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Cryptocurrency already confuses me. I suppose this thread may have literal, "Old man yells at cloud" energy. My understanding is the following: Using mathematical hashes, calculations are made to resolve these hashes which then allows you to take a portion of ??? which has value because ???.

In essence, a MLM/Pyramid scheme for tech bros, as I understand it.

Thing is, all that processing power used could be used for other things like distributed computing, and the technology behind it used for some actual application.

Then there's NFT. Which is in essence, a dynamo labeler that uses all the power of Greenland to produce one label. Which idiots then can attempt to claim ownership over specific instances of things, without the actual credentials of ownership or sanity.

The idea could be used for smart contracts or unique ballots that could be verified as untampered.

But instead we have techbro art theft, thanks to the bad idea of some wastrel billionaire.

Goddammit. Technological innovation held back by Silicon Valley "Get Rich Quick" schemes.
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Darvond: Cryptocurrency already confuses me. I suppose this thread may have literal, "Old man yells at cloud" energy. My understanding is the following: Using mathematical hashes, calculations are made to resolve these hashes which then allows you to take a portion of ??? which has value because ???.
I don't even underst your understaning, let alone the actual thing :D And honestly, I really don't care. Or at least I wouldn't care if it wasn't for the disastrous effects all this nonsense appears to have for the environment. Other than that as far as I'm concerned people could have their weird cyberpunk-dogecoin-token-made-up-money-virtual-art schemes and buy someone's tweets or whatever to their hearts' content.
Post edited April 28, 2021 by Breja
Ive seen other artists I know dive into NFTs and make a load of money, only to be followed by lesser knowns who did not - but did later have other work stolen and successfully sold as NFTs. Aside from the energy costs, the whole fucking idea is stupid for anybody doing creative work - and therefore massively idiotic for any "collectors" out there.
Post edited April 28, 2021 by Sachys
In essence, you set your car in idle and it produces solved sudoku puzzles through the exhaust which you can exchange for heroin.

Though, I am biased, since I "earned" some money from this shit.

(Not from NFTs. Just the regular shit)
Post edited April 28, 2021 by Titanium
I can tell you something else about the missuse of blockchain.
An "startup" wanted to build the app you would use to show that you have been vaccinated against corona in germany.

At the start they purposed to use 5! blockchains for "security", until people who know what they do (so not this startup...) that they didn't used that stuff at all (and at best as some kind of normal database).
The idea was stupid from the start, because a blockchain can be read by anyone and throwing health data into something like that including names of people isn't very bright...

Now not a single blockchain is intended to be used...
I read somewhere that if someone wants to solve a problem using blockchain technology, they probably don't understand the problem.
I'll say this, I believe there is a legit way to create Crypto but this ain't it.

You could create legit physical infrastructure, art, innovations and the one who wins receives the bulk of the Crypto each time. Shit you could end up picking some Ballet prod., music video, etc. and that bulk would even be shared. Basically you'd set it up like Bitcoin or something else in that it would have a limiter so the scarcity would still create worth.
The bulk would distribute out based on the vote tally. I could get into the weeds more but whenever someone talks about stuff like this I think for most people, even smart people unless they're totally into it, sees eyes glaze over.
edit: I would add the obvious thing for something like this to work effectively would be connecting it into institutions people highly respect and have a stake in. I want to be clear this would NOT be some not for profit generally and for the ones around it would be local. Even after determining the scarcity for the time being an original value must be applied by the original institution giving it credibility. After this in trading it depends on the faith or support individuals wish to ascribe to it.
Post edited April 28, 2021 by Sarang
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Darvond: Cryptocurrency already confuses me. I suppose this thread may have literal, "Old man yells at cloud" energy. My understanding is the following: Using mathematical hashes, calculations are made to resolve these hashes which then allows you to take a portion of ??? which has value because ???.

In essence, a MLM/Pyramid scheme for tech bros, as I understand it.

Thing is, all that processing power used could be used for other things like distributed computing, and the technology behind it used for some actual application.

Then there's NFT. Which is in essence, a dynamo labeler that uses all the power of Greenland to produce one label. Which idiots then can attempt to claim ownership over specific instances of things, without the actual credentials of ownership or sanity.

The idea could be used for smart contracts or unique ballots that could be verified as untampered.

But instead we have techbro art theft, thanks to the bad idea of some wastrel billionaire.

Goddammit. Technological innovation held back by Silicon Valley "Get Rich Quick" schemes.
Primer

Transactions made with bitcoin need to be recorded in a ledger to keep it functional, legitimate, and secure. Except instead of all the transactions being processed through a cashier / bank / credit card, the info is kept in the blockchain that is being tracked by many, many miners instead of one institution. To ensure the value of bitcoin increases, there's a max supply ceiling. Once that ceiling is reached, no more bitcoins will be produced to ensure its price stabilizes and miners will be awarded with fiat currency transaction fees to continue maintaining the blockchain.

Nowadays, it's unprofitable to mine bitcoin for the average person. Really big mining farms with dedicated computers called ASICs in countries with extremely cheap electricity are profitable with these operations. Most average people who do mine are mining alternative cryptocurrency (altcoins) usually under a proof-of-work (POW) model.

In POW models, the blockchain spits out hashes (a hex code) for each transaction and all the miners connected to the network rush to solve the code using their GPUs simultaneously. The first GPU to solve the code is awarded with some cryptocurrency, usually bitcoin from the company managing that network or altcoin. This is the reason why it gets a lot of harsh criticism for its electricity usage because millions of GPUs on the network are trying to solve the hash inefficiently.

Some prominent altcoins acknowledge the issue and are switching over to proof-of-stake (POS) models that are much more energy efficient where the ledger will be checked every n transactions and the hash is much easier to solve without requiring multiple GPUs. Instead, miners will wager their coins and are proportionately awarded based on how much they wager if their ledgers are legitimate. If there's any fraud, that miner's coin stake is forfeited.

Mined or rewarded crytocurrency can be traded for real fiat currency on the market and interested buyers can also buy bitcoin or altcoins too like a commodity they can later sell when it increases in value. They don't have intrinsic value, but is entirely based on trust. For example, a $100 USD bill equivalent takes only $0.14 to mint, so people put $99.60 worth of trust into that bill when they use it that's backed by its government. In this case, people will put anywhere from $0.5-26.2k to mine one bitcoin depending on their costs and the remaining value of the bitcoin reflects the trust people have in the blockchain / decentralized ledger. The same principle applies for altcoin, but with smaller amounts compared to bitcoin.

Pros / Cons

Advocates for cryptocurrency claim the decentralized currency is a way for average folks to escape the fiscal and monetary influences of their government. There are incentives to use crypto if your currency is hyperinflated and you can't trust the value of your labour will be honoured if your currency is hyper volatile. The transactions were considered anonymous and secure from governments. It has also created a rise of millionaire investors who bought into the system very early considering bitcoins were worth very little when they started. They are also nice for people who want to subsidize their expensive GPU purchases.

The cons of the technology are its electricity consumption for POW models, which is equivalent to Switzerland's electricity consumption. Companies managing the exchanges or mining have had a history of being hacked and losing millions and billions. It is also used by some people for illicit transactions, such as drug and sex trafficking. The decentralization also means there's no regulation in the price, creating its price volatility. Just as some people have become millionaires from cryptocurrency, many people have lost heavily on their investments; this has been seen by critics as a transfer of wealth from companies and normal people to tech-literate people. People can lose their wallets. And lastly, how practical they are depends on how many businesses see its legitimacy and are willing to accept it as a form of payment.

Blockchain Technology Applications

Blockchain technology can make a difference in our lives. The most famous example is F@H run by global researchers. Instead of hashes being solicited by the blockchain, protein rendering requests are solicited for instead. People's GPUs will render the protein animations and will send the data back to the researchers for analysis to understand how proteins will interact with other proteins and viruses to better understand diseases like COVID-19, Alzheimer's, etc.

Please feel free to correct if I got anything wrong. I don't personally mine except for occasional contributions to F@H, but have curiosity in the technology.
Yeah I remember F@H being offered on the PS3 because of it's Parallel processing capabilities but I think you'll agree most Crypto doesn't work like that and really provide a service like what I suggested.

edit: Speaking of inflated costs of GPU's right now it looks like about the only reliable way to get some for a reasonable price is waiting until the new ones launch and finding places that you can pre-order from. I'm looking at a RTX3070Ti since that looks reasonable in price and I don't imagine finding a RTX3060 Ti any time soon. I'm sure the replacement of the 8 GB. GDDR6 to GDDR6X will definitely help.
Post edited April 28, 2021 by Sarang
Well, we could also say that playing games isn't exactly the most productive way to use our computer's power.
TBH, anytime I see a rant on the internet about the waste mining is (usually by those who want to buy a new GPU) I always think about playing games on max detail/ultra settings on top end desktops.

At the start of big bitcoin boom(2017), I asked a friend who was really into mining where the money comes from, what do they actually mine? There was a bit of discussion until I finally understand that there's no actually mining nor money or goods involved, only speculation. Lost my interest rght there.

I did mine a little using old hardware, donated most of it to Linux Mint...
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Dark_art_: Well, we could also say that playing games isn't exactly the most productive way to use our computer's power.
TBH, anytime I see a rant on the internet about the waste mining is (usually by those who want to buy a new GPU) I always think about playing games on max detail/ultra settings on top end desktops.

At the start of big bitcoin boom(2017), I asked a friend who was really into mining where the money comes from, what do they actually mine? There was a bit of discussion until I finally understand that there's no actually mining nor money or goods involved, only speculation. Lost my interest rght there.

I did mine a little using old hardware, donated most of it to Linux Mint...
Thanks, your next to last sentence distilled why I don't like it.

edit: Oops right before that.
Post edited April 29, 2021 by Sarang
I'm so confused.
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Darvond: Thing is, all that processing power used could be used for other things like distributed computing, and the technology behind it used for some actual application.
Exactly. Not only is it an impractical and harmful way of using technology, but it's something that was explicitly designed this way even when there were other options on the table... Chia being one cryptocurrency that will soon prove the point, albeit hogging storage space instead of compute cycles.

I have yet to see a revolutionary and productive use of blockchain outside of logistics and supply chain management. Well, there was this - probably the most original exploit anyone's come up with in a while.

In the tech space, blockchain was supposed to be a messiah, changing the way we do things forever. Turned out it's just a powervirus SDK and another tool for backing get rich quick schemes that will ultimately fall under corporate control.
Post edited April 29, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
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Darvond: In essence, a MLM/Pyramid scheme for tech bros, as I understand it.
Yeah, you just summed it up nicely right there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX9fRxVe6i0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSchm1VgMWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn_6pQZjNDE

First guy is rather smug but their arguments make sense to me.

Still NFTs sound pretty dumb as anything other than an alternative to physical art/luxury item merchandise and even then it's just like a silly status symbol that's meaningless to me personally.
Post edited April 29, 2021 by ResidentLeever