects their staff had a hand in:

Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas
Baldur's Gate I & II
Planescape Torment
Alpha Protocol
Neverwinter Nights 2
Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2
Arcanum
Vampire: Bloodlines

With their people having a consistent record for what kind of game that they do, is it any surprise that donators are willing to trust Obsidian? Sure, they tend to buggy and unfinished, but they have a specific style when it comes to roleplay that is unlikely to be found elsewhere.
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Sabin_Stargem: In the case of Obsidian, they already had the reputation and pedigree, so they can get away with much more than most other kickstarter projects when it comes to details. We are already acquainted with previous projects their staff had a hand in:

Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas
Baldur's Gate I & II
Planescape Torment
Alpha Protocol
Neverwinter Nights 2
Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2
Arcanum
Vampire: Bloodlines
Icewind Dale I and II, not Baldur's Gate I & II.
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orcishgamer: Ironically I expect the Wasteland and Shadowrun games to be the most likely to succeed and the most awesome to boot. Out of all the ones I've pledged for (all but about one from lowy's list) I'm pretty certain this Obsidian one is on the most shaky legs so far. It's been a long time since anyone launched a KS gaming project with so little information or planning seeming to have gone into it. Obsidian seems to have issues getting their games out the door on time and with the requisite quality. I actually think the biggest disappointment will be the game that just never arrives, we should all know by now that at least 1 or 2 of these will be no shows for whatever reason.

I've already said my vote's this one for most likely to fail. Everyone probably has one or two in mind that they feel won't make it. Still, I think the communities may get something regardless, assets, a game editor that people may be able to make some short games with, etc. But maybe not the full games...

---

No, he's mainly right, though, the game was basically funded without any of those updates having gone out. Now that they're talking I have little certainty that this amounts to more than napkin doodles, I'm unconvinced anyone at Obsidian had anything more than the barest outlines of an idea for this before launching.
Looking at the map, which is one of the only things they gave early on, I see kitschy fantasy, and kitschy fantasy is where I'm setting my expectations. On the other hand, I like Obsidian, I like the people behind it, and I want them to be able to succeed without the pressures which killed Troika and have hindered Obsidian in its early life. Plus, American dollars are like Monopoly money, and I'm not going to miss $35 - it fits comfortably within the price range I'm willing to pay, and is well below what companies routinely ask for, which is outside of what I'm willing to pay. Even if Eternity isn't great, it'll still have been worth $35, and they only asked for $25.

(For what it's worth, Arcanum had one of the kitschiest maps I've ever seen, but it turned out to be one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played.)
Post edited September 20, 2012 by Damuna