switching to Twilight tomorrow night before I go to bed, will give notice as I can as that approaches

anywhere from 8-24 hrs from now

Well, or killing you. But there really wasn't any solid way around the problem that, if town, you're the most likely to bite it tonight and without some organization it could be anybody with equal odds.

At least this way the only people who can kill you with impunity are me, tammy, cristi.

You know, unless yogs is ninja or successfully gambles that tammy was 1x. Or trent is strongman. But both of those are longer-odds scenarios. So if cristi is wolf I think she has to think very carefully about killing anyone, particularly you.

If she kills trent it opens the pool of potential killers to me/tammy/her/you. So killing trent is less risky than killing you.

But yeah, I suggested switching trent/yogs in that equation b/c of the two, if she is inclined to kill someone I have yogs > trent as town.

Which I'll probably regret. Again.

Unvote
vote nachomamma8

I forget, is this one of the games I'm playing where everybody knows I'm vanilla Town, or is the the one where nobody knows I'm vanilla Town?

Whatever bler says. That. Let's do that.

vote nachomamma8

This is possibly telling. You seem to be assuming we are going into the night. Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

I believe Nacho is wolf. If he flips wolf, the game might well be over. Which would mean we have a 5-man wolf team or 2 teams of 3 and SirCrimsonFox was one of the wolves. I hope this is the case because I don't want to believe Stanari is scum, but if the game is not over...

If we are still playing then either one of two things must be true:
1. There is a remaining wolf (probably 2 teams and SitrCrimsonFox was not a wolf)
2. We have a SK

I can’t think of a third option that I can buy (i.e. more than one anti-town left)

I find it unlikely we have a SK. I don’t think it fits with my win condition. I don’t think it’s impossible because hey, if drealmer will put 2 survivors in a game, can’t totally rule it out. However, I think Occam’s razor points to the first option – a remaining wolf.

I believe Tammy is telling the truth. Everyone believed she was town, no reason to claim neutral when she did. Whatever Ixam was, he didn’t find anything suspicious when he visited. If she is lying about this, I am happy to lose to her. The same with bler. For me, these two are off the table.

Which leaves Stanari, trent, and yogs. Stanari jumped from the bottom of my list to the top of my list as most likely to be a wolf with Nacho (and a third, Rwarehall?). For a two-man remaining wolf team to have a good chance to win, they need to both survive the day. Stanari has been defending Nacho, even after Tammy specified that she had cleared her information with the mod. This looks to me like scum trying to preserve their best chance to win. I also find it suspicious that she was the one to request I make my night target public.

If we are still playing and Stanari is not the remaining wolf, yogs is my next guess. Both trent and yogs got off my wagon when I claimed. If they were scum, I’m not sure either one would do that. However, if Stanari is town, yogs is the one most likely to bus a buddy.

If somehow, Nacho flips town, I’m lost as to what’s going on. I’ll apologize to Nacho and finally consider drealmer is playing with us. I will gladly block whoever bler and Tammy suggest. Personally, I don’t think anyone else should have a say.

I am considering what bler has suggested. If he can find a way to post again, I would like him to spell out what route he is suggesting for clarity. But I would like him to consider what happens if Stanari is scum. I block his suggestion (not Stanari) , Stanari has an open shot and then she can lie about who I visited. I would also like to know Tammy's thought's, if possible.

BTW, @MU players, would like to add to bler, I truly enjoy playing with you and I’m glad you joined the game. I did not intend to play our next mafia game due to time restrictions. Glad I did.

Nice shade-throwing there, cristi. I'll happily refute it if I live to tomorrow.

Do you think I'm wolf with Nacho or that it's singleball, hmm?

I really really dislike how that reads even after correcting for omgus-bias.

it is now:

TWILIGHT -

votes are LOCKED! A decision has been made! A LYNCH is about to be held (or not!) - You may continue to converse until the NIGHT post is made.

But I like you.

If the game does not end with Nacho's lynch and he flips wolf, I think you're wolf with Nacho. RWarehall is probably the third in your group if we're dealing with 2 teams. Assuming Nacho flips wolf your defense of him feels like an attempt to push the lynch off of him. Isn't that what you were trying to do?

If the game ends here, I apologize, I was wrong. If it doesn't end and Nacho was town, I also apologize, you are more likely town. If it doesn't end and Nacho is wolf, you seem like the most obvious remaining wolf.

hubbajubba

Somehow yogs concurring with my plan (didn't he already say that?) is making me paranoid.

FWIW (re: stan v. cristi), I don't _know_ that we'll have another night, but it's a fairly safe assumption. Even if nacho flips wolf it seems highly unlikely he was w/w with Lift. Will read those two posts more carefully overnight, I guess.

Maybe we'll get lucky and it was RW/Fox/Nacho and Dess/Lift/Brasas, I guess, but I wouldn't exactly hold my breath on that.

Still, for better or worse, Drealmer's behavior (no attempt to clear up night action confusion) tends to confirm imo there was something between tammy/nacho N2, or else tammy is lying her butt off.

And I really don't believe that (though it would be hilarious if she were town claiming neutral). Not sure how else he could've handled it, but ushering the game into evening and then sundown doesn't exaclty speak to mod "Oh shit!" moment, at the least.

We don't really have the personnel for a solid defense, so I proposed what I did to minimize our exposures - the downside is that if the scum setup falls in those holes, then they only have to fear someone deviating. So probably best no one with a PR actually confirms tonight if they're in/out with the plan, and make your own best call.

No one's liable to kill tams, and no one is killing or otherwise visiting me most likely, unless they're very bold or loaded for bear. With Stan's claim, there's no point in Tammy sitting on Stan, etc.

D4 we collect reports, and NK data, and then try and piece together what is both feasible and what is most likely.

Eh, keep in mind it could have been fox in that setup as the 3rd (though would have to explain why the game is still running). Likewise I have trent slightly > stan for nacho partner in terms of overall game activity (the odd exchange about nacho's entrance, trent's vote of no lynch over Nacho D1 when Nacho was just hours from modkill territory, the lack of pushing, etc.

Considering I was the one hammering the nacho case when pretty much everyone else was on cristi, I'm about the only one I'd say is really "clear" for Rw teammate.

My laptop screen is busted so I can't actually read what I just typed very well, so...

will be back on a real computer Tue evening, though if the night lasts a whole week again I'll likely be back on this p.o.s. next weekend.

December 23, 1696 -

It's been a long day for the seven remaining villagers, there have been a few astounding revelations, and no one is sure what to think anymore. Over the months there have been many times of fear and doubt, and there have been times of confidence and triumph. But most of all there has been loss. The losses ache deeply for everyone, and it doesn't feel at all like an outsider might think, thwarting and extracting evil from their lives to purify and make things better. No, instead it just feels like the loss of friends, loved ones, and respected fellow villagers, and no amount of reminding themselves that their friends were werewolves is going to be able to change that. Their losses are holes that will never be filled.

Emily stands and speaks to her fellow villagers. "Okay, friends, as painful as it is, we've got to bring this day to an end." Her voice is soft and comforting as she consoles you all towards your final decision.

"Yes, I really do think it's time, as much as it hurts." Eric echoes her sentiments. He stands at her side and puts his arm around her. "I know you didn't have a choice but to stay, mom, but I am glad you were here with us through it all."

"Yes, we've got to get on with it. For the security and future of the village," Marie says almost to herself, looking down at her hands with a face ten times more weary than any of her fellows. These months have not been kind to her, she wishes she would not have stayed behind, but truly, she was such a driving force for the village, she should be proud of her contributions, and the village should certainly be glad she stayed. She stands and joins them.

"There really is no other choice as far as I see it. I'm sorry, Fergus, it's got to be you." Claire joins them.

They turn and look to Justin. He sighs, hesitant. He looks over at his good friend. "Is it true?" Fergus does not respond. Justin approaches him. "Look me in the eye. Tell me, man. Is it true? Are you really a werewolf?"

Fergus looks him in the eye, "No, it is not. I am not!" He turns to the others. "You all hurt me by thinking such a thing is possible. And to want me dead. I just..." He drops his head, sighs, then looks back up at Justin. They all look on at him, waiting for him to finish...and then, faster than any of them could have imagined, he turns and runs.

Reactively, they're quickly after him, but he is fast and out the door before they're halfway across the room. As they all run out the exit and down the stairs, they see Fergus in the clearing under the Full Moon light, and he has already begun to shift. He's looking back at them as he transforms, and as he does he presents a challenge:

"Try and catch me!" He runs. There is no possible way for them to catch him. He is too fast. Yes, Justin could track him for a time, but it is snowing and the tracks would be sure to cover up long before he could ever catch the man. No, he is long gone, forever.

"I don't think he'll ever be back." Says one of the villagers.

"No, I don't think he will either." Confirms another.


Fergus (Perky Fergy) Perkins is DEAD. He was a Werewolf.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Well. Now what?"

"Yeah, I mean, that was the last of them right? There couldn't have been MORE than that. Could there?"

"I don't know, could there be?"

"Well, I'M not one!" Says Marie.

"Me either!" Says Emily.

"Neither am I!" Says Justin.

"Me either!" Says Eric.

"No way I am!" Says Claire.

"No way I am either!" Says Sarah.

You all declare yourselves to NOT be werewolves.

"Sooo, is the village clear of threats?"

"I think there is only one way to be sure."

"You're right."

"Yeah, you're right."

"Okay then!"

You all agree. You must sleep one more full moon night in the village to see if any further threats reveal themselves. If none do, then you can be quite confident you have eliminated all threats and send word to Nashua for the rest of the villagers to return.

"We'll meet at daybreak and see if we all remain alive then."

You all depart and head to your homes.

It is NIGHT -

there is: NO POSTING AT NIGHT

The group of you gathers one last time at The Community Home.

All of you that watched Fergus run away in the night are gathered. No one has died. Nothing bad has happened. The village is safe.

The group of you set to writing a letter together to send to Nashua to tell the rest of the villagers that it is safe to return. Even though it is the dead of winter, you are sure they will come back promptly.

------------------------------------------------

The game has ended favorably for the villagers of Oakwood Village!!!

NO SHARING OF QT LINKS!!! - these are private chat sessions between players and the moderators and are NEVER to be shared, please keep them private between us forever, thank you! You can talk about whatever you like, just don't share the links.

some of this is covered in the observer chat to varying degrees, but I wanted to be comprehensive here and don't expect you to go read me bitch in the observer chat for 250 posts to get the shit that matters

#1. SirCrimsonFox -

I came to the thread and he had made 2 post-edits. I thought "Okay, he's new to the forums, they're apparently merges, I wasn't going to sweat it. Then he said he chopped something or the like? something I took to maybe mean he removed something, which is not cool, but, again, I was just willing to play it cool and not worry about it too much, early game, new guy, I don't want to be too much of a hardass because I was already being a bit of a hardass about my unusual rules. But then I still felt I had to penalize him very minorly since he did it twice and didn't show much regard for caring that he did.

Also, the rules were posted WAYY in advance of the game at signups, and there is a rule that notes the post merges and editing issue. A post SCF made seemed to show that he was not aware of the post merging qualities of these forums, and that showed me it was possible he either didn't read the rules, or had forgotten that part of the rules.

If he didn't read the rules, I had to make sure he read the rules, if he forgotten that part, I needed to remind him and ask him to re-read the rules in case there's anything else important he may have forgotten. I penalized him with a 1-handed typing penalty and asked him to let me know that he received my message and read back over the rules.

My intention was that AS SOON as he responded to me, with pretty much anything, even just an "okay", I was going to remove his posting restriction and move on. He never responded. I messaged him trying to get a response. No response. I had JMich contact him, because as far as I knew, he was possibly not even receiving my/any messages, and I needed to know. Never a response.

I never got a single response from him in regards to anything, ever since his signup. JMich got no response. He was gone for days, I had to warn him about posting frequency. I gave him plenty of time, and even felt I was a bit lenient with his behavior. Then I warned him that he'd incur a penalty if he didn't post by the next morning. He hadn't posted by the next morning. I penalized him. He quit+edited posts. I mod-killed.

I think the no-flip on the kill was best for the game, if you want me to get more into that, I will.

------------------------------------------

#2. My big mistakes -

Simply, I should have informed everyone in the signup thread, first thing, right at the top, that my game would be like this:

[uhttp://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=64005]Large Theme Games

also, keep in mind for the duration of everything that there is this: Hidden elements

and that I think everything I did in this game is still considered "normal" (even the voting thing)

I didn't realize that games like that were a thing that was done normally. This would have cleared up a LOT of confusion and I'm sorry I didn't do that + do a better job at making players aware what they were getting into because it would have been more enjoyable that way, obviously.

- Further with the lynches, my goal was to allow everyone to RELAX with the voting/lynching, and simply vote how they wanted and worry about getting who they wanted lynched rather than simply securing a lynch. I really, really, REALLY, thought I'd made it clear that I was going to NOT have a majority lynch and hammer mechanics and that players should treat it as if they are members of the community, all caring about each other and making the decision with deliberateness, and that there would NEVER be some sudden "ahah! got you dead!" in this game because it simply didn't fit with the flavor, OR how I wanted the mechanics to work (the flavor was born of the mechanics after all! I wanted to come up with a setup that supported/represented my disdain for hammer-lynching.

It seems cheap to me, and I don't think it serves good gameplay in soooo many ways. I would like to see hammer mechanics as a very infrequent thing in games (where it'd be kind of novel and an interesting / different way to play once in a great while.)

- I misnamed Sarah Matthews' observer ability as "watcher." The mechanics involved in her ability were complex, and not as simple as watcher, and naming it such was misleading, not intentionally, but I simply didn't realize I could have named it more accurately (or rather, more ambiguously!)

- I made a vote-count post edit and realized after the fact what a huge issue that can be. I hope it didn't cause too many issues in the game for people, I think I noted at one point there was confusion over who was voting for who when, and that very likely could have been my fault because I edited a vote-count after votes were made rather than post a new one (so that the VC displayed wasn't actually representing the votes made up to that point, but had accounted for votes afterward.) HUGE no-no, I realize (and felt off doing at the time, should have known better, duh.) Sorry.

- I wasn't thorough in Marie's flavor (re: "clean") and caused confusion. It could have been really bad. Thanks bler for understanding and working with me.
- I was a bit critical in the observer chat, but, do realize it is my first time modding and I was alone and frustrated during that horribly long D1. Please forgive me if I berate you in observer thread. ++edit++ Also, I should have just left shit completely spoiler-free than talk about stuff "sort of" like I did in the observer chat, it caused too much heat and wasn't productive much really.
There were more things I could have done better, but I thought these were the biggees. Please give feedback, I am open to it! But please be constructive!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

#3 - The stage + lynch mechanics. (with a pre-bonus)

pre-bonus (the potential bastard element I mentioned before) - all penalties that were not specifically told what the penalty was, your vote was voided for the Day - yep - bring the hate! (and I'll still stand by the decision, though I don't know if I have the effort to get into explaining the thought process again, maybe I will at some point.) Notice that these penalties didn't ever change the result of a lynch. Dan Evans' vote was never valid (and Brasas didn't until I told him after he "died.") The D1 wagons were tied 3-3 after the final votecount.

There was more to lynch mechanics, but none of it came into play.

DAYBREAK - This is just an extension of Night. It allowed everyone to prepare for the coming Day activities. PMs done, sent out, and then it gave everyone time to read them, read the start of the Day flavor, and process it all, BEFORE having to worry that the Day had gotten under way, posts were being made, the game was being played, and they had to still read their 5 pages of Night flavor. It kept things more balanced/fair.

MORNING - Again a pacing mechanism that I found in my observing to have worked really well. It didn't ever last long and just allowed for a little warm-up discussion before things really got into the heat (all players have checked in and made a post.)

MID-DAY - The standard Day portion of the game. Meant to be the meat of the Days where everything gets put on the table before EOD decisions are made.

SUNDOWN - 2 ways to trigger but the main trigger was what would normally be known as L-1, but there WAS NO ACTUAL L-1 (omg I wanted to smack every single one of you each time you said "L-1.") Pretty simple, I thought: someone gets to L-1, game pretty much goes into a different STAGE, waiting for person who is at L-1 to claim and then things to progress from there (either to a lynch, or reforming of wagons, a new push to a new claim, and so on.) To me, at this point, it's time to focus and simplify the options for EOD. Too often there is too much clutter as deadline approaches (or too much clutter that gets in the way of coming to an EOD with anything but a brutally painful snail-crawl) and then the lynch wagon is shit because everyone just hopped on whatever for whatever reasons because they can't frikken seem to whittle shit down and make the hard choices.

There was no trigger from Sundown -> Evening, it was a flexible amount of time, whatever reasonable + necessary that the players needed to make a final decision on lynch choices (I had it in my notes to be ~4 days depending on how things were in the game, and I would simply keep it tended and once everyone seemed done making cases, then I'd switch it to evening.)

EVENING - OKAY, cases have been made, the main wagons are formed to a point where you can almost start making a read on them as soon as you get the flip, depending on which wagon goes to lynch and what the flip is, let's go around the circle and make sure everyone has their votes where they want (allows for maneuvering and manipulating of wagons without discussion, which I think is a great little game to be played between scum+town at EOD, if it can just be allowed to happen!!! and is the BEST way to analyze wagons on the following Day after flips.)

TWILIGHT - Allows for totally open discussion about the seeming result + wagons (sans flip) and how it came to be before the end of the Day. I think this is VERY healthy for the game, and a lot of fun too. I probably would have liked Twilights to last longer.

So, D1 took so painfully long because you guys took so painfully long at making NO decision WHATSOVER! :þ I mean, that's what you get. I had a 2 week deadline for D1-D3, and fucking hell, I hoped it would never come to that long, but it did. Nothing triggered Sundown on D1, you just let it go until I knew what would be my ultimate limit of patience. It is not the mod's job to move the game state forward, if players want to take until the next full moon to make a decision, that is up to them. Heh, and then even when I switched the Stage, you still all did bupkis for wagon-building. WHYYY?! loveya though!