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General discussionNot Happy(119 posts) (119 posts) 
(119 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 19, 2018
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richlind33: I see groupism as being akin to tribalism, so perhaps you should reconsider your perception that we are at cross-purposes.

The only way I know to rise above this sort of debilitating mentality is by identifying as human, rather than by ethnicity, nationality, religion, or class.
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initialpresence: The point I've been making all along is that it's OK for people to identify as whatever they want and to create communities and to self-segregate if they wish - people tend to do this naturally, just look at any nation with diverse populations. And those who don't want to self segregate and want to live in a diverse, integrated community should be able to. The point is at the moment almost everyone, especially in western nations has no say in the matter and are being forced down one path. That is the problem with large nations - which unfortunately are being turned into regions such as the EU - NAFTA is a step towards this in North America. You end up with hundreds of millions of very very different and incompatible people living under one set of enforced rules - this is a recipe for disaster as is evidenced by the increasing levels of tension and chaos in the world right now.
You earlier said something that is very true, but now seem to be forgetting it...

"...Until people unite and do something to stop that from happening, none of that which we discuss here is possible."

So how do you propose to unite enough people to free ourselves of the coercion we're discussing?

Perhaps I'm wrong but it appears to me that you want to have your cake, and eat it, too. You want to be free, but only on your own terms. You're certainly welcome to try, but I'm fairly certain that you aren't going to get any further than the multitudes who have long since discovered that it is a dead end. Mentality is the only thing that makes people incompatible. When people become willing to change their mentality, all manner of possibilities come into being. But for those who are close-minded and cannot bear to see this world from more than one perspective, the only possibility is blindness and ignorance.
Post edited August 19, 2018 by richlind33
Posted August 20, 2018
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richlind33: I see groupism as being akin to tribalism, so perhaps you should reconsider your perception that we are at cross-purposes.

The only way I know to rise above this sort of debilitating mentality is by identifying as human, rather than by ethnicity, nationality, religion, or class.
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kohlrak: This is all fine an dandy if you get everyone to agree, but the same is to be said about mutually assured destruction theory. What would happen if the US got a 100% effective missile defense system, but only the US had it? Would not the US then basically nuke everyone it didn't like, since there's nothing to deter them? I can see why Russia was against Starwars. So, what's going on now is, if you got people like Stefan Molyneux or Dr. Jordan Peterson calling for us to do the very thing you say, the end result is "Alt-right," "facist," etc. At the end of the day, you can pretend that the labels mean nothing, but they do mean something in reality if people make it so. IDPol is too easy for people, and it's allows for a great amount of predictive ability of what someone's political views are, which also make money (facebook echo chambers, as I heard a good TEDx talk on). As a result, it's easier to just fall into the trap of IDPol, because everyone else does it, too, and you'll be a victim to it whether you like it or not. And that's just politics itself, let alone the natural human nature to segregate by these groups. It's not an easy issue, however it is definitely the issue of yesteryear that we have today because we didn't solve it back when we should have (we have issues for today, but we can't solve them because we're playing catchup with yesteryear).
I'm only interested in people that see through the institutional propaganda. It doesn't take that many "good" people to bring about change.
Posted August 20, 2018
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initialpresence: The point I've been making all along is that it's OK for people to identify as whatever they want and to create communities and to self-segregate if they wish - people tend to do this naturally, just look at any nation with diverse populations. And those who don't want to self segregate and want to live in a diverse, integrated community should be able to. The point is at the moment almost everyone, especially in western nations has no say in the matter and are being forced down one path. That is the problem with large nations - which unfortunately are being turned into regions such as the EU - NAFTA is a step towards this in North America. You end up with hundreds of millions of very very different and incompatible people living under one set of enforced rules - this is a recipe for disaster as is evidenced by the increasing levels of tension and chaos in the world right now.
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richlind33: You earlier said something that is very true, but now seem to be forgetting it...

"...Until people unite and do something to stop that from happening, none of that which we discuss here is possible."

So how do you propose to unite enough people to free ourselves of the coercion we're discussing?

Perhaps I'm wrong but it appears to me that you want to have your cake, and eat it, too. You want to be free, but only on your own terms. You're certainly welcome to try, but I'm fairly certain that you aren't going to get any further than the multitudes who have long since discovered that it is a dead end. Mentality is the only thing that makes people incompatible. When people become willing to change their mentality, all manner of possibilities come into being. But for those who are close-minded and cannot bear to see this world from more than one perspective, the only possibility is blindness and ignorance.
I'll be brief today for various reasons, but I do want to reply to you right now. I agree with your general premise. It's an extremely complex situation (although I'm trying to nutshell it here for expedience). Can people unite while at the same time acknowledging their differences and the fact that these differences seem to be genuinely irreconcilable? Appeal to the general future good of all of us? We have a long way to go. The problem lies with those who over the past century or so have seized control of the west and other parts of the world, combined with the general ignorance and apathy of the overwhelming majority of people and of course most of them have their everyday lives to deal with. As long as we have this illegitimate hostile "elite" running the show the future looks pretty grim for most of the world. Take back control from them and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that all else follows.What are the odds? Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets please!
Posted August 20, 2018
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kohlrak: This is all fine an dandy if you get everyone to agree, but the same is to be said about mutually assured destruction theory. What would happen if the US got a 100% effective missile defense system, but only the US had it? Would not the US then basically nuke everyone it didn't like, since there's nothing to deter them? I can see why Russia was against Starwars. So, what's going on now is, if you got people like Stefan Molyneux or Dr. Jordan Peterson calling for us to do the very thing you say, the end result is "Alt-right," "facist," etc. At the end of the day, you can pretend that the labels mean nothing, but they do mean something in reality if people make it so. IDPol is too easy for people, and it's allows for a great amount of predictive ability of what someone's political views are, which also make money (facebook echo chambers, as I heard a good TEDx talk on). As a result, it's easier to just fall into the trap of IDPol, because everyone else does it, too, and you'll be a victim to it whether you like it or not. And that's just politics itself, let alone the natural human nature to segregate by these groups. It's not an easy issue, however it is definitely the issue of yesteryear that we have today because we didn't solve it back when we should have (we have issues for today, but we can't solve them because we're playing catchup with yesteryear).
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richlind33: I'm only interested in people that see through the institutional propaganda. It doesn't take that many "good" people to bring about change.
We need more than a handful of people, however. The temptation of the masses is tempting, too, especially when, at the end of the day, the nonsense and BS is going to be what you're going to have to go through to get anything done. Even I, myself, am often tempted to go full IDPol on people, especially if they're strawmanning me. Why give an idiot my best? Then, i just devolve into being the idiot, myself.
avatar
richlind33: You earlier said something that is very true, but now seem to be forgetting it...

"...Until people unite and do something to stop that from happening, none of that which we discuss here is possible."

So how do you propose to unite enough people to free ourselves of the coercion we're discussing?

Perhaps I'm wrong but it appears to me that you want to have your cake, and eat it, too. You want to be free, but only on your own terms. You're certainly welcome to try, but I'm fairly certain that you aren't going to get any further than the multitudes who have long since discovered that it is a dead end. Mentality is the only thing that makes people incompatible. When people become willing to change their mentality, all manner of possibilities come into being. But for those who are close-minded and cannot bear to see this world from more than one perspective, the only possibility is blindness and ignorance.
avatar
initialpresence: I'll be brief today for various reasons, but I do want to reply to you right now. I agree with your general premise. It's an extremely complex situation (although I'm trying to nutshell it here for expedience). Can people unite while at the same time acknowledging their differences and the fact that these differences seem to be genuinely irreconcilable? Appeal to the general future good of all of us? We have a long way to go. The problem lies with those who over the past century or so have seized control of the west and other parts of the world, combined with the general ignorance and apathy of the overwhelming majority of people and of course most of them have their everyday lives to deal with. As long as we have this illegitimate hostile "elite" running the show the future looks pretty grim for most of the world. Take back control from them and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that all else follows.What are the odds? Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets please!
It's only been the problem since before written history, but at least we have written history showing us making incredibly slow progress. They justify themselves by saying "look at the peons, see they are not even interested enough to dethrone us, so why should we let them have the power?" What kills me inside is, they're right. Why should the population have the power to rule if they refuse to use it? If people are willing to blindly vote on a singe letter, does not the population, as a whole, deserve the crap and troubles they're getting. On the other hand, what about those of us who are better than that? Why should we suffer for the average apathetic? How do you give the power to the unapathetic, or at least let the unapathetic have a place to go and be?
Post edited August 20, 2018 by kohlrak
Posted August 22, 2018
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richlind33: I'm only interested in people that see through the institutional propaganda. It doesn't take that many "good" people to bring about change.
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kohlrak: We need more than a handful of people, however. The temptation of the masses is tempting, too, especially when, at the end of the day, the nonsense and BS is going to be what you're going to have to go through to get anything done. Even I, myself, am often tempted to go full IDPol on people, especially if they're strawmanning me. Why give an idiot my best? Then, i just devolve into being the idiot, myself.
Ultimately, yes, but when you're starting out, the last thing you want to do is focus on growth. You have to develop leadership *before* you grow, or the most you'll manage to do is build something that recreates a slightly different version of the same old shit -- and by leadership I mean leading by example, which is the antithesis of the people who wield power in our name.
Posted August 22, 2018
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richlind33: I'm only interested in people that see through the institutional propaganda. It doesn't take that many "good" people to bring about change.
avatar
kohlrak: We need more than a handful of people, however. The temptation of the masses is tempting, too, especially when, at the end of the day, the nonsense and BS is going to be what you're going to have to go through to get anything done. Even I, myself, am often tempted to go full IDPol on people, especially if they're strawmanning me. Why give an idiot my best? Then, i just devolve into being the idiot, myself.
avatar
initialpresence: I'll be brief today for various reasons, but I do want to reply to you right now. I agree with your general premise. It's an extremely complex situation (although I'm trying to nutshell it here for expedience). Can people unite while at the same time acknowledging their differences and the fact that these differences seem to be genuinely irreconcilable? Appeal to the general future good of all of us? We have a long way to go. The problem lies with those who over the past century or so have seized control of the west and other parts of the world, combined with the general ignorance and apathy of the overwhelming majority of people and of course most of them have their everyday lives to deal with. As long as we have this illegitimate hostile "elite" running the show the future looks pretty grim for most of the world. Take back control from them and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that all else follows.What are the odds? Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets please!
avatar
kohlrak: It's only been the problem since before written history, but at least we have written history showing us making incredibly slow progress. They justify themselves by saying "look at the peons, see they are not even interested enough to dethrone us, so why should we let them have the power?" What kills me inside is, they're right. Why should the population have the power to rule if they refuse to use it? If people are willing to blindly vote on a singe letter, does not the population, as a whole, deserve the crap and troubles they're getting. On the other hand, what about those of us who are better than that? Why should we suffer for the average apathetic? How do you give the power to the unapathetic, or at least let the unapathetic have a place to go and be?
Ask Rudyard Kipling.
Posted August 23, 2018
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kohlrak: We need more than a handful of people, however. The temptation of the masses is tempting, too, especially when, at the end of the day, the nonsense and BS is going to be what you're going to have to go through to get anything done. Even I, myself, am often tempted to go full IDPol on people, especially if they're strawmanning me. Why give an idiot my best? Then, i just devolve into being the idiot, myself.
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richlind33: Ultimately, yes, but when you're starting out, the last thing you want to do is focus on growth. You have to develop leadership *before* you grow, or the most you'll manage to do is build something that recreates a slightly different version of the same old shit -- and by leadership I mean leading by example, which is the antithesis of the people who wield power in our name.
See, it's for this reason that I have become sympathetic to tribal warlords. Sure, it's horrible, overall, but as leaders and governors, they're not bad.

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kohlrak: We need more than a handful of people, however. The temptation of the masses is tempting, too, especially when, at the end of the day, the nonsense and BS is going to be what you're going to have to go through to get anything done. Even I, myself, am often tempted to go full IDPol on people, especially if they're strawmanning me. Why give an idiot my best? Then, i just devolve into being the idiot, myself.

It's only been the problem since before written history, but at least we have written history showing us making incredibly slow progress. They justify themselves by saying "look at the peons, see they are not even interested enough to dethrone us, so why should we let them have the power?" What kills me inside is, they're right. Why should the population have the power to rule if they refuse to use it? If people are willing to blindly vote on a singe letter, does not the population, as a whole, deserve the crap and troubles they're getting. On the other hand, what about those of us who are better than that? Why should we suffer for the average apathetic? How do you give the power to the unapathetic, or at least let the unapathetic have a place to go and be?
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initialpresence: Ask Rudyard Kipling.
Dropping this off on the wrong post? Thing is, we actually have separate cultures that are totally compatible: Asians and Whites, for example.
Posted August 24, 2018
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richlind33: Ultimately, yes, but when you're starting out, the last thing you want to do is focus on growth. You have to develop leadership *before* you grow, or the most you'll manage to do is build something that recreates a slightly different version of the same old shit -- and by leadership I mean leading by example, which is the antithesis of the people who wield power in our name.
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kohlrak: See, it's for this reason that I have become sympathetic to tribal warlords. Sure, it's horrible, overall, but as leaders and governors, they're not bad.

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initialpresence: Ask Rudyard Kipling.
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kohlrak: Dropping this off on the wrong post? Thing is, we actually have separate cultures that are totally compatible: Asians and Whites, for example.
You're joking? I suspect you live in a very racially homogenous area.
Posted August 26, 2018
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initialpresence: Ask Rudyard Kipling.
The White Man's Burden?

So colonialism was for their own good? o.O
Posted August 27, 2018
From the thread that was locked...
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initialpresence: Both are biased. True. Multiculturalism is about the cultural and racial destruction of European peoples and civilization. Once you have examined both more closey you realize the truth that those who you describe as "Eurocentric", merely wish to preserve their culture and halt the genetic annihilation of people of European (ie:white) racial and/or genetic identity. So whose side are you on? Those who wish to commit genocide or those against it?
You don't have to have a Eurocentric perspective to be opposed to multiculturalism. I oppose it because it's social engineering for the benefit of the elite; I am not, however, opposed to multiethnic societies. So no, it's not an either/or proposition.
Posted August 27, 2018
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initialpresence: Both are biased. True. Multiculturalism is about the cultural and racial destruction of European peoples and civilization. Once you have examined both more closey you realize the truth that those who you describe as "Eurocentric", merely wish to preserve their culture and halt the genetic annihilation of people of European (ie:white) racial and/or genetic identity. So whose side are you on? Those who wish to commit genocide or those against it?
Just wow. No wonder that thread was locked.
Posted August 27, 2018
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initialpresence: Both are biased. True. Multiculturalism is about the cultural and racial destruction of European peoples and civilization. Once you have examined both more closey you realize the truth that those who you describe as "Eurocentric", merely wish to preserve their culture and halt the genetic annihilation of people of European (ie:white) racial and/or genetic identity. So whose side are you on? Those who wish to commit genocide or those against it?
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SirPrimalform: Just wow. No wonder that thread was locked.
With such an appalling lack of empathy, it's no wonder that the human species is on the verge of extinction.
Posted August 27, 2018
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initialpresence: Ask Rudyard Kipling.
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richlind33: The White Man's Burden?

So colonialism was for their own good? o.O
That's not what that poem I have linked to is about. Sometimes called "the rath of the awakened Saxon" with the word "English" replaced by "Saxon". It is about the fact that Europeans/whites are extremely generous and will take a lot of crap, especially white men (especially from women) but there is a line to be crossed (somewhere, hopefully) when we say enough is enough. Watch the video right through, the gentleman who made it expresses things far more eloquently than I do - that's why I posted it here. Of course it can also be argued that colonialism did bring benefits (along with the negative aspects) with it.
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richlind33: From the thread that was locked...
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initialpresence: Both are biased. True. Multiculturalism is about the cultural and racial destruction of European peoples and civilization. Once you have examined both more closey you realize the truth that those who you describe as "Eurocentric", merely wish to preserve their culture and halt the genetic annihilation of people of European (ie:white) racial and/or genetic identity. So whose side are you on? Those who wish to commit genocide or those against it?
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richlind33: You don't have to have a Eurocentric perspective to be opposed to multiculturalism. I oppose it because it's social engineering for the benefit of the elite; I am not, however, opposed to multiethnic societies. So no, it's not an either/or proposition.
I'm not opposed to multi-ethnic states either. The fact is that every white nation is being turned into a multi-ethnic state and eventually whites will be in a minority in Europe, North American and Australia and New Zealand. At that point they will completey lose control of their nations. If you want to know what will happen look no further than South Africa. There are many people who hate us and speak very openly of genocide. People with infuence and power. Mainstream media effectively ignore what's happening in SA (with a few very rare exceptions).

Here are a few videos from the exellent Red Ice - they make high quality content on a shoestring budget. Each video is about ten minutes long. I've recommeded these ones but watch some more of their videos. Go to their website. They have a lot of material covering a huge range of subjects. Hopefully for some it may dispell some of the lies and nonsense propagated about ethno-nationalists, identitarians etc by mainstream media and others.

Ethno-States Will Never Work"

"You Want To Mass Murder Non-Whites"

They Want You Dead White Man

We're All Boers Now: Slow-Motion Genocide In South Africa & What You Can Do About It
Post edited August 27, 2018 by initialpresence
Posted August 27, 2018
And another thread gets utterly derailed. I'm starting to see the same people doing the same things even though they've been informed this is not allowed. Yet again, this thread will be locked. Users who keep derailing topics, even after PMing me and being told why threads are being locked, will be met with moderation.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionNot Happy(119 posts) (119 posts) 
(119 posts)