Mmm...no. At best you're pulling that by skipping over the obvious and reading too much into the lack of carriage return.

I mean I think it's implied that Wyrm is implying "I think Ix will flip scum. If he does I turn next to Stan."

That is kinda Occam's Razor here, right?

If by "interesting", you mean "thinks that the two of you might be scum together", then yes!

Should I find it interesting that you didn't make any commentary on my usage of the word "currently"? As in, I might change my mind later, such as when you flip? :P

Since I apparently opened the door, for the record I think it's extremely unlikely Wyrm is town alignment cop who happened to peek scum N0, danced around it for half the day, claimed something something about Masons, only to carefully slide onto wagon of said scum he peeked without just confirming his peek only to make a slip about it. :)

Would be incredibly amusing, but among other problems would require him, as cop, having been willing to invite both LAL-lynch by town (esp. since his false cop claims as scum are myriad) as well as raising his NK profile.

Was just making the point that logically that's really the only scenario where town!wyrm has made any "slip" of interest in that post. Agree it is quite unlikely.

But appreciate the chuckle working through how that would have come to pass.

Core point is I just don't see a slip there as a logical premise unless one presumes something outrageous, and under which he's town anyway.

Personally I'm assuming he's Town Bodyguard of Masonist. (little inside joke there)

Meh. Wyrm said something similar.

I haven't read her scum game, so this is just a guess but I suspect wolf!stan does not go about a D1 teammate defense in quite this way.

My perception is that she's used to ...more sophisticated or at least subtle wolfing. Which, if town, I think is why she's not buying the premise that Ix is just floundering and waiting for the problem to go away on it's <Look, squirrel!>.

Possible, sure. "probably"? Ehhh...I don't really buy that.

Actually, I'm Town Bulletproof Berserker Cop Mason. With a couple of Vig shots. Don't tell anyone. ;)

I apologize for not coming back yesterday to finish my thoughts. It was a long day and I got sidetracked by video games for longer than I expected when I got home. Whoops.

I have a couple comments/questions and then I'll get to the thoughts, which will probably continue to be a bit broken up.

Nacho - why did you ask for trent's guidance and who his top three suspects were when you started catching up the other day?

Lx - you said that part of what you suspected about the new people was the reliance on iso's. Who is doing the iso's that you found suspicious? Also, are you new to Mafia?

Stanari - what has lx done so town that made you say that you'd be impressed if they were scum?

While I don't do ordered lists myself, I never have I probably never will my mind doesn't work or see Mafia that way, I don't understand the argument that doing so makes a roadmap that makes it easier for scum. It's a pretty naive assumption to think Mafia works that way. I have never seen lists work that way in a Mafia game. The only time it's come close is when people form those too,ish town blocks early which they refuse to reassess and just agree with each other's reads. But that's not the case here.

The discussion on the last page was a things that make you go huh moment. I didn't follow some of it and didn't much care for some of the interpretations, mainly those coming from lx, which is why I want to know if he's new. The accusation to bler about his point making them look like partners and the admonishment to Wyrm about his lynch preferences when it's extreme,lay obvious he was sharing his preferences in order for right now as he's been asking everyone to do. Misunderstandings aren't scummy, but those have me shaking my head.

Wyrm - I'm not following nachos lead, but your push there was something I didn't like from you and I was trying to figure out if you were town with unreasonable expectations for what others should know about the information you have or scum who is playing up that aspect because it's something you can legitimately argue against as scum are often wont to do. I think you and I are talking past each other or maybe I'm not being clear for why it troubled me. I thought it was unreasonable for you to expect that he should be able to divine it was recent information you got, considering both that it is unusual to receive information as the game goes along and as far as I know the two of you have never played together. At the moment I'm sort of leaning townie with unreasonable expectations for what someone else should be able to know and interpret, but that mostly comes from something I'll talk about in a bit when I give my thoughts on a few more people.

I thought I had something else, maybe I'll remember in a bit.

Sucks you didn't get Governor too. What a rip-off.


Are you willing to make a more explicit case for why you're reading Ix as town? Think I get your trent/lift reads, whether or not I agree, but this one still flummoxes me a bit.

What's your read on Quad? good/bad/indifferent it appears you haven't mentioned him at all.


Plan aside, what's your read on ...IDK pick anyone besides docbear. How about Lift?

He's been playing much longer than me. Someone mentioned flub's "milk" game (game #25, and he was mafia) earlier which was Dec 2014. But he's been playing at least that long.

That said, he's an intermittent player so it's not like he's playing 12 games a year.

Here's a post of him [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_25_terror_at_tres_leches/post833 ]commenting on the badness of lists [/url] in the milk game.

In that post he mentions having run a game already, so...yeah, probably longer than that. Roughly 4 games in the last year maybe? Need to finish something before I leave work so don't want to lug through and check them all.

Want more content from Ix please.

But he's not doing nothing; almost every post he's made has attracted attention. This is like the exact opposite of scared, conciliatory scum.

Your mindset is very much relevant to this game. (I mean in the mafia context of rationality in case that wasn't clear.) ???

It kind of is.

Motive, as someone said, is conscious; something you have the intent of causing to occur. Mindset is more...an overarching approach to the game, I suppose, stuff I usually lump in with tone and mood. This is not a scientific distinction, and they inform one another.

Coming back to this.

I can't tell you with any degree of reliability what I'd do in an unfamiliar meta but I do tend to bus vulnerable teammates a little too hastily.

I have played with my fair share of inexperienced wolves, but I've been burned by underestimating them before. I don't think this is what floundering looks like though.

He doesn't appear to care about appearance/consensus. Which is admittedly an exploitable tell.

Yes/probably/maybe.

Quad is...eh. Largely not on my radar, though at this point in the game that is a distinctly bad thing.

Should clarify - this means I am willing to but may not get around to it immediately.

-

It's a perfectly good reason for a vote in certain contexts and this is one of them. I'm never entirely serious nor entirely joking.

I mean. I'm glad you didn't let me get away with what was, from your perspective, a non-answer, but from my perspective, that told you all you needed to know. Well yeah every game basically! Do you vote everyone who votes a townread and townreads a scumread? No? Okay then. You really don't know me very well lol. Again, not an evasion. Why the heck would I not defend someone I was townreading? O__o Think harder.

For point of reference, I mentioned game #25 - that was my first game.
Players who started playing prior to that: Lift, Ixam, RWarehall, Quad, yogs, trent
bookwyrm and bler joined not long after that
dessimu is newer but has solid experience as both town/scum

Brasas has not played much mafia but is old hat at Resistance. I don't think we have a scum game for comparison.
docbear's first game was our last full game.

Quad and Ixam's participation is more sporadic than the rest. At least since I started.

Time to walk the dog, will catch-up after that.

I'm officially someone! Hooray! I'll have to think about that mindset thing - I don't tend to think about the game in quite that way. Perhaps because my own mindset isn't quite that tightly organized. I just have a series of motives. ;)

Was a slow pitch since I was too lazy to come up with a more incisive question - only really notable if you'd said something else. :)

Nice guy, can play smart and add insight when he's committed, but...

I'd noted way back in my summary post that I thought Quad and Agent were the two most likely to lurk to the point that they just don't sort through play, with Ix as third most likely.

Though as much as I don't like much of what Ix is contributing, he is, y'know, now here and trying to do something.

So let me adapt the question a bit. If I told you there was a 90% chance what you've seen of Quad is what you were going to see from him going forward, how would you approach it? Might be VT, might be town PR, might be non-town. If you're town, how long do you let him float before pushing and/or straight POEing him?

Switching gears, though tangential, I'm standing pat for now. Before creating any new waves I want to see more from RW and Dess, want to see Ix do something besides just sit on no lynch and play grumpy defense, and want to see how Fox/Drealmer resolve that whole situation.

But a decent D1 overall.

Oh right. I went to it mis-remembering someone saying it was "his" first game, not "my" first. My own first game was #28 which was last July. We do have long games if game #25 started the prior December!

Off for a bit.

I usually don't start to give lurkers serious consideration until two/three/four mislynches in, depending on game size. Here it's probably two.

The group begins to gather at the community home around 2pm. Morning work is done, lunch has been had, and there was even a little leisure time for whatever might have interested each of you on this day before you had to start gathering to discuss things.

A handful of you have arrived so far and you await the others. One of you asks the others "Does anyone know what is up with Jay? He's barely said a word these past weeks."

"I have no idea. Did you see his hand? It looks awful, I don't know why he didn't get it looked at as soon as that happened. It makes no sense!" says another.

"Forget his hand! Look at his face, he looks pale and sickly, I'm not sure he's up for the task at hand." There is a slight chuckle.

More villagers arrive, and then the rest, except Jay. They begin to discuss things as they normally do, without him, and then they discuss him, without him, which they were really wishing to avoid, but now it is unavoidable.

"What should we do about him? We're all at least making some degrees of effort to work together and figure out what is going on, but he seems totally un-invested, uninterested, and I'm starting to think he's more a burden than an asset to what we're trying to accomplish" someone says, and others show that they share a similar sentiment.

Just then, a door opens and everyone turns. Of course, it's Jay, late as usual. He heads right over to a table with food on it and starts grabbing rolls and nuts and stuffing them into his face. He sees a hunk of roasted chicken breast someone had brought from their lunch and grabs it and shoves it into his face. Then, as if he is perplexed as to why he's not hearing any discussion going on, he looks up, and sees you all looking at him, as if you're awaiting an explanation, not only for his lateness, but for his behavior the past weeks.

With a mouth full of enough for three mouth fulls he speaks. "Wha-?" The word barely fits out of his mouth.

One of the villagers approaches him and, in a calm voice says. "Jay, we're going to have to ask you to pack up and leave, at least for now. We've possibly got a serious situation on our hands, and we are trying to figure out what to do. You aren't helping. Why did you stay behind if you weren't going to help?" The question is obviously rhetorical and he continues on without pausing for a response.

"Leave. Go to Nashua and wait with the rest of the villagers to hear from us that it is okay to return. Tell everyone we say hello and give them our best. Tell them we are really trying to figure out what to do, but we're not sure of anything yet."

Jay takes a few chews so he can actually say something somewhat coherently to them all. "Well, okay then. BYE!" He grabs a couple more rolls, stuffs them into his pockets, and leaves. He doesn't even shut the door on his way out and one of the villagers has to go close it after he is gone.

You all return to the discussion as if he never stayed behind in the first place.

Jason (Jay) Peterson is gone and no one knows what happened to him. (SirCrimsonFox has been mod-killed and loses the game HARD.)