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General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 14, 2020
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amok: Yes, it is now finally time to make them feel how low they have become - mock their name! May I suggest Grog, grab, glib, phug or something similar
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rjbuffchix: That habit of mine really seems to stick in your craw. Anyway, I think another user already came up with Games On Galaxy. Seems very apt.
it is not a habbit, it is kindergarten mentality
Posted October 14, 2020
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EnforcerSunWoo: ...
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Panaias: Exactly, both.

Back then it felt kind of like home, for games I mean. The staff were part of the community and this, in turn, made me more confident in supporting them (i.e. buying games here).

Now it's turning more and more into a faceless corporate store. I am not going to the far extreme and say that I'll stop buying games right now because of that, but I am certainly not sure if it's going to be all nice and convincing in the foreseeable future.
Cold and corporate seems to be the way things have been moving for a long time. As certain staff members left we also lost a lot of what made GOG unique and special. Everything is so by the book now it is to the point of being horribly boring around here. It is just getting to be the same cookie cutter bullshit day in, day out around here for years. With GOG just going through the motions and turning themselves into a generic store front. The sense of community left through little things over the years, but there are certain instances when big changes were made and not for the better.

I personally miss the differences in sales techniques and types from years back. At least then there was something different going on. Something else to be excited by other than just a surprise release here and there.

Anyhow, GOG isn't the same place that I joined many years ago and it has largely to do with the attitude of how to deal with the customer base. I sound like a broken record at this point, but communication is key, once that ceases then all hope is lost to repair issues with a disgruntled customer base.
Posted October 14, 2020
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EnforcerSunWoo: but communication is key, once that ceases then all hope is lost to repair issues with a disgruntled customer base.
Exactly. As said in this topic earlier by a mod even every time GOG do something new we get complaints.

The reason is that. GOG force it. They claim to be for Gamers.

DRM is not for Gamers. No communication is not for Gamers.

A general community that pretty much runs itself, as staff seem to be forbidden to take part as they once where due to (as it seems) offending someone (because a site that is known for making issues bigger than they are and break the law, so you should even be listing to them.) Most people were not even offended.

A community that now has to rely on other people supporting Linux (which GOG actually once actually supported they even had a staff member on top of that when I first started), and relying on the community to provide fixes for your own website.

Your own website that is customer un-friendly and still has issues when it was done which have not be resolved.

A forum that time and time again was supposed to be updated and fixed which never happened.

And I've most likely missed more stuff.

Its not tough to see why GOG are not as popular with Gamers as they were or claim to be.
Post edited October 14, 2020 by RoboPond
Posted October 14, 2020
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rjbuffchix: That habit of mine really seems to stick in your craw. Anyway, I think another user already came up with Games On Galaxy. Seems very apt.
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amok: it is not a habbit, it is kindergarten mentality
Nuh uh, IS NOT!

Add GOGaaS to the list.
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RoboPond: Its not tough to see why GOG are not as popular with Gamers as they were or claim to be.
Their front page says this place is for gamers. I say at this point this place is for shareholders.
Post edited October 14, 2020 by rjbuffchix
Posted October 14, 2020
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EnforcerSunWoo: but communication is key, once that ceases then all hope is lost to repair issues with a disgruntled customer base.
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RoboPond: Exactly. As said in this topic earlier by a mod even every time GOG do something new we get complaints.

The reason is that. GOG force it. They claim to be for Gamers.

DRM is not for Gamers. No communication is not for Gamers.

A general community that pretty much runs itself, as staff seem to be forbidden to take part as they once where due to (as it seems) offending someone (because a site that is known for making issues bigger than they are and break the law, so you should even be listing to them.) Most people were not even offended.

A community that now has to rely on other people supporting Linux (which GOG actually once actually supported they even had a staff member on top of that when I first started), and relying on the community to provide fixes for your own website.

Your own website that is customer un-friendly and still has issues when it was done which have not be resolved.

A forum that time and time again was supposed to be updated and fixed which never happened.

And I've most likely missed more stuff.

Its not tough to see why GOG are not as popular with Gamers as they were or claim to be.
The problem is that every time that GOG does something new it is like they are seeing how far they can stick their head up their own ass. It doesn't help that there is absolutely zero communication with the user base here to the point of where one doesn't even know what they are contemplating for the future. I personally think that most of the true gamers within GOG, the people that really believed in what GOG stood for stopped working for them quite some time ago.

What we are looking at is a hollowed out shell with eroded ideals that do not have a place within the current business model. We all should of known something was up when they reeled in any blue that was brazen enough to shoot the shit around here.
Posted October 15, 2020
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Shanuca: I really hope that the ppl saying they will stop buying from GOG because of this take a moment to think again. There's not many DRM free stores out there.
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rjbuffchix: And I wish GOG would have taken a moment to think again. I've been here all along waiting to buy DRM-free offline installers of games (the modern equivalent of buying relatively-unencumbered physical releases back in the day). The way I see it, GOG the company now is no different than the companies of the past and present who abandoned DRM-free gaming for Steamworks and other such DRM schemes. They are the ones abandoning us, not vice versa.

You are correct on the last point and I would frame it as: GOG.com is the sole DRM-free store that sells a large quantity of big releases. That is what differentiates it as there are other much smaller DRM-free stores that do not sell the big name releases. Unfortunately the company apparently does not see this as a unique selling point and doesn't want us coming here for that. They want "the mother of all clients" to be their selling point, it seems. Can't say I get it.
they haven't abandoned us.

but they still release games drm-free regularly. they haven't stopped and they haven't allowed the devs to implement drm (yeah yeah i know about the whole no man's sky thing).

admittedly the whole epic thing is shady hell and ive got my eyes on it; i've also done some negative speculating of my own. but i don't think it's wise to jump to conclusions. after all, what shanuca says is very true; it's not like there are drm-free store fronts coming out of the woodwork (especially one that sell a fair amount of triple-a titles).

i think it'd be good if everyone took a 'wait and see' approach. that said, i'm not a client guy myself and am definitely not going to buy any epic/gog abomination games.
Post edited October 15, 2020 by fortune_p_dawg
Posted October 15, 2020
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EnforcerSunWoo: ...I personally miss the differences in sales techniques and types from years back. At least then there was something different going on. Something else to be excited by other than just a surprise release here and there...
Remember the insomnia sales back then?
It was not only the sale format that seemed fresh, but also the whole atmosphere in the forums where staff members also participated actively to help, chat and clarify things.
It was the fun of expecting the next game reveal together with other users, without even talking in real time.
I mean, there aren't any more legendary moments such as the "Keane incident" back then.
Now that we are talking about it, I realize better that most of my purchases back then were because it felt good to be here, not because I couldn't get these games from other stores.
Posted October 15, 2020
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Hi everyone, Beaubergine from the GOG Support Staff here. Bringing in a few words from our side :

GOG.COM remains a DRM-free store, this will not change. We are committed to bringing you more AAAs, great indies and all-time classics free of any DRM or mandatory clients. I know that actions speak louder than words, so I hope that the fact we’ve just released a DRM-free version of Baldur’s Gate 3 (from recent bigger titles also Control and Serious Sam 4), and that all time classics such as the Metal Gear series and Silent Hill 4 appearing in our store is proof enough of that.
On the other hand, helping gamers to have their whole gaming library in one place is one of the goals of GOG GALAXY and the store inside the application (which is currently in its test phase) is an extension of that. As always the choice is yours - you can stick to the GOG.COM store or use the GOG GALAXY app for additional features such as cloud saves, achievements etc.
I can totally understand the frustration some of you may feel while waiting for a response from our GOG.COM Support Staff. It does take us longer than usual to reply, due to record-high ticket volumes we’re still facing. With that in mind, some tickets indeed are given a higher priority over others. This however has nothing to do with whether the user is using our app or not.
Not going into too many details, for example a username change request will have a lower priority than a refund request. Support tickets are received in a common inbox and later are divided into different categories (e.g. technical, refunds, account-related) and then answered in order of submission. We’ve also added an auto-responder to help us deal with the situation caused by the unusually high influx of support tickets received, but we are still trying our best to have an individual & personal approach to each ticket (On that last note, I'd like to remind everyone to carefully read those automated messages as they often either guide our users to helpful pages or require an answer in order for your request to be processed).
GOG.COM Support Staff is committed to answer every request and, again, I apologize for the delays you've been facing. I know this situation is not ideal but we’re trying our best to reply to your inquiries as quickly as it is currently possible.
Finally, I’d like to thank you. I know that we’re not as often replying to your posts on the forums (we’re in the process of changing that), we’re reading your feedback and concerns, which are both a reminder of how much you care.
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: (...)
On the other hand, helping gamers to have their whole gaming library in one place is one of the goals of GOG GALAXY and the store inside the application (which is currently in its test phase) is an extension of that. As always the choice is yours - you can stick to the GOG.COM store or use the GOG GALAXY app for additional features such as cloud saves, achievements etc.
(...)
Hello
I think the main problem is that many of us, grumpy old users, expected Galaxy to be extension of GOG and its values, not an extension of other stores and their values. And that the choice would remain between GOG ecosystem and other stores, not between GOG.com itself and GOG client with tentacles of other stores wrapped around it. You're making this distinction completely blurred which caused this wave of complaints.
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: ...I know that we’re not as often replying to your posts on the forums (we’re in the process of changing that), we’re reading your feedback and concerns, which are both a reminder of how much you care.
Thanks for replying and I wish this happened more often, like it used to. It shows another level of relationship between GOG and the userbase. We are here and we hope you are too.

Since you dropped in to say a few words, would you care to also share a few words on the (already infinitely discussed) topic of backing up our offline installer files? We know about Galaxy, hope it goes well for you and people that use it. But there are users (like me) who loved the old GOG downloader, which unfortunately was dropped. So my question is, will there be another convenient way to check updates and backup our installers without using a whole client just for that? If not, will Galaxy be available in some kind of "lite" form that can be used for such tasks (without store integration, achievements, tracking and other stuff that many people do not care about)? Thank you.
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: GOG.COM remains a DRM-free store, this will not change. We are committed to bringing you more AAAs, great indies and all-time classics free of any DRM or mandatory clients.
Triple A like in "BAtmAn ArkhAm series" (okay, that's technically a quadruple A, but that's even better, right?) ;)

According to me you can do whatever you want, as long as I get my drm-free offline installers. :)
Post edited October 15, 2020 by Pygmalion_4678
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: ...
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InkPanther: I think the main problem is that many of us, grumpy old users, expected Galaxy to be extension of GOG and its values
And that regardless of Galaxy, the offline installers (and their users) are given first class treatment. It wouldn't even be a stretch to say we expect them to get more love and better support over time. For example, more choice between patches and full downloads would be welcomed by some users, given the huge size of recent games. In the past, you could get old versions by asking support (or so I hear). And I expected that one day GOG would give us a Good News thread announcing support for directly downloading old versions (and/or upgrade & downgrade patch installers).

Instead the direction's been that everything is focused on Galaxy. You want to download old versions? Get Galaxy. You don't want outdated or broken versions? Use Galaxy. Want to try a new beta? Use Galaxy. There are users that feel, for all the money they put into supporting GOG, they get second class treatment as GOG funnels it all into Galaxy. And now they are selling and supporting EPIC games with DRM. Is that what my money goes towards when I buy games on GOG.com? What's the next stage? Galaxy & EPIC users get first class support and offline installers are pushed further towards the bottom of the barrel? More DRM-exclusive features for Galaxy users?

I've said it before, I don't have a problem with the concept of a universal client application that supports all stores. I just don't care enough to put my money towards supporting it, especially when other things that I do care about continue to be neglected and unimplemented. I also don't feel particularly good about GOG either losing or making money selling games with DRM; the former hurts those who are supporting GOG solely for DRM-free games, while the latter feels unethical given what GOG supposedly stands for. I agree with everyone who's voiced the concern that selling games with DRM on Galaxy is potentially discouraging publishers from releasing DRM-free games for GOG.com users as long as people around the world have the strong association that GOG Galaxy = GOG.com. That is the association GOG has built by aggressively pushing users towards Galaxy while funneling their money into its development.

If you can break that association and make sure that when I support GOG.com by purchasing games here, I know that the money goes towards the GOG.com features and games and support, and not into Galaxy, then I'm still here. I don't feel particularly welcome here right now.
Post edited October 15, 2020 by clarry
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: On the other hand, helping gamers to have their whole gaming library in one place is one of the goals of GOG GALAXY and the store inside the application (which is currently in its test phase) is an extension of that. As always the choice is yours - you can stick to the GOG.COM store or use the GOG GALAXY app for additional features such as cloud saves, achievements etc.
About that, what happens when the Epic store feature of Galaxy takes off and developers start to see how they no longer need to make offline DRM free installers direct to GOG because they can technically supply games to both Epic and GOG simultaneously via Galaxy?

What happens then? Where then is the incentive for them to help you stay DRM free?

Publishers like to cut costs and maximize profits at every turn and this is almost an inevitable outcome. I don't think GOG has thought through the long term impact of their decisions here. Unless of course that decision has a final goal of reducing GOG.com to nothing more than a place to download Galaxy.
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: Hi everyone, Beaubergine from the GOG Support Staff here. Bringing in a few words from our side.
Thank you for opening communication with us!

If you can, I'd like to hear a reply to this post:
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clarry: -snip-
Us old-fashioned grumpers could use some more assuaging when it comes to what GOG's values were, and hopefully are, and even will continue to be.
We care about DRM-free Offline-installers, of which you have assured us will remain (Thank you!)(and stand-alone patches?).
What we see as the problem though is indeed the second-rate treatment, and the fear of publishers releasing a Galaxy only game version.
Indeed, answering all the eloquently put questions by Clarry would not go amiss. ^^
Posted October 15, 2020
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Beaubergine: GOG.COM remains a DRM-free store, this will not change. We are committed to bringing you more AAAs, great indies and all-time classics free of any DRM or mandatory clients.
Thank you for replying. I think many users (including myself) are more concerned about longer-term impact on GOG acquisitions than internal branding, how this change is presented today or the fear we'll suddenly see Denuvo'd games on GOG.com. Eg, the initial decision to sell Epic Games via Galaxy may be GOG's today, but in the long run if publishers figure out that it costs them less to support one version for two stores (Epic & Epic-on-Galaxy) vs two versions, (and maybe they even make more profit via Epic's lower 12% cut), then the ability to bring more future games to GOG.com may be out of GOG's hands if publishers start telling people "Hi, we're technically already selling that game on Galaxy. Simply enable visibility in Galaxy, and click Buy..." as a substitute to making a proper GOG release.

The real question - How many publishers are willing to go back and re-release a second "proper GOG" version on the same platform the first version is still being sold on? Would we still have a GOG version of Control if Control had previously been sold as an "Epic-Galaxy" version? It's the most obvious example of how GOG.com vs Galaxy are not really as isolated or "ring-fenced" from each other for future acquisition as GOG's marketing dept wishes them to be if you basically make it cheaper for the publishers to release as Epic-on-Galaxy instead of "actual GOG" versions, but hope they will continue to do the more expensive route, which obviously impacts all GOG users (Galaxy & GOG.com alike) at the same time.
Post edited October 15, 2020 by AB2012
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)