Posted September 12, 2016
**Risking merge-post again. GoG seems to be not letting me post anything with an embedded quote. 2nd fail here, triple-checked tags and everything. :(
@Wyrm (#482) - on the issue of testing mechanics, personally I think it's at least mostly apparently already. Drealmer is going to let us mess around for part of mid-day. Once he posts a vote count (triggered by time, or x players voting more likely) from that point on non-votes count as no-lynch.
I highly doubt he is going to spring a big surprise on us that ends with us accidentally falling into no lynch (wrote "no lunch" - the horrors!) or even sundown without some caution that it's becoming a potential.
@trent - on the reads list issue, I agree with cristi's response to you.
I know what you're describing is another GoG mafia staple, but like cristi I watched several of the MU games this summer, and while I was already on the fence about the value of holding all one's cards, being careful to not list who looks townie because mafia aren't smart enough to figure out who to kill unless we point it out for them, etc., that observing definitely pushed me to the side of thinking our GoG way is sub-optimal.
Put it out there, and expect others to do the same.
What you're describing is great for a "me-town" game ("Don't want to tip my super awesome read!") but it ignores that the rest of town may not see (or buy) what you're seeing anyway, and the bigger issue is that what you describe ignores the dynamic of what the expectation of posting reads list does to a scum player. scum-you benefits more from low expectations and concealing info than town-you does.
If town is playing even reasonably well, it creates more data to talk about, and sure, it does require town players to tip at least part of their hand, but scum have to put something on record they can potentially be held to later.
Or at least that's the hope.
E.g. imagine a scenario where I am mafia and my reads list is "Wyrm town, Lift neutral" (simplifying). End of day rolls along and the two wagons turn out to be wyrm/lift and I vote wyrm. Someone doing a read can say "wait a minute, explain how you got from A to Z there." Or alternatively I have Wyrm slight scum and then at the end of the day have him as strong town with no explanation.
Someone can then ask me, what was your progression?
There are trade-offs, certainly, but I'm wholly convinced the balance is slightly town-positive, and also, it's activity-positive, which we often desperately need.
Will make a full-ish reads list later, in that vein, probably tonight.
@Wyrm (#482) - on the issue of testing mechanics, personally I think it's at least mostly apparently already. Drealmer is going to let us mess around for part of mid-day. Once he posts a vote count (triggered by time, or x players voting more likely) from that point on non-votes count as no-lynch.
I highly doubt he is going to spring a big surprise on us that ends with us accidentally falling into no lynch (wrote "no lunch" - the horrors!) or even sundown without some caution that it's becoming a potential.
@trent - on the reads list issue, I agree with cristi's response to you.
I know what you're describing is another GoG mafia staple, but like cristi I watched several of the MU games this summer, and while I was already on the fence about the value of holding all one's cards, being careful to not list who looks townie because mafia aren't smart enough to figure out who to kill unless we point it out for them, etc., that observing definitely pushed me to the side of thinking our GoG way is sub-optimal.
Put it out there, and expect others to do the same.
What you're describing is great for a "me-town" game ("Don't want to tip my super awesome read!") but it ignores that the rest of town may not see (or buy) what you're seeing anyway, and the bigger issue is that what you describe ignores the dynamic of what the expectation of posting reads list does to a scum player. scum-you benefits more from low expectations and concealing info than town-you does.
If town is playing even reasonably well, it creates more data to talk about, and sure, it does require town players to tip at least part of their hand, but scum have to put something on record they can potentially be held to later.
Or at least that's the hope.
E.g. imagine a scenario where I am mafia and my reads list is "Wyrm town, Lift neutral" (simplifying). End of day rolls along and the two wagons turn out to be wyrm/lift and I vote wyrm. Someone doing a read can say "wait a minute, explain how you got from A to Z there." Or alternatively I have Wyrm slight scum and then at the end of the day have him as strong town with no explanation.
Someone can then ask me, what was your progression?
There are trade-offs, certainly, but I'm wholly convinced the balance is slightly town-positive, and also, it's activity-positive, which we often desperately need.
Will make a full-ish reads list later, in that vein, probably tonight.