Sorry but I didn't understand this part.

Just because party X got away with fraud does NOT mean you should just let this kind of crap fly on party Z.

No, actually, I am speaking about existing consumer protection practises. Perhaps where you live they don't take place or you was denied them in unjustified way. I don't know.
But please don't put entire world in to the bag of nopes.
There ARE places AND BANKS that would carry over such chargeback.

If platform TOS states you are paying for indefinite rent of the product with a clause more or less saying you are owed NOTHING in case of platform going out of business then sorry, but that doesn't fall under the category of fraud simply because laws aren't adjusted enough to software indefinite rents.
In this case platform in question is legally covered.
Platform TOS usually states you cannot take the platform to court - and unfortunatelly 99% consumers seem to fall for that and not make big enough fuss when they should be.

And in case you are buying something that is explicitly stated to be a product ownership and NOT a rent then yes, you DO hv rights if they take it away.
Please don't confuse rights existence with rigths execution.
Just because consumers don't exercise them does not mean they cannot.

I hv read Steam TOS several times by now. I hv also read GOG TOS. And GOG TOS specificly states that you basically OWN the product you buy here, you are NOT renting it.
So if GOG goes out of business and doesn't allow time to download everything then you have all the rights in the world to legally complain.

I pretty evidently said that laws vary depending on country so I don't know what you're fussing about. Yes, they are not unified, but don't talk like they exist nowhere.

And all this what you said still doesn't change the fact that GOG is literally breaking laws by advertising NMS as fully DRM-free and selling something else.
This would totally fall under private definition of fraud for major amount of baking services providers.

I would like you to notice that Australia is a special case in basically ANYTHING consumer-wise.
And you should also notice that Steam TOS has a special clause just for Australia.

Don't speak like NMS being a false advertising cannot be proven since it clearly can be and there is public evidence in plain sight.
Plus there are several countries that have consumer protection bueareus agents that could battle that for them.

id like to remind you that the tos in steams case keeps changing and the tos to renting of games indefintly is not something that have been there since the start of the steam platform.
There used to be a time on steam where you owned the games and were not renting them indefinitely
I joined steam before they changed the tos to renting of games in their wording in their so called contract.

Also youre kinda implying here that as longh as you write under a contract you have no say
or that if you have accepted the new conditions or terms then the contract is more worth than other laws.
its like saying that if you have written under a contract where its allowed to torture you then whoever you have written the contract for can torture you as much as they like.
Protocol 1, Article 1: Protection of property
Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided for by law and by the general principles of international law.
Protocol 1, Article 1 protects your right to enjoy your property peacefully
Property can include things like land, houses, objects you own, shares, licences, leases, patents, money, pensions and certain types of welfare benefits. A public authority cannot take away your property, or place restrictions on its use, without very good reason.
Link here : https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-1-first-protocol-protection-property

This right applies to companies as well as individuals.
This is broken countless times
therfore what you speak of is just pipe dreams and idealism

If NMS is fraud or isnt regarding to gog depends on how banking or justice system in that particulry contry define DRM
as i say yet again
the standards of such defintions are not the same in evry contry so good luck to anyone that tries.
No game company have yet to be judged in a court of law becuase their game client suddenly disapeared.

To the evidence you speak of
some courts can just claim that Gog or NSM devs have left the key to the locked house outside so whoever can just easaly lock themself in or open the dor
(Editing of the save file)
Or that the devs have left the oppertunity for community to just mod i.e edit the files withouth alot of restrictions.
and therefore not drm judged by that court.
But thats kinda hard to know before there have been such a case so it produces some kind of
precedent.

You don't hv to remind me this. I remember these things very well.
From legal perspective what you bought before THE TOS change is technically what you OWN. So should Steam remove your access to it you then have all legal rights to take legal actions against them.

I never said anything like that nor implied that. Don't try to put words that I have not said into my mouth.
I specificly said that most current laws are not well suited for indefinite time software rentals so therefore Steam case is FOR NOW legally covered.

Terms of service and similar things don't override laws. That's a fact.
So if TOS says something that is against a law then that TOS is automatically not legally binding.

You quote me some obscure international law yet you blissfully ignore that in the VERY QUOTE you used it says
By law it doesn't mean just ANY law and certainly DOESN'T relate to INTERNATIONAL one (as the sentence goes on and lists the international one SEPARATELY) - it literally means "subject to national law". You quoted me an international placeholder law that redirects to national law. What you quoted does not mean much BY ITSELF.

Excuse me. What? You are literally saying that just because costumers usually don't use their available protection laws then those laws just don't exist and they are "just ideals".

And I say yet again that I NEVER SAID that the law is uniform across all countries. I pretty clearly said "varies depending on country".

Sorry, but what the F are you talking about? "Law Z only exists in country X so 'good luck for anybody IN THE ENTIRE WORLD as surely they would be unable to use it'"?
Are you for real with this? Regardless of your answer I'm not going to invlove myself in this argument as it is so petty it's beyond my patience.

"It's not a crime if you've not been caught" much?
And SO WHAT that they hv not been dragged to court yet.
You are making it sound like you imply that BECAUSE OF THAT nobody should even try to do so.

It's pretty amusing how you draw that connection but fail to see very obvious:
For most existing jurisdictions it doesn't matter if you leave your spare home key under a carpet, or you leave open window for night - if burglar uses it - it is STILL a break and entry from perspective of most existing jurisdictions.

And removing DRM is seen as piracy by most existing jurisdictions as well. Even removing it BY YOURSELF for ONLY your own personal use (so making a crack and never sharing it with anybody) is a huge grey area.
By your definition Denuvo should not be seen as DRM because it can be defeated (costumer can "fix" his product).

Also, no costumer should be forced to modify game code to make it work as advertised (so for example for it to become DRM free AS ADVERTISED).
It's up to the company to deliver on their advertised promises.

In this case it really DOESN'T matter how country sees DRM itself to be perfectly honest.
No Mans Sky specificly on GOG is ADVERTISED as FULLY DRM-free product. It is clearly not one. Therefore GOG sells you something ELSE than advertised. Therefore it's false advertising. A type of fraud.
End of the story.

Me as well...well said. It's really a tragedy. Those of us who feel like this seem to keep getting driven away, compounding the problem.

Do you know the deffnition of a burgalar and somone thats treespassing?
they are not the same
so before youre acusing and critizing other people they dont know what they are talking about you shoud examine yourself.

It woud only be a burglary if you said speccificly that no one was allowed to enter your house with the key or that no treespassing is allowed
'The devs have not said anything about this.
For all we know the devs coud have left the key outside for anyone to use.
So unless youre a mind reader you still have to prove your point that it was a burglary.
And besides nothing is stolen here in this example
so what the fuck are you on about?

The window comparison are stupid
People dont usally enter trhough the window especcially if the key is in plain sigth
i newer said anything about it beeing under a carpet.

And No
modding is not seen as piracy
youre talking about removing of copy protection and duplicating of a whole product
thats a far cry editing an accessible save file
no diffrent than renaming your folders on your computer.
the denovo example is not a good example
Devs that use it and the makers of denovo have made it clear that they dont want people to hack the software
and they have not left the key to the house behind.

Also, first youre saying you know the laws and fraud protection isnt the same in evry contry
and then youre saying longer down that it doesnt matter.
Make up your mind.

Also youre talking bullshit
even regards to ownership of games regarding the steam platform even if they changed the tos
It doesnt fucking matter if they changed the tos later and changed the wording in the contract later
Im Pointing to this article since you dont get it

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/matthew-wilson/french-judge-reportedly-orders-valve-to-not-prohibit-re-selling-of-digital-games-on-steam/

il write it in plain text
ToS or legal contracts can never, ever, ever be contradictory to the actual laws - the justice system of a country. You were always legally allowed to sell your physical copies. You are legally allowed to resell your licence keys, at least in Europe.
But no one have cared about it and thats the truth
Here's what we understand though. The Tribunal de Grande Instance (TGI) has made it clear that because Valve sells you the game for an unlimited time limit, it cannot be considered a subscription and therefore falls under the normal EU rules set in place for Copyright materials.

Finally, the" subscription "to the" subscription "(of a game) made by the user, which is mentioned in the conclusions of the company VALVE (...) is actually a purchase, the game being made available to said user for an unlimited period. It can not, therefore, be a "subscription" - in the usual sense of the term - but the sale of a copy of a video game, made for a price determined in advance and paid in one go by the user.

Also
The international law is intigrated in the national one at least here In Norway
thers no division betwen them at least here
And the French example
is the same how the law shoud work here in Norway and i bet in alot of other contrys that are either in the Eu or have intigrated the international Human rigths in the national laws.
There are contrys that havent signed this or implemented it though
so perhaps you live in a contry where this is not implemented or not signed and therefore obscure where you live.

And im not talking about of consumers that dont want to use laws or dont want to use the justice system
But its not that simple
we are in most cases talking about people (game companys) with a lot of money here
against consumers with not much money or resources.
Valve can afford to hire many skilled lawyers
most consumers can not.
And in a lot of cases in euope the cases gets dismissed for a varity of reasons.

by the way
its not petty
when i with my writing sends out a signal out to people to lower their expectations intead of listening to one that make grand bold statements about making finalicial claims based on a vague deffiniton on what DRM is and maybe wasting their time.
Thats why im saying good luck to anyone that tries to win over the financial system or luck in getting them on their side.
i really doubt they get annywhere withouth some kind of precedent.

Have you ever heard of leaving quotes blank (since they display direct links to related posts anyway) or dotted (like I did here in these quotes) for the sake of cleaner post look?

That's pretty hilarious baseless accusation. And frankly I don't care about your opinion.

I know definitions of what I quoted, I did my research before saying anything, and I know what I'm talking about.
Also my examples were correct, if you fail to understand them it's not my problem.

You are being highly ignorant, you cannot be bothered to spellcheck your posts, you fail to listen to reasoning, you wrongly interpret my words (you twist their meaning and respond like I would have said something else), you ignore my explanations in your responses, you use excessive and vulgar language (breaking forum conduct) and are being hostile, therefore sorry but this conversation ends here.
I said what I wanted to say. I made my points publicly and clearly.
Now, I cannot be bothered to respond to somebody's random covert vial anymore, so, excuse me, but Sayonara.

At least in Europe there a several court rules that cracking a protected software is legal if it is required to get a legitimate purchase to work.
In those cases it was about professional applications which easily cost 10k €, but I don't see why it should be different for games.
Of course there is the reservation that this has to be the mildest measure. In those cases the manufacturer of the software denied the customer to fix the product, so the customer was taking things into their own hands - and the court said, they could do that.

Sharing a cracked file is of course a problem, because you are sharing (modified) code under copyright. On the other hand sharing a patch that modifies the original file or a document which explains what bytes to alter in a hex editor...

I'm aware. Just not what the exact case details were.
There is some ruling in regards to something (never dug up ALL the details) that more or less says you can break a DRM in legally purchased product for your own personal use iirc.
Tho it still doesn't void my original point from that argument exchange (which I now ended as you can see in post 1027) that possibility of users for modding game code to make something ACTUALLY work as advertised cannot be an excuse for GOG to get away with false advertising of a product (GOG advertises NMS as fully DRM free, which it is clearly not, and possibility for people to remove that DRM portion by mods doesn't change anything in regards to the false advertising).

Is a legal greyzone...

It was kinda funny to witness your slow descent into madness and childish behavior once you ran out of arguments. Not "funny" as in "haha" but more like in "pretty pathetic" though.

The best part for me was your dumb accusation of "not spellchecking" posts...when almost ALL of yours are so riddled with typos and gross errors that I'm pretty sure english isn't your native language (nothing wrong with that ofc, just sayin').
Not to mention the fact that basically ALL your criticism against that guy (that fyi I know nothing about) 100% applies to you too. I'm not going to defend him because I don't agree with a lot of the things he said...but most of your "counterarguments" are so empty and ridiculous that it was painful to read most of your posts.

But the cherry on top needs to be your "this discussion ends now because...I say so" closing post. It only made you look like a sore know-it-all loser that ran out of things to say. Bad optics for sure.
If you're not capable of having a heated discussion then you should learn to step away from it from the start instead of throwing BS for days just to run away at the first sign of "defeat". That's a cheap and cowardly move.

And before going to the ECHR with your legal team to accuse GOG of violating your Human Rights or something...you should probably check the attached pic. GOG does NOT "advertises NMS as fully DRM free". In fact they expressly and unequivocally list NMS' current "limitations" in the game's page to shutdown people like you that may be inclined to say "false advertising" just because some developer decided to change their own game to add some annoying online gimmick. Which btw is NOT DRM since you can still play the game offline but that's another story.

Now...
...you are being highly ignorant...
...you cannot be bothered to spellcheck your posts...
...you fail to listen to reasoning...
...you wrongly interpret other people's words...
...you ignore other people's explanations as you see fit...
...you use vulgar language (breaking forum conduct) and are being hostile to others...
...so I honestly don't feel the need to have any polite exchange whatsoever.
Therefore sorry but this conversation ends here.
I said what I wanted to say. I made my points publicly and clearly.
And since I have nothing else to say on the matter I'll bid you farewell and...till next time.

さよなら


Edit 1: I have to ask: what the heck is a "covert vial"??? Was that a Google Translate thing or what?

Edit 2: Oops, forgot to actually attach the pic.

I will condense my response to minimum because frankly I hv no time for your games.
If you suggest my spellchecking is on par with the person in question then I suggest you go check your eyesight for your own good since there may be a possibility it's failing. Because the levels of the 2 aren't even remotely close to each other and evidence of that is public.

I did not dictate the end of conversation in question towards the other party. I merely left a note that it's ended on my side. Please, learn to read, since that was clear enough.

Please, enlighten me where I allegedly use vulgar language against PEOPLE (NOT products, functionalities, bad coding, etc) on this forum.
Oh and by the way - there is huge difference between being hostile and arguing with somebody (and / or conducting arguments battle).
I never am hostile on this forum. So stop with your baseless allegations.

In regards to NMS:
1.Perhaps it didn't occur to you but GOG is specificly advertised as FULLY DRM-free STORE
2.The whole NMS shenaningans relate to something else than in your screenshot. Go research it yourself before embarrasing yourself publicly with lack of knowledge on subject in question.

To your other points - I will just not respond - you are just wrong and frankly no matter how much you try to put me in bad light you will ultimately fail because you cannot trick EVERYBODY into thinking like you.
You're just yet another random person who tries to aggravate me. But that won't work on me so don't bother. Bye.

It's really funny how most of those human rights have a sentence at the end which undermine the rights.

Back on topic was there a fix to make those online features offline for NMS?

I newer said any laws were perfect
Also
i pointed out an article about a french court ruling
If you didnt own the games and only was renting them it woud be impossible for the french court to claim that you were in fact owning the Games That you bougth on Steam and shoud be allowed to sell them.

About features
I think its this youre looking for
https://nomansskymods.com/mods/no-mans-sky-save-editor/

It depends on the mod
if you are selling the mod withouth permission then its illegal
its also illegal to mod a game to break a copy protection to be able to copy the game and then distribute the copys around, but then we are talking about piracy and not modding as a whole.

you can for instance modify a single player game to give an infinite ammount of lives
You can even share something like an map editor provided there are no Map editors existing in the game
Modding in Multiplayer online games is problematic however because in some cases it gives people that mod unfair advantages over other peoplle that do not mod and some game devs therefore ban this but this is more related to cheats (some users getting unfair advantages over others) in online games rather than usefull features or enchancements.and therefore ruining the gameplay experience of those who doesnt use these mods.
There are also some cases where its illegal for consumers to modify a game to work in other platforms forexample Nintendo games working in steam.

The matter about the making a copy for own personal use as a backup is a complicated one
im quoting parts of the us Law here
There are some differances by contry so i have no idea if this is universal or not
The only backup provisions in U.S. statutory law are those described in U.S.C. Title 17 chapter §117. These are the only provisions in Chapter 1, which delimit the scope of copyright. No other statutory provisions exist in Chapter 1, which delimits the scope of copyright and lists the "limitations on exclusive rights" so granted. Moreover, there is no evaluation period so mentioned.

The provisions of §117 require an owner to make a copy pursuant to the following provisions in subsection (a):

Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.
—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.


Also
i feel alot of people forget about the law on fair use
Some people in this trhead act like it doesnt exist at all.
Yes. i know the fair use law isnt implemented around the Globe
and there are different practises using it.

And the driving away seems to be felt a bit more each day. Besides some unresolved DRM issues with No Man Sky and similar ones mentioned in Lifthrasil's threads, there's the ongoing pushing hard for 'optional' Bloatware (sorry but am done not calling it what it is for me), and Cyberpunk stuff with 'one time' online thingy, and the rest so far and there could be more to come.

I was saying to someone just now that it feels like watching GOG going down a rabbit hole leading nowhere good for quite a few of us, and that at the rate it's going, could soon be out of sight for being too far down.