I just don't get it.

Vote First...

...

Hi All?

Anyway, hopefully you're having real Cheetos and none of that Lite Flavor Shit.

But while you're here, do you want to elaborate on your brasas push? You can do that one-handed, right?

Brasas.

Long-time listener; first-time caller.

Excellent and smart. Witty and charming. Would loan you the shirt off his back in a snowstorm.

Draws in, draws scum. Will he drive the bus? NO. No friends. No beep beep.

Ran interference for Dessimu like Dess was going for the 2-point conversion and Brasas was his high-profile divorce attorney.

Quad. Quad who? Does Brasas know?

Moooooooo.

There's a hidden message there...

BLEDRQM?

Hmmm...must be code for something. Or maybe an anagram?

Sorry. Missed that question in all that text. You just write too much!

My defense of Dess was obviously wrong. But I still think my reason for wondering about babark surviving L-1 unhammered, several times, was right. And Stanari might still be scum. She's less scummy that she would have been with town Dess, but still it is concievable that one scum throws suspicion on one other. Especially since she did so without actually voting! This finger pointing without voting is something that always strikes me as suspicious.

The train analysis which I referred to, however, isn't as good as it would be with a babark flip, since he might still be lying. However, with still no counter-claim I tend believe him. Especially since I don't think that town is entirely without doctor, with so many killing roles about.

So, let's assume for the moment that babark is town: then the question remains: why the hell didn't scum hammer him? They had the chance to do so. Repeatedly. The easy question would be: almost all scum were already on the train and the one left (Dess) didn't dare to hammer so that there wouldn't be an all-scum train. Granted, Stanari pushing away from this train looks a bit better under the assumption that babark is town, since scum would have tried to let it run until some townie hammers. We know that RWarehall was on the train, so that is one scum accounted for. Quad was on the train too, but wasn't scum. That leaves yog, cristi and Ix who basically camped on the babark train for a while. Especially yog was pushing for a kill quite gleefully. And in 1103 Ix, while stating that he thinks that yog's count is off by one, still appears not to be entirely sure and with his vote shows willingness to hammer. In any case I am quite sure that several scum besides RWare were on the babark train when it stalled at L-1. And if we assume that babark is town, these two really look bad. Especially yog. Who already prematurely voted again! ... Well, he's always bloodthirsty, so that might not mean much. But still he is odd in this game and I think he is scum this time.

Tell me more about why Scum Dess wouldn't hammer babark, but the rest of the Scum team would be on him.

All at the same time.

Thanks. Will contemplate that. I see a few things differently, but that may just be whatever.

So would your anagram of choice then be Love Goth Toys?

Here's one for you:

Bays Is Met

Hey, how awesome am I?

I just realized I typed "Quad" in my post above and meant "RW".

Now I can re-post it from scratch and make EVEN MOAR SENSE:

_______________________

Brasas.

Long-time listener; first-time caller.

Excellent and smart. Witty and charming. Would loan you the shirt off his back in a snowstorm.

Draws in, draws scum. Will he drive the bus? NO. No friends. No beep beep.

Ran interference for Dessimu like Dess was going for the 2-point conversion and Brasas was his high-profile divorce attorney.

RW. RW who? Does Brasas know?

Moooooooo.

_______________________


Hmmm.

I dunno.

It might still need some more animal noises.

seriously bro

brasas

great guy but he's scum

you should vote for him

...

srsly

That's the part of the argument I think that bothers me most as well. It seems built on the conceit that players act in uniform ways, rather than have individual tendencies and responding to a variety of game conditions including phase. Who's got suspicion/pressure, who's comfortable pushing and who's not? Hell, who's even around in an opportune/crucial moment?

Lift just came through a game right before this one(?) where, at LYLO flub opened with a vote on a townie. Scum (Wyrm/agent?) totally passed on the "rational" option to just lay both votes down to win the game. Agent was barely present, and not all that sharp when he was, and I suspect Wyrm was hesitant to tip his hand without being sure he'd get Agent to follow. So with the game totally in reach, they passed and instead went the ostensibly riskier route of counter-claiming the actual cop.

In this game in particular, Babark was L-1 I think during evening, so even "hammering" him there draws attention without necessarily bringing the day to close. I think that twist is wearing on both townies (speaking for myself) and presumably also for scum.

Am I wrong there?

It's one thing to hammer and then have the overnight to frame a defense, and maybe create a distraction or knock-off a critic with an NK, and quite another to push to maj only to have to stand around and defend what you just did on the spot.

I am quite curious post-game to see what scum thought of the additional phases from hammer to day-close. My guess is they'll say it raised the degree of difficulty. Though I don't think it works great for town either (indecision^3).

Anyway, digressing. Similarly, that's the main reason Stan's activity and lack of vote doesn't really bother me. In my view she was trying to broker a lynch and build a wagon so we didn't end in no lynch, and she got interested in one of the 2-3 players I'd dangled in a progression that seemed "right" to me at the time and on re-read. He then shows up and makes a resonating tonal appeal (kinda her weakness by meta, right yogs?) and she second-guesses, only coming on later when IIRC it looks like it's probably Dess or no one.

Question, though, ultimately, is do I really think Lift believes this argument? Or is he town playing what he thinks are the odds? Or is he making a fake case?

@Nacho/Stan/Tammy, what do you think of Lift's point here?


Heh, I had wondered what you meant.

Oh, I forgot Brasas was in that game right?

@Brasas, what's your take on Lift's proposed scum-hunting approach?

Both as an analysis of it's usefulness as a method, and in terms of whether you think he's serious or pulling your leg.

I am not really flush with time at the moment (and won't be for a little while longer), hence short furious posts.

Bler, I'm not sure why you laid out the framework for a case on Brasas and then asked for yogsloth to fill in the blanks. At this current point in time, I am far more interested in your take on Brasas than I am yogsloth's; for one, I'm fairly confident that the remaining scum are as simple as yogsloth/Lift and, if one of those flips town or there's one more to find, I'm looking at trenton/cristi before I'm looking at Brasas.

As for Lift's idea that Babark is scum because he wasn't hammered (an idea that gets cast aside because he wasn't counterclaimed) I don't buy into it or begin to buy into it, partially because of scum being on Babark wagon as yogsloth points out but mostly because it's not something that I'd ever buy into in general. There are reasons not to hammer as scum in that situation; hammering tends to bring a good degree of attention to one's self which is not something most scum are jazzed about which is why most scum don't do it lightly. I don't like arguments along the vein of "scum hasn't mislynched him yet and so he's scum!" because they're self-serving (although I'm not entirely sure that's the word I want here).

Two reasons. Impulse control is one. Which is the reason why I wrote it.

The other is that I wasn't actually holding my breath that yogs was going to make anything resembling a real case, so I thought I would lay out the case I saw and then critique it to move things along.

Would you disagree and suggest that me filling in the blanks cut him off from actually putting the magna carta down on paper?

So anyway, when I looked back having finished and thought about whether I should edit back out everything I wrote, I shrugged and decided there was no real point in trying to tease out a detailed case from him and decided I didn't want to put the effort in to edit it out only to potentially write it again later.

But I did helpfully suggest he could highlight whatever I missed and or critique my critique. ;)