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General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: Hi everyone, Beaubergine from the GOG Support Staff here. Bringing in a few words from our side :

GOG.COM remains a DRM-free store, this will not change. We are committed to bringing you more AAAs, great indies and all-time classics free of any DRM or mandatory clients. I know that actions speak louder than words, so I hope that the fact we’ve just released a DRM-free version of Baldur’s Gate 3 (from recent bigger titles also Control and Serious Sam 4), and that all time classics such as the Metal Gear series and Silent Hill 4 appearing in our store is proof enough of that.
On the other hand, helping gamers to have their whole gaming library in one place is one of the goals of GOG GALAXY and the store inside the application (which is currently in its test phase) is an extension of that. As always the choice is yours - you can stick to the GOG.COM store or use the GOG GALAXY app for additional features such as cloud saves, achievements etc.
Thank you for the reply but unfortunately once again you managed to miss the point and one of the most important questions: are the epic games you intend to bring to Galaxy and therefore to GOG only those that are DRM-free or are you in fact including DRM'd games and therefore support DRM'd games on GOG? As it has been said, it is one thing to give gamers the opportunity to have all their games in one launcher but a different thing to let gamers buy DRM'd games through GOG (Galaxy) and supporting DRM'd games.

Whatever the answer is: I am really happy to finally see some blue text here, thank you once again for going this step.
Post edited October 15, 2020 by MarkoH01
Posted October 15, 2020
high rated
The more relevant question is, as others already mentioned, why should developers and/ or publishers decide to release a drm-free version of their game once they sell it through Galaxy drm-ridden?

And why do you support epic titles even though you already are spread thin?

I honestly don't think that these questions will be answered, but thanks for the response.

One last thing, 2 weeks without addressing these issues at all really didn't do you any good. :/
Post edited October 15, 2020 by NuffCatnip
Posted October 15, 2020
high rated
Let's be realistic: A unifying store in a competitive market? It'll never work; wake up and smell the ashes!

Gog won't grow fast enough to become a major player. They have proved time & time again that whoever is making these decisions just can't seem to balance scaling staff & hiring sufficient talent with the implementation of these new 'features' ( oh hello drm free video store! )

Whoever makes these business decisions for gog cannot strike that balance & it seems to be either through inexperience or apathy (only caring about boosting their money short term before jumping their sinking ship).

If a game is available on multiple stores (gog, uplay, epic) who's release takes priority? The one that pays you the most money?

How will you stop this from being detrimental to you own store & releases? Do you even care?

The one and only thing gog has going for it is the identity carved out in the early days, an identity which is rapidly fading.

Gog was a labour of love once and it showed; I really miss that.
Post edited October 15, 2020 by serpantino
Posted October 15, 2020
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AB2012: [...]
Would we still have a GOG version of Control if Control had previously been sold as an "Epic-Galaxy" version?
[...]
as Control is DRM free on Epic - does it really matter? or is store branding more important than DRM?
Posted October 15, 2020
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AB2012: [...]
Would we still have a GOG version of Control if Control had previously been sold as an "Epic-Galaxy" version?
[...]
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amok: as Control is DRM free on Epic - does it really matter? or is store branding more important than DRM?
Let's see - DRM free on GOG = have to use 0 clients. "DRM-free" on Epic through Galaxy = have to use 2 clients. Yep, I'd say it matters.
Post edited October 15, 2020 by Breja
Posted October 15, 2020
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MarkoH01: And I thought we told them how to disarm such a situation just a few years ago ... I wonder if they did not listen or simply lost their notes. Sorry, but the whole idea of this event back then was to fix such situations and to learn how to approach your customer base. It was a great experience, no doubt - but did they really not learn anything?
I agree and honestly I never understood why they didn't "use" us more (or at all), I mean we signed a NDA so they could have used us are a barometer to gauge the community reaction for some their new features/ decisions before releasing them to the public. While I don't pretend that we represent 100% of the Gog community I still think that a lot of the "controversies/shitstorm" could have been avoided or at least lowered in intensity.

But yes I don't know what happened, is it really the Twitter controversies that put a full stop or is it a lack a resources that had them concentrate what they had on Galaxy and less on the community part or is it a mix of both.
Posted October 15, 2020
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amok: as Control is DRM free on Epic - does it really matter? or is store branding more important than DRM?
That was merely one example. And of course it matters for several reasons - 1. Not all Epic Games are DRM-Free. 2. Some Epic Games are DRM-Free base game only but not DLC. 3. Some are only part functional, eg, Journey can be "played" DRM-Free but it won't save the game unless the Epic Launcher is running (same issue as the "DRM-Free" Steam version of Cognition), making it practically not DRM-Free. And I'm the guy who created and maintains this list, so I'm not clueless about what does and doesn't run without clients plus the various "It's DRM-Free, but..." nuances where merely starting and reaching the main menu isn't the same as playing it and have it save correctly.

What's more the DRM-Free-ness of any Steam / Epic game can change at any time in a future patch and they are not sold as, nor legally guaranteed to remain DRM-Free. GOG selling Epic Games via Galaxy that "might" remain DRM-Free but then also legally promising to support them without having any direct contract with the publisher is a far worse position to be in vs just being a Steam key seller. Eg, GOG's going to end up looking rather silly if they sell a "DRM-Free" Epic game on Galaxy but then the developer adds DRM in a future patch and the publisher says "Well our contract is with Epic Games not you and it says nothing about requiring DRM-Free. If you as a secondary sub-contractor / reseller promised something you couldn't guarantee, then it's up to you to refund them out of your own pocket..."

You're missing the point though it could be the start of a slippery slope of a new "drought" of 'proper' GOG releases if by your own words "does it really matter" if publishers stop making GOG builds en masse?
Post edited October 15, 2020 by AB2012
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: ...
I think a lot of misunderstanding / fear comes from the way Gog will be handling those "Galaxy Store" games rather than being able to use Galaxy to purchase games from other stores.

I think it would have been a lot easier for peoples to understand if it was simply an external store accessible from Galaxy but everything was handled by Epic (using some API), as in Galaxy is only a platform to allow you to purchase a game on Epic store, once the payment is complete the game is added to your Epic account, Gog doesn't have anything to do with it it's totally transparent, the game is following the Terms and Condition of Epic, supported by Epic, and that's it.

Here you chose some sore of weird "bastard / in between" approach where it's the Epic store but for only a list of curated games, curated by Gog, when games are sold they are supported by Gog, they have the same refund condition than Gog games and Gog gets some money out of it.

So for peoples it's not "you can use Galaxy to purchase games on Epic store" but more "Gog is selling DRMed games, making money out of them, supporting them even thought the support is already overloaded, and with the same refund condition than Gog games" so in short for them it means that Gog has become a key reseller like Gamersgate, Humble Store, etc...

That's the main issue a lot of peoples have and something you didn't touch at all in your post, the problem is not that it's possible to purchase games from the Epic store in Galaxy, it's that those games are sold by Gog.
Posted October 15, 2020
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AB2012: [...]

You're missing the point though it could be the start of a slippery slope of a new "drought" of 'proper' GOG releases if by your own words "does it really matter" if publishers stop making GOG builds en masse?
as long as they are DRMfree, then no - I don't think it matters which store sells them
Posted October 15, 2020
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amok: as long as they are DRMfree, then no - I don't think it matters which store sells them
I disagree, the big difference between DRM-free games on Gog and DRM-free games on Steam or Epic for example is that those games are "officially" DRM-free on Gog and advertised as such while on most other store they just happen to be DRM-free but you don't know if it's on purpose, a mistake or, what happen sometime, somebody that reported the game as being DRM-free even though it is not. (something that happen from time to time even on the DRM-free Steam games thread on this very forum)
Posted October 15, 2020
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amok: as long as they are DRMfree, then no - I don't think it matters which store sells them
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Gersen: I disagree, the big difference between DRM-free games on Gog and DRM-free games on Steam or Epic for example is that those games are "officially" DRM-free on Gog and advertised as such while on most other store they just happen to be DRM-free but you don't know if it's on purpose, a mistake or, what happen sometime, somebody that reported the game as being DRM-free even though it is not. (something that happen from time to time even on the DRM-free Steam games thread on this very forum)
DRM free is DRM free, that's all I care sbout
Posted October 15, 2020
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amok: as long as they are DRMfree, then no - I don't think it matters which store sells them

DRM free is DRM free, that's all I care sbout
It doesn't matter to you personally, but many others can see beyond the end of their noses. Eg, replace the example of "Control" I gave with "The Talos Principle" and the answer to "as long as they are DRMfree elsewhere" is "well, it isn't, so now what?". Which is why it's important to keep proper GOG releases coming, which may be less likely in future from the publishers (not your) point of view. It's not the games that are on GOG today before this starts up that concern people, but possible future acquisitions like perhaps The Talos Principle 2 that may not get a proper DRM-Free GOG release if the publisher feels they can get away with doing an Epic build for both stores (which just like The Talos Principle 1, may not be DRM-Free anywhere but GOG).
Post edited October 15, 2020 by AB2012
Posted October 15, 2020
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EnforcerSunWoo: ...I personally miss the differences in sales techniques and types from years back. At least then there was something different going on. Something else to be excited by other than just a surprise release here and there...
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Panaias: Remember the insomnia sales back then?
It was not only the sale format that seemed fresh, but also the whole atmosphere in the forums where staff members also participated actively to help, chat and clarify things.
It was the fun of expecting the next game reveal together with other users, without even talking in real time.
I mean, there aren't any more legendary moments such as the "Keane incident" back then.
Now that we are talking about it, I realize better that most of my purchases back then were because it felt good to be here, not because I couldn't get these games from other stores.
For me there was even more of a reason to support GOG during those days. Many users were on friendly terms with staff members as you have stated. You knew that the people working there were proud of their work, and for many I personally spoke to it wasn't just a job for them. They were happy to bring back classic titles and be a part of the community. That all got lost thanks to shitty politics and that is why it seems like GOG lost focus when it came to staff participation within the community.

I would like GOG to return to have some aspects of this once again, even if it would be limited. I mean cut the goddamn shackles off your employees GOG! Some of them probably would like to be able to speak freely once again, and no, I do not mean breaking NDAs or the like. Just bring back that part of larger community by allowing them to participate in discussion once again.

Seems like today's outcome with one of the blues is a step in the right direction. At the very least they appear to be ready to start fielding questions and concerns once again. I just hope that after this is over the blues don't pull a Houdini and go back into hiding.
Post edited October 15, 2020 by EnforcerSunWoo
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: [snip]
Thank you very much for taking the time to post here. I do still remain concerned, but it definitely helps to at least have some kind of back-and-forth dialogue (one would think a business would value the user feedback type of "data" just like they value trusted partner Facebook data, client usage statistics, etc but I digress).

I am hoping you or another staff member can respond to some of the other concerns raised in this topic (summarized again by users after your post). I don't think any of us doubt that GOG.com is generally committed to DRM-free in the present day (well, other than the No Man's Sky thing..which to my knowledge staff haven't addressed).

It's more a concern for the future. We already get the sense it's like pulling teeth to get some of these developers and publishers to dare release an honest-to-god DRM-free version with offline installer. The inference we're making is that it is going to be even harder to get such releases going forward, particularly the AAAs.
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: Hi everyone, Beaubergine from the GOG Support Staff here. Bringing in a few words from our side :

GOG.COM remains a DRM-free store, this will not change. We are committed to bringing you more AAAs, great indies and all-time classics free of any DRM or mandatory clients. I know that actions speak louder than words, so I hope that the fact we’ve just released a DRM-free version of Baldur’s Gate 3 (from recent bigger titles also Control and Serious Sam 4), and that all time classics such as the Metal Gear series and Silent Hill 4 appearing in our store is proof enough of that.
On the other hand, helping gamers to have their whole gaming library in one place is one of the goals of GOG GALAXY and the store inside the application (which is currently in its test phase) is an extension of that. As always the choice is yours - you can stick to the GOG.COM store or use the GOG GALAXY app for additional features such as cloud saves, achievements etc.
I can totally understand the frustration some of you may feel while waiting for a response from our GOG.COM Support Staff. It does take us longer than usual to reply, due to record-high ticket volumes we’re still facing. With that in mind, some tickets indeed are given a higher priority over others. This however has nothing to do with whether the user is using our app or not.
Not going into too many details, for example a username change request will have a lower priority than a refund request. Support tickets are received in a common inbox and later are divided into different categories (e.g. technical, refunds, account-related) and then answered in order of submission. We’ve also added an auto-responder to help us deal with the situation caused by the unusually high influx of support tickets received, but we are still trying our best to have an individual & personal approach to each ticket (On that last note, I'd like to remind everyone to carefully read those automated messages as they often either guide our users to helpful pages or require an answer in order for your request to be processed).
GOG.COM Support Staff is committed to answer every request and, again, I apologize for the delays you've been facing. I know this situation is not ideal but we’re trying our best to reply to your inquiries as quickly as it is currently possible.
Finally, I’d like to thank you. I know that we’re not as often replying to your posts on the forums (we’re in the process of changing that), we’re reading your feedback and concerns, which are both a reminder of how much you care.
Unidentified feelings discovered in mind case... processing information...
getting emotional... going to park for a while to dream... Thank You! <3
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)