Why do we play this game? Moments of amusement set in counterpoint against long stretches of anxiety and frustration.

I don't recall anyone saying your lack of claim is a "good" thing, though I'm open to correction. IIRC some have said "confusing" and some have said "scummy."

If you're vanilla town the upside is that he (picking out of a hat, but he is one of what seems to be the 2 alternative wagons atm) is absolutely more likely to be mafia than you, or maybe even SK if that's a thing! Downside being at least some chance he's town PR.

If you're town PR you should be voting for whoever to stay off the block whether you suspect them or not, because you're town PR. Other than a very small chance they have a "better" town PR than you, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of doing what you need to to stay alive, which tends to involve voting the counterwagon.

The fact that you don't explicitly suspect him is mostly moot - the issue is do you have specific reason to think he's more important to town than you? You being the one person town!babs knows to be town. If you are town your life and vote both matter to town and other than appeal to emotion you're just kinda rolling over. Make scum fight to finish you off, at least.

That's why I think I said earlier that you're hitting the right tones to "sound" town, but why doesn't town you vote Stan? Or Dess? Or no lynch? Those are basically the alternate wagons at this point, and if you are town you have to think at least pushing for one of those has better odds of a good result than your own lynch, right?

At least from my perspective all you're doing is making me feel bad about my vote, which is increasing said anxiety and frustration. Should I instead vote no lynch, in your esteem? It seems you want RW, but that's just not a wagon today, so what's plan B?

The day can't extend forever, even though it kinda feels like it has and will.

KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL

(Bler is not scum, because he's trying way too hard.)

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

(I think I've come around on Stanari, she's poking around more than me, anyway.)

STAB STAB STAB STAB THRUST STAB STABBITY STAB STAB

(I am not Scum, or even Neutral. I am just confused, hungry, and hungover.)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I'm just going to preempt your squinting here.

Sort of.

)

Sorry, that open bracket in my last post was really bothering me. The thing I hate about "Don't edit" threads, considering I'm a heavy editor.

Anyhow, as you can see from my "readings", no new or useful information. Also, if I switch now, then that'll just be all the more fuel for "Look at the scum trying to get out any way possible". Besides, aside from me, most of the other possibilities (including RW now, surprisingly) are locked at 2 votes (well, aside from Dess, who yog keeps toggling between).

Anyhow, sleep time.

Huh, I can actually kinda see town!yogs in that. (qualifies as sundown defense of yogs, right)



lol. nice.

I have this feeling that we've probably gone about this D1 all wrong and it's something like cristi/nacho/trent/QA that we never even came close to sniffing with me chasing Ix and RW chasing doc/babs.

Including myself just to reiterate I don't *know* Stan is town, but I think I'm basically here (combined gut/brain), but the only reads I'd say I feel "confident" about are stan/wyrm:

bler
stan
wyrm tammy brasas
[ix cristi nacho yogs trent
quad rw lift]
babs dess

If I focus more on brain read rw moves up and babark moves down, and yet, deep down I kinda think I probably harassed doc out of the game for not reading carefully, it got read as a copy of the a4plz situation, and we were off to the wrong races. babark comes into the game on defense and never catches up/settle in to do anything more than that.

So...that's not good.

unvote babark

I have no idea what I'm doing from here.

VOTE CANDIDATE DESSIMU

MAKE SEVENTEENTH CENTURY MAINE GREAT AGAIN

He's Scum because he took heat and bounced.

Look.

We've been going for ~15 days now.

We're longer than most GOG games and we're still in Day 1.

Just kill somebody. Anybody. Do something. Do anything. People who aren't voting should jump out a window.

Come on people. Seriously.

Seriously people.

Oh... uh, I am not Scum because I am... something something something not scum. Jesus.

Not scum Jesus, eh?

I don't know, you are pretty good at turning WIFOM into, uh, wine.

I'm not sure I really like Dess all that much either, but I guess instead of giving up entirely, I'll at least test one particular cause/effect theory.

vote Dessimu

Really going away for a bunch of hours. This time. For real. I've thought that like 10 times today, but now I've actually said it.

most current vote count

here is how the villagers currently stand:

4 villagers want to kill Nathaniel (Nathan) Smith [Dessimu] -- Sarah (TammyTown), Emily (trentonlf), Eric (yogsloth), Marie (bler144),

4 villagers want to kill Laura Jennings [babark] -- William (QuadrAlien), Claire (cristigale), Emma (Ixamyakxim), Adam (RWarehall),

2 villagers want to kill Adam Johnson [RWarehall] -- Laura (babark), Craig (Bookwrym627),

2 villagers want to kill Justin Dawson [Stanari] -- Dan (Brasas), Sean (Lifthrasil),

2 villagers don't want to kill anyone -- Nathan (Dessimu), Justin (Stanari),

1 villager wants to kill Sean O'Donnell (Sean-O!) [Lifthrasil] -- Fergus (Nachomamma8),

**************************************************************************************************************

if your vote is not displayed to be where you want it, say so, and I'll correct this votecount / vote-count / vote count

I'm going to defend Dess here as Quad and Nacho also appear to have bounced with no heat whatsoever. Or perhaps have just fallen asleep? Not sure absence is alignment indicative at this point.

Name/timestamp of last post:

1. Dessimu...............................Nathaniel (Nathan) Smith  2 days
6. QuadrAlien.....................................William (Bill) O'Brian  2 days
12. Nachomamma8...................Fergus (Fergie) Perkins  2 days
2. Lifthrasil...............................Sean O'Donnell (Sean-O!)  ayer
13. TammyTown........................................Sarah Matthews  ayer
14. trentonlf.......................................................Emily Barton  ayer
9. cristigale.......................................................Claire Dwyer  22h
7. bookwyrm627.............................................Craig Adams  12h
4. Ixamyakxim..................................................Emma Hess  10h
5. RWarehall (formerly agentcarr16)......Adam Johnson  9h
3. babark (formerly docbear1975)..........Laura Jennings  6h
17. Stanari....................................................Justin Dawson  6h
8. Brasas..............................................Daniel (Dan) Evans  8h
11. yogsloth.........................................................Eric Barton  5h
15. bler144..................................................Marie Thomson  5h



And since we're on the topic of useless data:

name/#ofposts:

6. QuadrAlien.....................................William (Bill) O'Brian  13
1. Dessimu...............................Nathaniel (Nathan) Smith  30
13. TammyTown........................................Sarah Matthews  32
2. Lifthrasil...............................Sean O'Donnell (Sean-O!)  33
9. cristigale.......................................................Claire Dwyer  39
3. babark (formerly docbear1975)..........Laura Jennings  40
4. Ixamyakxim..................................................Emma Hess  41
5. RWarehall (formerly agentcarr16)......Adam Johnson  46
____________________________________________________
12. Nachomamma8...................Fergus (Fergie) Perkins  58
8. Brasas..............................................Daniel (Dan) Evans  71
14. trentonlf.......................................................Emily Barton  82
18. Drealmer………………………….Wystan Tadayaway 87
7. bookwyrm627.............................................Craig Adams  94
17. Stanari....................................................Justin Dawson  119
11. yogsloth.........................................................Eric Barton  156
15. bler144..................................................Marie Thomson  239

median post = 52, mean=73.75 because some a-hole outlier is skewing it
The mod is 5th highest in post count. lulz.

Vote Lifthrasil

Dessimu wagon is nice but no one has yet helped me through the one townpost in his iso; Lif is just pure unalloyed questionableness. Yes, I will probably end up back on Dessimu at deadline.

@mod: bler unvoted here I think?

I'm going to defend Dessimu here (yea, I know, I know: Lift defending a lurker must be scuuum!)

I went back through babark's posts and Dessimu's posts. And while there is nothing in either that strikes me as scummy, there is something else, that makes me wonder: babark was at L-1 several times, for extended periods of time too, and no one hammered him. There are two scenarios that can explain that:

Easiest scenario: babark is scum and therefore no one hammered him, because his buddies hesitated bussing him.
Also possible: babark is town and all scum were already on his wagon and therefore no one was around to finish him off.

Actually I think that the latter one is what is happening here: scum noticed, after several attempts, that the babark train isn't going to reach it's goal. Therefore they had to switch targets and went for the easiest target: a lurker. But in this case it is unlikely that they would select to push one of their own. Therefore the sudden switch to Dessimu would actually mean that he is town. A convenient target for scum and a lurker, yes, but still a town lurker.

But also if babark is scum, scum will have been eager to push any town train and therefore any scum that hid on babark's train would be tempted to jump off as soon as a viable train on some townie appears. E.g. on a lurker.

In summary: the fact that the Dessimu train started on just his lurkyness combined with the speed that it took off makes me rather suspect that he isn't scum but that it is scum pushing his train.

In that game, yes. Of course, in that game power roles were two-a-penny, so I've not got a guarantee it was a success, but still. :P


I would assume that's why they don't think it's much of an argument. :)

However, I should see if I can find time to re-read Dessimu in the...

...Oh, curses, I'm only free for about an evening this weekend. Posting may be even worse than usual. :S

(Note to self: LAST forum game of Mafia. Never seem able to make time.)


...I'm going to paraphrase myself from a previous game. If you are, in fact, simply scared Town and my read on that quote from earlier was a mile off, never be afraid of doing something because it'll make you look suspicious. Other than for Neutral roles, the game is not won or lost on a single lynch, and there will be useful information for the Town to work with once you flip, even if you're no longer participating.

That said, don't just vote for someone else purely to save your skin either - go back, make sure you have clear reasons, and decide who to vote for.

(I realise I cannot honestly complain after that if said target turns out to be me. BUT STILL.) :P

I was thinking (conference is boring at the moment) and just noticed that, if Dessimu is town, I probably did him a disservice by defending him. I am seen as leaning scum by some who will take the fact that I defend Dessimu as incriminating - or try to make it appear that way. But I call to those of you not scum: try to think about the relation between the failed babark train and the appearing Dessimu train without preconception.

And one more result of my thinking. This time about babark and whether he wouldn't be a good lynch candidate after all (even though I originally refused to hammer him). There are exactly 2 possibilities: either he's scum or he isn't. Let's go through the cases:

1.) babark is scum --> lynching him is good for town (Duh)
2.) babark is neutral --> we get a flip and a train to analyse without losing town --> lynching him is good for town
3.) babark is town --> we combine that with the fact that he wasn't hammered for so long, which means that several scum were on his failed train. Maybe not all, maybe one wasn't on and didn't dare to hammer out of fear of pooling all scum too close together. But still, if babark is town, there were surely some scum on his train --> We get to reduce the pool of suspects and take a close look at those who were on the train when it was at L-1 --> very valuable information gain = good for town.

So, no matter what babark is, we gain something by lynching him (sorry babark). Additionally I read his refusal to defend himself or claim as a hint that he hasn't some super important power role, even if he is town. If he were something crucial and he were town, he would have claimed by now. So if we lynch him we don't even risk losing an important power role.

Therefore, as much as I regret to get off Stanari:

UNVOTE Stanari
VOTE babark