You now feel like you're completely wrong on...?

I think that RW is town and I think that you're being far too harsh on him; in particular, the SK-hunting post is something I disagree with completely because my first response to seeing Sushi dead was SERIAL KILLER SERIAL KILLER SERIAL KILLER. I think his stance on babark is kind of ridiculous and I think that his stance on yogsloth is kind of ridiculous but he seems one of those people who loves pushing semantic things so it doesn't really bother me much.

Are you scum? You can tell me. i won't be judgmental, right now, I'm all blanky blanky.

Some of the avenues you've come at are weird. The SK thing you're coming at is weird. Why do you think RW is town? Do you think I'm town? What do you think of RW thinking it's me or you? Wait seriouysly really you don't find anything wrong with someone dropping everything to sk hunt day one? Really?

You're scum aren't you? Are you the reason I can't really formulate a scum team because I'm trying to town read you when i shouldn't?

Well that first sentence is a big ol fat lie and I hear around these parts they're a strict LAL groups so you should be careful.

Why are you dancing around giving a read on me???

If you don't have strong reasons why RW is town, why did you bother stickign up for him in the way that you did? You know for damn well sure that scum have a tendency to SK hunt in a scenario in which they believe an SK exits. You know that's a defining feature of scum in that scenario, and yet you dismiss the scenario and go oh hey guess what he's town but I don't have any strong reason to say so.

Is this real life???

Oh and ps i think you're being smarmy with the yosarian2 reference.

I'm not being smarmy with the Yosarian2 reference, I'm pointing out that you're naturally biased against players who have good reputations and often push them too hard when they don't deliver to your expectations.

Am I wrong in pointing it out?

I said that I thought that your push on him (as in pushing him for saying that he thought the vig was an SK) was bad because I had the same initial thought, and I pointed out reasoning for why I thought as much. I can't remember what exactly from him; I'm sure I could remember something if I had the time and focus to flick back through his posts but I don't think that my reasons for townreading him were horrendously meaningful if I currently can't find the reasons for them now. Do you think that I should have held off telling you that I disagreed with your read until I had a fuller picture?

I think that you're town.
I didn't address it earlier because it's by far the least important of everything that we're talking about.

I don't know there's one of two scenarios happening here. You're scum with RW and you're dismissing my suspicions as farfetched and you're helping me push a town wagon because hey why not. You haven't really pushed your Lift wagon or tried to get me on it or explained why you're ready to get off of it or push your own wagon right now. It would make absolute perfecrt sense for you as scum in that situation to dismiss me and go all gaslight to not even acknowledge the fact that that is what scum do all the time.

You could be tarot carding me where you're town but decide to dismiss my suspicions as being stupid or emotional or whatever

I just felt all sorts of wrong when you got on dess even though I asked you to, and now I feel like I have the game all backwards even though he's the only real strong scum read I have.

Maybe I'm just drunk.

I'm ready to get off my Lift wagon because I don't have the time or the clout to push it; we both know that I'm not going to be a factor by the end of the day and that I'm not going to give this game the time it deserves until Tomorrow because I have too many things that I'm trying to do at this moment. When those situations start to arise, I lean more on my townreads than I would normally, and you actually feeling confident about something for once is a push that I end up on 100% of the time.

I'm not dismissing your suspicion. I'm not gaslighting you. I'm saying that I don't agree with the reasoning you've provided for RW as scum on this page, I've pointed out that this is occasionally a fight you get drawn into often, and I'm pointing out that I feel good on the slot right now. I could be completely wrong, you could be absolutely right and I could be a complete idiot for not seeing what you're seeing but right now I'm saying that I don't think that him thinking that the shot was an SK was ridiculous or even reachy because that was my first thought as well. I don't know what he's done beyond that.

I don't know what tarot carding means, but I do want to say one more time that I haven't meant to dismiss your suspicions as stupid or emotional; I am saying that I disagreed with one piece of reasoning that you asked my opinion on.

October 27, 1696 -

Finally, after a brutally long month filled with anxious moments, tense discussions, and horrific accusations - all balanced by a show of communal solidarity and a trusting and friendly reliance on each other brought on by the exodus of the majority of the villagers that harks back to the founding days of the village, and a tiresome cycling between it all between almost everyone, the whole group has come to an agreement that, yes, there is a threat among them and they must find and remove it by force.

This doesn't mean discussion of the possibility of no threat and not killing anyone has been completely removed from the table, but, they are mostly focused on figuring out who they think they should remove from the group - tonight.

Best friends have called for each other's deaths, could-be lovers have talked of killing one another, brother has accused brother, and mother and son have accused each other.

What more could be in store for Oakwood and will it ever be the same as it once was?

"The evening is just about upon us," One villager begins, "Let us finalize our arguments and defenses and move toward a final round of voting, before it gets too late into the night, shall we?" They finish their thought and everyone agrees that if they are going to perform the horrible deed, they most certainly should be getting down to deciding before people start to get too tired and decide to call it a night.

here is how everyone currently stands:

6 villagers want to kill Laura Jennings [babark] -- William (QuadrAlien), Claire (cristigale), Emma (Ixamyakxim), Adam (RWarehall), Sean (Lifthrasil), Eric (yogsloth),

4 villagers want to kill Nathaniel (Nathan) Smith [Dessimu] -- Sarah (TammyTown), Dan (Brasas), Emily (trentonlf), Fergus (Nachomamma8),

2 villagers want to kill Fergus (Fergie) Perkins -- Marie (bler144), Craig (Bookwrym627),

1 villager wants to kill Sean O'Donnell (Sean-O!) [Lifthrasil] -- Justin (Stanari),

1 villager wants to kill Adam Johnson [RWarehall] -- Laura (babark),

1 villager wants to kill Eric Barton [yogsloth] -- Nathan (Dessimu),

**************************************************************************************************************
if your vote is not where you want it to be, say so, and I'll correct the vote count

---(adjusted to reflect vote change in post below)

In this post I flail a lot and generally act incoherent. I am sorry.

Tangental but relevant I don't think I've ever hammered anyone. Ever.

Your push on me is kinda :S but anway. I'm never convinced of anything. Floating wagons is kind of ehh, that's fair, but the posts you linked were never really pushing for a Dess wagon. It was a consideration. That's all.

(When I want wagons, which is rare, I do in fact push them. And, yanno, vote for them.)

I will probably end up on Dessimu, grudgingly. Really, few are the lynch wagons I have joined ungrudgingly.

Anyway, I think you owe me an answer to something - why do you no longer think Ix and I could be scumbuddies?

It...it's counterintuitive. I've done it before but opening yourself up as scum is difficult. From what I've seen it doesn't surprise me that you are the kind of player who can pull that off, and I don't think Dess is incapable of faking it either, but it bothers me. I spent a lot of time today trying to talk myself down from it but it came back to hit me over the head again tonight.

I dunno. By every good measure of scumread (gut, head, etc) I see him as scummy; it's just my heart has not gotten the memo. Probably at some point the rest of me will knock it unconscious and have its way. Bad metaphor. Anyway.

TLDR: He's scummy, but there's something about him I don't know how to read and something suggests it might be town.

Ghhhhh. This game is making spaghetti of me. And my vocabulary. And my articulation.

You gotta know when to hold 'em. And other stuff.

In from the road and half asleep.

Few thoughts:
Interesting Tammy/Nacho exchange there. Still reading both on the town-er side of the ledger in tone and argument. Agree with Tammy more, but I see Nacho's points as reasonable.

yogsloth...back in the WTF pool. Nothing he's doing looks like a counter-claim, and yet he's trying to rally a vote for the claimed doctor. I'm half waiting for him to bring up the possibility that babs really is doctor - but....scum doctor! dun dun dun

Because all the awesome mods use that trick! It actually did cross my mind momentarily. Especially thinking about babark's question about how guilty claimed-Ix looks if he doesn't turn up dead. claimed doctor certainly raises an eye maybe not D2, but definitely by D4/5.

However I think that's paranoia again. The most salient point, at least with what we do know is that scum!doctor wouldn't be very useful against a dayVig or daySK though. So...barring further evidence put that in the crazy theories pile.

Also nacho no longer in danger of modkill. yay! Not psyched about no lynch after this grind.

My best argument for Dess at this point is with babs and Ix both claiming, my personal POE pool is down to Dess (assuming he's not going to suddenly ramp up his participation/engagement) and Quad.

Plus if he does flip scum we at least get some dynamics we can look at from the short span it was dess v babs and who pushed or defended each. Not much, but at this point that's all the enthusiasm I can generate.

Unvote Perky Fergie
Vote Dessimu

Not sure when I'll be on tomorrow. Afternoon maybe.

Made the mistake of re-reading bits of Dess before sleep thinking I could address one of Stan's questions. On my laptop so I can't quote, but in his first game as scum (game#35 where he slid under the radar probably partly b/c none of us - even in the observer thread could believe a new player was quite that effective, especially D1/D2.

But he had a post in that game (can't link - no mouse on the laptop atm and screen is cracked so I think I have an open parenthesis in the above paragraph but can't see if it's closed or not) that just said:

"Snow is on the ground. Weather is getting warmer. Now it rains. Mother Nature is amazing. I love her."

He's a super nice guy, and that and the non-English-first-language thing make him pretty hard to tone read, imo. That said, something he said makes me want to re-read him again when actually awake. For now:

unvote dessimu.

This is exhibit a of why I try not to play anymore. Dog-tired for 3 hours, fighting sleep on the drive, go to bed and partly asleep with the light off and then the brain zzzrrrrps on something.

When you first said this I assumed it was a town slip and tried to paper it over with a diversion. But I'm no longer sure it makes much sense. And if you're town scum probably picked up on the implication anyway.

The full slate of events, detailed above but adding the two "maybe" claims from wyrm and I:

DayVig/SK (all but mod-confirmed)
compulsive town investigator (claimed not confirmed)
doctor (claimed not confirmed)
Mason (on the table, maybe/maybe not claimed)
Paranoid Barn Owner (on the table, maybe/maybe not claimed)

Not to mention whatever TF yogs is doing.

Even if you're town vanilla, or have a simple, normal role and are bluffing VT, which he may or may not be, do you look at your own PM plus Sushi's flip and rush to assume it's NOT role madness? I'd kinda assumed that was at least in play.

At most that's 2 vanilla versus 1 normal role and 4 ...less normal... roles on the table.

Even in the first game I was in (was role madness) there were 14 players, and exactly one was vanilla.

Will sleep on it, but if drealmer said somewhere that it's not role madness I really do want to see the quote. Does this strike anyone else as notable or am I chasing shadows here?

I hate this game.

vote trentonlf

I just don't see where the assumption it's not role madness comes from given everything that's been put on the table if only seeing 1 PM + 1 VT flip vs. the preponderance of evidence. It seems like someone seeing multiple pieces of evidence and weighing it against those collective claims.

If there's a quote to this extent from drealmer, then by all means I'm way off base.

I can't shake the feeling that scum are having their hands dipped deep in this voting shabang.

Reason for not lynching me is that I have a special awesome thing trick up my sleeve that is role unrelated. I may or may not have a role, but the trick might hurt town if used wrong.

I really don't want to say more.

Today was much livelier in the village. More to process but short on time. Most will have to wait until tomorrow. Until that time:

Unvote babark

Not convinced the claim is genuine but don't want to leave my vote on a potential PR while deciding. Batting a few things back-n-forth, need to sleep on it.

The lurker argument seemed opportunistic on Dessimu (for those who made it). If you're really looking to lynch a lurker, Quad has everyone beat. My recollection is Dessi is active in his scum games. I'm open to the other arguments on him and need to reread him. @brasas - I'll get you an answer then. It might help me decide were to place my vote as well.

I like Tammy's contributions. If she can make this post as scum we are in for one heck of ride. I don't know how to read that post except town.

I think it's worth revisiting how the voting has transitioned the past few days. Something is at work, wish I knew what it is.