I still don't see an actual Mason claim anywhere

Post 14 He says he works with stone

Post 242 He states he is a Mason and I don't see it as a role claim at all, simply saying he is someone who is a Mason (Works with stone)

Post 357 If his profession is a Mason then there is a Mason in the game, where did he role claim?

Post 361 He again doe's not say he has a Mason role, just gives scenarios as to what can happen if he does.

I still don't see an actual claim and I don't think he has a role of Mason but is a Mason by trade.

If three Masons claimed in a 13 player game and scum flipped, all three players would be confirmed town. Why would you policy lynch one of them?

Masons are commonly known as a strong protown power role. They are very likely to be night killed by wolves. They are players that wolves must kill because they cannot afford leaving a confirmed town group of players alive. Why would you policy lynch one of them?

The point of this game is that everyone could be wolves but we don't have time to lynch them all; why would a mason claim make a person a top priority for a lynch?

It should not. If there's are any Mason's in the game the wolves would have to kill them first if they know who they are. Mistake I made in a game that I was mafia and there were Mason roles in the game was leaving them alive after they both claimed on Day 1. (tried to frame them as not really being Masons but scum, did not work)

So first of all, what do you think of Barbark's argument against RW that essentially amounts to "he found two things scummy, thus his read is evolving and he is scum"? What do you think of Babark ending up being over reliant on pushing the players who are pushing him? Why didn't you talk about any of this when I brought it up if you were looking for my take on the situation?

Your interpretation of Stanari as the definitive counter wagon when she had all of one vote at the time is a bit out of touch with reality. Are you putting all people who pushed Babark as wolf a little wolfier if Stan is wolf? Or am I special?

You don't need any reasons to suspect anyone, fine, but you keep giving half-reasons why I'm scum which implies actual reason and then when I ask you about it, it... doesn't exist? Did you ever look to find the post i made towards you that you disliked?

Best case scenario and worst case scenario is that I didn't read your post towards me properly; there's no real motivation for either alignment to purposefully misrepresent someone that poorly and obviously, as I implied to Wyrm earlier.

On a lighter name, I thought I was a woman too! Fergus is apparently a decently common male name for Irishmen?

Let's clear this up.

@Bookwyrm - did you claim the mafia role Mason? (Not your character's occupation but the role in the game unrelated to flavor)

EBWOP - due to Bookwrym's penchant for claiming technicalities in respect to lying ('it was misleading, not a lie')

@Bookwyrm - In this game of mafia, have you claimed the game role of Mason? (irrespective of flavor attributed to your character, Craig)

Yes, please. And this time not with words that can be interpreted one way or the other! Are you a power-role Mason or not?

Search for the tv show Supernatural and look at the character Crowley, he's the king of hell, his real name is Fergus. When I first saw the name Fergus that's what popped into my head LOL

Going to bed. If I missed anything in particular kindly ping me. And since I expect not everyone reads everything (I know I don't despite trying to) giving headsup I am flying home wednesday. And the preparation for that will be time consuming, as well my week home I will have several personal and family commitments. I really apologize for not doing more, but really, I think I'm still above average in participation and contributing positively, so... yeah...

1 - as far I noticed you didn't comment anything after I posted at you. What came before, as I just said, I pretty much speed read. My experience with babark is from political threads. He is defensive, and I'd even say too defensive. It's who he is. Not alignment indicative IMO.

2 - when I voted Stan I posted the previous two votecounts showing her with two votes. I even told her directly that her wagon was not ?substantive? (some word she used I think), but neither was the wagon on babark. Even if someone had left her wagon meanwhile I don't see that changing my choice between the two of them. As for others, I don't have the time to drive. I will tell you I saw Cristi's post about the wagon on babark being a better one for the reads. That kind of logic might influence me.

3 - I will get to you when I have the time. It took me a whole day, by which I mean a 24hr period, coming online in what I think were 3 separate times, just to take notes on what Wyrm and you had posted until then. I was freaking exausted, felt like I did not have any super clear read on either of you, decided my blerxperiment would be potentially more revealing of something interesting and after that evaporated, I decided it was time to put an actual vote, since I have no clue when we move into next phase, I know next three days I'll be quite busy and even flying all of wednesday, and I don't want the no lynch topic to come back. So forgive me for not paying you the attention you deserve. Mummy does love you, yadah yadah... Yes I found the post, I promise you you'll get your day in the sun, and maybe something will pop up / coalesce when I reread my notes.


Agreed, on my reread I think I recall his Mason "claim" is basically him using a capitalized word once, I have the post numbers on the doc... And in that same post if I recall he says he cuts the truth with a razor, or maybe that's another post. I tended to see that lie, if it is a lie, as him pulling the nightkill as vanilla. And although that was the one thing I really felt torn about delaying posting about, I came down on the side of no harm done if he is scum, it will resolve soon enough, and if he is town, better not call attention to it.

F that. Really? Some vig shot Sushi or some shit? Jesus... this game is crazy. And only D1... I'm rushing and going to bed. This shit is moving too fast for me... my OCD is cracking under pressure. :P

As the situation changes, so might I. I agree your wagon is crap, but not my vote. Sorry again? Trying to be rational here - the wagon on babark is stronger but especially D1 with no real data I will trust my reads, weak as they may be. I will not be peer pressured.

In the votecounts I posted no one except you and him were above one vote. To be clear, I think both wagons are mislynches. I might be wrong. I will be happier with any of the alternatives I posted. I am being very clear here, more maybe than I should be.

As to more on Nacho Wyrm, the best I can do if you insist on now now now (by whic I mean tomorrow, I really am rushing to bed after I post this, 20 min typing already [50min doing editing for typos... any minute now I post and run], and god knows when I finish) is just copy paste my thoughts as I took them. They will probably be incoherent as fuck. I have not had the time (or rather, I prioritized other stuff in the game) to consolidate, summarize and see if any patterns emerged from the notes. But what I told Nacho higher is the overall impression I got. It was tiring and for what felt like zero payoff.

As to why you over babark, because I have babark as null like you pretty much, but docbear I read as town derp. So I think chances you are scum are low, but higher than for her / him.

I see Stan Nacho were echoing some of your stuff.

All I can do is clarify the miscommunication when I'm aware it happened.
On my timing re Nacho / Wyrm I think I covered, and really Bler, if I knew what brilliant questions to ask either I would have done them. That said I'm pretty sure I used questions marks in the post I made at Nacho.
On the Stan wagon, who is right afterall, did she have two votes or one? You are saying what I thought was true, but Nacho would not just lie on that right? I'll check eventually...
I went for the higher votes. If momentum happens, I will adjust. I was very clear on alternatives I would consider scummier, I just saved time on providing reasons. If / when I change vote I'll justify it.
And I am not making a gambit. I saw two wagons, insubstantial as they were, and I chose the one I felt was better. I voted, it's not a gambit, it's a conscious choice that between lynching docbear / babark or stanari, I find the lesser evil on voting stan. I am open to be persuaded otherwise and noted cristi's post with interest. Did not have a chance to digest it though and not sure I agreed 100%. I pinged it so would find it easier when I revisit it.

I threw shit to see if anyone would slip. Had no one in particular in sight. I dedicated all my mindspace to it, posted rationalizations and stretches in defence of it at you and a couple others that questioned me. And dropped it when the votecount made clear I hadn't voted. Perhaps unfairly I find that this kind of plays I do tend to backfire on me. (honestly the biggest surprise I had was how quiet the reactions were, I thought it would be more stormy...) So given how many of you I'm playing for the first time, I was extra careful to hint how difficult it was, and was happy to have the inspiration of mistyping your name so the vote would be formally invalid and prove I did not actualy believe you were scummy. And you know what? I still expect somene will come out eventually and use my "vote" on you to vote on me. Because WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM. It's easy to asks questions. Answering them takes more effort.

On the surprise, yeah, if you put it that way, I would be more surprised to see babark flip scum. What I meant however is that I don't actually believe his flip will surprise me, whereas hers might. I also don't think chances are big it will if it was not clear up to now. (it's not 50/50 chance I see, I consider it closer to 75% given the typical ratio of scum)

If any of my preferred options gain traction / momentum I will happier to shift vote and say more on why a particular person deserves my vote.

[Refreshes - sees more pressure on Wyrm]

Really people? It's WIFOM either way... he's already all in, I would be surprised if he changes tune now. I mean, ok I guess, a wagon on him would be better all around I think, and if he is a role Mason, it's a policy lynch anyway? (I confess I don't understand the intrincacies of the role in practice, I saw but did not understand arguments about lynching only D2 or later)

But I wasn't the one calling it flimsy, that was someone else. And numerous people have come out since stating that they don't quite get why everyone thought the post was suspicious, or that even if they got it, they didn't agree with it.
Anyhow, I listed all the "cases" against me (some of them in fact conflict with each other) , and then RW added a few more [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/oakwood_village_forum_mafia_game_42/post985]here. Docbear's post is here. Read it and tell me if any of these weird outlandish theories make sense considering the source. The funny bit is, even though it wasn't me who said it, the thing that irks me the most is RW's constant (even in the post I linked) suggestion that there was something WRONG or MISSPOKEN in docbear's post that needs to be addressed. I just don't see it.


In other news, yog's responded and is back, but his content seems as light as mine currently. Hope to see something from Ix soon too, I guess it is weird to have a wagon, claim, and then people leave your wagon. Leaves you with little to do and react to. I've just gotten done with a long bus ride, and tried catching up to the best of my abilities. Early day tomorrow, so can't really focus right now. Tomorrow I'll try to read through the recent pages skipping everything about me/docbear so that I can get a read on some of the other dynamics (which is apparently really important to do...).

goddammit unwarranted townreads are the way to my tender heart

Thanks for the post. Was hoping I wouldn't have to wait 10 minutes. Missed the first part of my response (had them in two separate tabs).

Interesting how I always end up getting lynched, and flip town, and then in some cases that helps catch the scum. Yay team, I guess, but not yay me. I don't plan on changing the way I behave, so hopefully with enough games, people will stop auto-lynching me, and I might even end up getting killed by mafia!

I really don't know what to say about this, bler. I mean, we're on the first day, nothing has happened, and I'm really not one to overanalyse people's words to find "hidden meanings". Nothing Dess, Nacho or Lift said stuck out to me as something noteworthy at this point. We'd have more information once something significant has happened. Currently, the significant thing that has happened is Sushi's death, and the (far too) obvious culprit would be yogsloth, but I don't see the point of that.
Anyhow, it is a bit unfair to desire to penalise me for talking about me/RW when your post is followed by tonnes of others asking questions about those.

babark it's ok to talk about your wagon but are you really telling me you have no other opinions??????

Well, maybe I'm wrong (again) but I'm pretty sure you earned it. This time I'm sure! Well, pretty sure.

Why do you think I'm penalizing you for that? I've come around to you over the past 18 or so hours mostly by eliminating others from suspicion, comparatively speaking (mostly Stan and RW) and looking at the limited data we do have. I don't think you're lock-scum, just that there's value in your wagon compared to the usual D1 mess. Yours has been a slow burn rather than the usual discombobulated rush.

I'll say straight up you haven't done anything to earn your way out, though. Playing defense is just non-alignment indicative.

But, for example, Lift has said quite a bit. You could look at what he's said with more scrutiny.

Dess, has been lurking like nuts. You could look at that more closely. Maybe what he's not saying is important? Maybe there's something to be read in him only having cast 2 votes, and in both cases for the easiest option on the board? He gave a full reads list . He criticized Quad for mention of a "plan." Anything?

yogs has been pretending he's a kumquat being swallowed by a marmot. You could look at that.

Lots of other shit. You and RW, at least as an intellectual argument are just stalemated. Have been. If you're town, take the questions and say "thank you for asking, that's a great question - I will get back to you but first want to focus on ABC so that my thoughts are out there for when I do flip town!babs. tyvm." You can even cut/paste that into your responses free of charge.

I'm happy to help. Enjoy!