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Oh, this brings back memories. The one liners are classic:
Excellent advice sir, I will go and shoot her now.
Classic gaming!
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dudalb: Why don't they just post a patch with the fixes instead of the whole game? It's posting the whole game I have problems with>...that is pure piracy.
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mechmouse: I thinks that's the point, to make an unavailable game available again.

2 possible good outcomes.

1) Someone posts a cease and desist order, at which point the rights owner is found
or
2) No-one posts a cease and desist order, which after a while NOLF could be considered public domain.
Don't know much about the way copyright law works, do you?

A. any of the claimants can file a cease and desist order,,,,which would be enforced since the people who are posting the games clearly have no legal claim for the game. That would not determine ownership
If you bothered tp read the history of nolf on the rock paper scissors link, you would the problem is that ownership of the rights is divided among a number of people,

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dudalb: You have a right to protest if you don't violate pther people's rights while doing so. This clearly does that.
I am so sick and tired of pirates pretending to be standing up for a cause when all they really want is their games for free.
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phaolo: Read mechmouse's post.
in which he displays he does not know the basics of copyright law.
Post edited July 07, 2017 by dudalb
I think it's quite simple really.

The developers who actually made this game are long gone and wouldn't make a penny even if it was sold.
If the dummies who claim to own the rights to the game can't agree on who owns it, whether to sell, where to sell or at what price to sell - then that's their loss.
Every year they're losing what amounts to free money - doesn't matter if it's $10 of sales or $10,000 - currently they're making $0.

For the rest of us i.e. the players - NOLF deserves at least one play through.
Modern technology makes it easy to acquire it.
It's a wonderful FPS; feels like those classic Unreal / iD / 3D Realms shooters.

NOLF 2 isn't quite as good.
The RPG-lite skill system is half baked, the stealth and areas with respawning enemies ruin it.
Some of the maps feel a bit small as well.
The whole game has a slightly clunky feel to it.
It has it's moments of greatness (Ninja trailer park, early parts of Siberia) but on the whole the first game is the best.
I don't find it as humorous as the first either.

In cases like this when it's clear the copyright owners couldn't care less - the game copyright should expire immediately and source code should be made public.
It's absurd that so many games are left in an unplayable state with their source code not being made available or getting lost.
95/120 years for corporate created works is far too long; there should be some kind of maintenance clause.
Their investment in most cases will have long since been returned.
I'm certain we'll never see half the games on the community wishlist due to this kind of sillyness.
Post edited July 08, 2017 by mwnn
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phaolo: I think the point of their "protest" IS to post the full game.
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dudalb: You have a right to protest if you don't violate pther people's rights while doing so. This clearly does that.
I am so sick and tired of pirates pretending to be standing up for a cause when all they really want is their games for free.
When the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights is aggressively enforced is when I'll start giving half a fuck about copyright law. And don't give me any lip about downloading games for free, because I don't.
Post edited July 08, 2017 by richlind33
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mechmouse: I thinks that's the point, to make an unavailable game available again.

2 possible good outcomes.

1) Someone posts a cease and desist order, at which point the rights owner is found
or
2) No-one posts a cease and desist order, which after a while NOLF could be considered public domain.
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dudalb: Don't know much about the way copyright law works, do you?

A. any of the claimants can file a cease and desist order,,,,which would be enforced since the people who are posting the games clearly have no legal claim for the game. That would not determine ownership
If you bothered tp read the history of nolf on the rock paper scissors link, you would the problem is that ownership of the rights is divided among a number of people,

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phaolo: Read mechmouse's post.
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dudalb: in which he displays he does not know the basics of copyright law.
Sorry, I put short answers to complicated questions, my understanding of copyright law is above average having spent far too much time reading them.

YEs you are right anyone can post a C+D, but in doing so that person is opening themselves to a legal vector of enquiry. If the order is contested they have to prove they have a legal claim, thus IP owner is found. If they have no legal claim, then the C+D is invalid and unenforceable. Wait until the next person files a C+D.

I read the RPS link. the IP is spread between and passed through multiple hands, none of which will acknowledge any current rights over the IP. It could be any C+D issuer only has part claim, but the amount of their claim will be discovered when challenged.

The move is ballsy, and not something an established company could do, but it is still possible (and that is the most important word here, possible) that it could force a beneficial resolution.

AS for moving into public domain, that is far more complex, but there are more than enough copyrighted IP's that have been left by their owners which have effectively entered Public Domain before copyright has elapsed. Given enough time, anyone trying to claim legal ownership of these IP's would find their arguments undermined by their lack of action especially in the light of Night Dive's proactive attempts to source the IP owners.

I don't condone piracy, but it is obvious the laws or parties involved in this case are not working as intended.
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dudalb: Don't know much about the way copyright law works, do you?

A. any of the claimants can file a cease and desist order,,,,which would be enforced since the people who are posting the games clearly have no legal claim for the game. That would not determine ownership
If you bothered tp read the history of nolf on the rock paper scissors link, you would the problem is that ownership of the rights is divided among a number of people,

in which he displays he does not know the basics of copyright law.
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mechmouse: Sorry, I put short answers to complicated questions, my understanding of copyright law is above average having spent far too much time reading them.

YEs you are right anyone can post a C+D, but in doing so that person is opening themselves to a legal vector of enquiry. If the order is contested they have to prove they have a legal claim, thus IP owner is found. If they have no legal claim, then the C+D is invalid and unenforceable. Wait until the next person files a C+D.

I read the RPS link. the IP is spread between and passed through multiple hands, none of which will acknowledge any current rights over the IP. It could be any C+D issuer only has part claim, but the amount of their claim will be discovered when challenged.

The move is ballsy, and not something an established company could do, but it is still possible (and that is the most important word here, possible) that it could force a beneficial resolution.

AS for moving into public domain, that is far more complex, but there are more than enough copyrighted IP's that have been left by their owners which have effectively entered Public Domain before copyright has elapsed. Given enough time, anyone trying to claim legal ownership of these IP's would find their arguments undermined by their lack of action especially in the light of Night Dive's proactive attempts to source the IP owners.

I don't condone piracy, but it is obvious the laws or parties involved in this case are not working as intended.
5 star post, mechmouse. Thank you. ;p
Post edited July 08, 2017 by richlind33
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richlind33: 5 star post, mechmouse. Thank you. ;p
Shame really since I've made some glaring mistake

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dudalb: Snip
Just re-read your post and my reply.

Turns out I made a glaring mistake

Given a Cease and Desist order is effectively a letter saying "Stop or we'll sue", it has to either come from the IP owning company or on behalf of that company.

A complete stranger can't send a letter saying "Stop or someone will sue". Well they can, but it has no real affect.

Just to make that clear a C+D must come from on behalf of the IP holder.

Now a DMCA take down notice can be abused and sent by someone with no legal claim. DMCA take down notice is sent to the host or service provider, not to the the guys releasing the files. However if the take down is contested the service provider must take appropriate steps to ensure the take down notice is founded.
I think the interesting thing about this is to see which companies will send cease and desist letters. That will clarify who believes they have strong enough rights in this IP to make it worth paying a lawyer to do that.
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bluewave256: Cosa non ti è chiaro che era abbandonato su un muretto? Quei tizi prendono le cose dalla spazzatura e le rivendono.. Non è un reato.. Quindi non era illegalmente acquisito..

What are you not understanding? It was discarded on a wall.. Those people take things from the rubbish bins and resell them.. It is not a crime.. So it was not illegally acquired..

I never shop there because I do not want my orders canceled..
I only shop from Steam, GOG and sometimes Humble Bundle..
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tinyE: And illegal street vendors, which in turn makes you a criminal. Of course you can and you will deny this. I can deny the world is round. That won't change the fact that it is.

I'm not casting judgement on you for buying stolen games, I'm just pointing out the facts of the matter. This isn't a subjective. Purchasing knowingly stolen merchandise is theft. I for one don't care and don't think any less of you for doing it, but you are doing it none the less. My only real beef is how you condemn other people for doing something you are yourself doing.

But there is no point arguing it because you are just going to deny it and or twist the logic around to avoid having to face the truth.

Goodbye
Are illiterate or something? I never bought it.. I found it DISCARDED on a wall AFTER the market CLOSED..

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mechmouse: I thinks that's the point, to make an unavailable game available again.

2 possible good outcomes.

1) Someone posts a cease and desist order, at which point the rights owner is found
or
2) No-one posts a cease and desist order, which after a while NOLF could be considered public domain.
avatar
dudalb: Don't know much about the way copyright law works, do you?

A. any of the claimants can file a cease and desist order,,,,which would be enforced since the people who are posting the games clearly have no legal claim for the game. That would not determine ownership
If you bothered tp read the history of nolf on the rock paper scissors link, you would the problem is that ownership of the rights is divided among a number of people,

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phaolo: Read mechmouse's post.
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dudalb: in which he displays he does not know the basics of copyright law.
You know the law of the United States of America is not the law of the world? There are also other legistations about piracy in the world.. With different rules.. Try sending a cease and desist letter in Italy.. lol
Post edited July 10, 2017 by bluewave256
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bluewave256: I found it DISCARDED on a wall AFTER the market CLOSED
So you stole it?
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bluewave256: You know the law of the United States of America is not the law of the world? There are also other legistations about piracy in the world.. With different rules.. Try sending a cease and desist letter in Italy.. lol
As I know there are different stages of copyright protection, how you can protect your product. You can have a copyright protection for only one country or worldwide. NOLF was sold worldwide so I think it has a worldwide copyright protection. The worldwide protection is based on several international copyright treaties. They define which law counts. For example the Berne Convention sais that the law of the origin country counts. Others say something different. Maybe it also depends on which treaty was singned or not signed from your country's government.
It's not that easy. ;)
Post edited July 10, 2017 by Silverhawk170485
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bluewave256: You know the law of the United States of America is not the law of the world? There are also other legistations about piracy in the world.. With different rules.. Try sending a cease and desist letter in Italy.. lol
I've read both US and EU copyright laws, and I'm from the UK
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KoreaBeat: I think the interesting thing about this is to see which companies will send cease and desist letters. That will clarify who believes they have strong enough rights in this IP to make it worth paying a lawyer to do that.
Warner Bros. is the one that applied to extend their expired trademark of the name so most likely them, although they didn't claim ownership of the game.

Activision and Fox seem to be quite indifferent about the whole thing (probably until money is made).
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richlind33: 5 star post, mechmouse. Thank you. ;p
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mechmouse: Shame really since I've made some glaring mistake
Always nice when you catch a mistake before anyone else does. ;p
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bluewave256: I found it DISCARDED on a wall AFTER the market CLOSED
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Kleetus: So you stole it?
I repeat the story as it seems you have brain problems:
1) Someone decided did not want his copy of Diablo and discarded it in the garbage bin.
2) Someone picked up from the garbage bin and tried to sell it in the flea market.
3) They did not succeed in selling it so they abandoned it on a wall.
4) I picked it up.

So it was not stolen because it did not have a property.

It was ABANDONED, DISCARDED. Any other word I should use so you can understand?

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bluewave256: You know the law of the United States of America is not the law of the world? There are also other legistations about piracy in the world.. With different rules.. Try sending a cease and desist letter in Italy.. lol
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Silverhawk170485: As I know there are different stages of copyright protection, how you can protect your product. You can have a copyright protection for only one country or worldwide. NOLF was sold worldwide so I think it has a worldwide copyright protection. The worldwide protection is based on several international copyright treaties. They define which law counts. For example the Berne Convention sais that the law of the origin country counts. Others say something different. Maybe it also depends on which treaty was singned or not signed from your country's government.
It's not that easy. ;)
At EU level the sovereign country counts first.. So in this case italian law applies first.
Anyway in Italy the fact that there is a law does not mean it is respected.. Going outside home I can spot at least 10 violations of the law every time and NO ONE give a shit about it.
Example: A pizza shop used a copyrighted image taken from Google Images.. No one says anything about it.. And if the police would try to close the shop people would rightly rebel against it because you are trying to close the source of money of a family or even two or three.. For an image.. Normal people do not know anything about copyright especially about image copyright..
Example 2: Police cars parked over places where you cannot park..
Example 3: Taking things from rubbish bins and resell them.
Example 4: African illegal immigrants selling chinese counterfeit merchandise in one of the main streets.
Example 5: People in cars with music too loud.
Example 6: Chinese people in shops doing things they do not have the license for.. For example sewing in a shop that resells counterfeit chinese merchandise in a main street in daylight with no one saying anything..
People should understand you cannot take away the things that provide for income for people because there are "laws".. The will of the people and the benefit of all comes first..
That doesnt mean there arent sometimes check or even closings of these places.. But not so much..

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bluewave256: You know the law of the United States of America is not the law of the world? There are also other legistations about piracy in the world.. With different rules.. Try sending a cease and desist letter in Italy.. lol
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mechmouse: I've read both US and EU copyright laws, and I'm from the UK
And the UK is not Europe now and wasnt even in the past because even if it was in the EU like Denmark it had various exceptions.. So your example doesnt fit very well..
Anyway at EU level sovereign country applies first and read the post above in Italy if there is a law doesnt mean is applied every time..
Post edited July 10, 2017 by bluewave256