It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)
Pages:
1
10
20
30
40
50
60
66
67
68
69
70
This is my favourite topic
Posted November 20, 2020
If i can interject for a second, your best bet for trying to make a meaningful statement to GOG is to come together and form some level of cohesive statement, fronted by a respected forum/community member. There's no visible staff on the forums, leaving much of the great insight to simply rot away on a thread they don't pay much attention to. Grab yourselves a discord call/server, come together and inform them of your concerns.

This thread is 50+ pages in with little to no interaction from staff, sometimes the best way is a more direct and official way. Community = Everything for niche storefronts, you guys should use that.
Posted November 20, 2020
low rated
avatar
Lesser Blight Elemental: I take it these games don't come with a DRM-free installer and won't run without a client. Which would be a betrayal of the no-DRM promise. As is Gwent, but we all know that's a dirty little cashgrab that needs to be online anyway. Selling games that aren't multiplayer-only without an offline installer and requiring the use of a client is a disturbing new low for GOG afaik.
whteter a piece of software have or have not an installer have never been part of the definition of DRM free, this is just a matter of convenience.

Nor is having to use a client to download the software. If it is, then you need to define what DRM is.
Post edited November 20, 2020 by amok
Posted November 21, 2020
avatar
Linko64: There's no visible staff on the forums, leaving much of the great insight to simply rot away on a thread they don't pay much attention to.
Make no mistake, they're closely monitoring to make sure they don't have to pretend they care...
Posted November 21, 2020
avatar
Lesser Blight Elemental: I take it these games don't come with a DRM-free installer and won't run without a client. Which would be a betrayal of the no-DRM promise. As is Gwent, but we all know that's a dirty little cashgrab that needs to be online anyway. Selling games that aren't multiplayer-only without an offline installer and requiring the use of a client is a disturbing new low for GOG afaik.
avatar
amok: whteter a piece of software have or have not an installer have never been part of the definition of DRM free, this is just a matter of convenience.

Nor is having to use a client to download the software. If it is, then you need to define what DRM is.
I beg to differ. Some games on Steam run without the client, but you still have to use the client to download them in the first place. If the service ever goes down, permanently or temporarily, you cannot install your games, not even through the "backups" Steam allows you to create which require authentication through the client. It's DRM, pure and simple. GOG on the other hand, if it were to shut down today, as long as you still have your installers, you still have access to your entire library.
Posted November 21, 2020
low rated
avatar
amok: whteter a piece of software have or have not an installer have never been part of the definition of DRM free, this is just a matter of convenience.

Nor is having to use a client to download the software. If it is, then you need to define what DRM is.
avatar
Lesser Blight Elemental: I beg to differ. Some games on Steam run without the client, but you still have to use the client to download them in the first place. If the service ever goes down, permanently or temporarily, you cannot install your games, not even through the "backups" Steam allows you to create which require authentication through the client. It's DRM, pure and simple. GOG on the other hand, if it were to shut down today, as long as you still have your installers, you still have access to your entire library.
No, you are wrong here. Do not use the backup feature. The DRM free games from Steam or Epic, you can archive yourself, and you do not need the client ever again, you can move the games from computer to computer as much as you like
Post edited November 21, 2020 by amok
Posted November 21, 2020
avatar
amok: No, you are wrong here. Do not use the backup feature. The DRM free games from Steam or Epic, you can archive yourself, and you do not need the client ever again, you can move the games from computer to computer as much as you like
edit: Apparently I was not up to date. See the post from Dark_art_ further down.

Original post:
When you never get an installer from these platforms how will some games run on a different PC if you just copy them over? It might work for DOS games and even some modern games, sure, but you can never be certain. What's with registry keys, additional software/dependencies (vc runtime and that stuff) and essential folders (e.g. in AppData or Documents)? That's a lot to consider and goes way beyond "move the game".
Nothing beats an offline installer in that case.
Post edited November 21, 2020 by Wurzelkraft
Posted November 21, 2020
avatar
Lesser Blight Elemental: I beg to differ. Some games on Steam run without the client, but you still have to use the client to download them in the first place. If the service ever goes down, permanently or temporarily, you cannot install your games, not even through the "backups" Steam allows you to create which require authentication through the client. It's DRM, pure and simple. GOG on the other hand, if it were to shut down today, as long as you still have your installers, you still have access to your entire library.
avatar
amok: No, you are wrong here. Do not use the backup feature. The DRM free games from Steam or Epic, you can archive yourself, and you do not need the client ever again, you can move the games from computer to computer as much as you like
The thing is that it's inconsistent the way it works. Some games on Steam even if you move them you can't save for some reason without the client and some you have to do extra stuff to get working,etc
Posted November 21, 2020
avatar
Wurzelkraft: When you never get an installer from these platforms how will some games run on a different PC if you just copy them over? It might work for DOS games and even some modern games, sure, but you can never be certain. What's with registry keys, additional software/dependencies (vc runtime and that stuff) and essential folders (e.g. in AppData or Documents)? That's a lot to consider and goes way beyond "move the game".
Nothing beats an offline installer in that case.
Many games just create save folder, etc if they don't find them. Any VC Redistributable Runtime must be manually instaled, if not instaled previously. You have some All-in-One bundles like this one/
As a DRM free option they work pretty well. just copy the install folder to another computer and ready to go. Check this GOG thread and this link to PcGamingWiki
Posted November 21, 2020
avatar
Dark_art_: Many games just create save folder, etc if they don't find them. Any VC Redistributable Runtime must be manually instaled, if not instaled previously. You have some All-in-One bundles like this one/
As a DRM free option they work pretty well. just copy the install folder to another computer and ready to go. Check this GOG thread and this link to PcGamingWiki
I stand corrected if it really works for (most of) the listed games! Obviously not ideal since you have to use Steam to download them but at least it's possible.
Posted November 21, 2020
avatar
Wurzelkraft: Obviously not ideal since you have to use Steam to download them but at least it's possible.
True but you always must downloading them from some place, even the browser's way require some sort of autentication.
If anyone want to use Steam for only DRM-free games but don't want to install the client, there is some program (can´t remember the name at the moment, will edit my post later) that do that for you. Or as a alternative, just fire up a Virtual Machine, install the games there and copy to your System, works pretty well.


There's a lot of Epic games that are DRM-free too
Posted November 21, 2020
low rated
avatar
amok: No, you are wrong here. Do not use the backup feature. The DRM free games from Steam or Epic, you can archive yourself, and you do not need the client ever again, you can move the games from computer to computer as much as you like
avatar
Wurzelkraft: edit: Apparently I was not up to date. See the post from Dark_art_ further down.

Original post:
When you never get an installer from these platforms how will some games run on a different PC if you just copy them over? It might work for DOS games and even some modern games, sure, but you can never be certain. What's with registry keys, additional software/dependencies (vc runtime and that stuff) and essential folders (e.g. in AppData or Documents)? That's a lot to consider and goes way beyond "move the game".
Nothing beats an offline installer in that case.
aye, no argument that having an installer is easer / more convenient. but as said before - no definition of DRM states "it has to be easy / convenient"

IN the case of for eample the Steam games, in the game folder you can find all the dependencies needed, as well as a document with the possible reg keys that need added if it needs. BUt - most of the game do not need it at all, epsecially the newer ones. Just zip the game folder an move them
Posted November 21, 2020
I guess I start packing - full backup and all.
Just in case I catch the stench of decay.
Posted November 22, 2020
high rated
avatar
Lifthrasil: [snip]
That should be a big thing and should lead to a huge outcry - but there is hardly anything. Problably most of the DRM-free idealists already left long ago and people like Breja and I just are part of a small remnant of DRM-free enthusiasts. Times change. GOG, sadly, did so for the worse.
Add me to the DRM-free enthusiasts clan, or club, and though have discussed this outside of this forum, am now stating it here: took a major step back -purchases included- due to things piling up too much and red blinkers not switching off.

Though a baby compared to those here for many years, bought many games here for only 2 reasons : DRM-free games and offline installers. Otherwise would have gone to and stayed on Steam if none of those mattered to me, and a large majority of games I bought here I have retail (all of which still perfectly playable and not tied to online crap, including clients), the rest are purely digital and those too I want DRM-free and with offline installers. In that respect I had Gog in high regards for providing those, but this has changed and what has been discussed here is part of why.

Am pretty much unforgiving when it comes to certain things and adhere to the 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me' philosophy. I wouldn't say that I've been fooled with Gog because I have purchased what I wanted and was supposed to get, but aforementioned pilling up and blinkers made me very weary and with just cause. So am keeping an eye on developments until such time I can make final and informed decision either way, but what I am absolutely sure of is that I will not be sailing a boat taking me to the waters of DRM and forced use of a no longer 'optional' client. Again, what would be the point then of buying games here then? None as far as I'm concerned.

Would turning my back on Gog (like I did other platforms especially DRM infested ones) mean I'd loose out on some titles? Perhaps but save for a couple of recent games that turned out being mistake purchases as I came to dislike them and will never finish playing those, all of my purchases since day one of buying games have been of ones I can happily go back to play without ever being bored, until I've reached my expiring date however soon or later it may be.

But because life has a way to give you nice surprises along with the nasty ones, I recently discovered that there are devs out there who can bring good games out -that I sure would like to get- DRM free and with the option of getting them in physical form too along with their digital form to boot. Those I happily back them up in more ways than one for I think they kind of need me more in that respect than Gog ever has and ever will.

Now it's wait and see.
Posted November 30, 2020
avatar
tfishell: I doubt it's not worth arguing tbh. I will say I never viewed "FCK DRM" as much more than marketing.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: I'm sorry, your wording is slightly confusing.
So then my point is incorrect or what?

Also, even if it's "just" marketing - it's pretty clear that it's intended behaviour leveraged to make people THINK that this is indeed how GOG *wants* to be. Apparently it was all false advertising (let's just start calling it by name shall we?).

avatar
RavenCrowwise: Most of the Games on Epic Store are DRM free anyway. Full list here > https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Epic_Games_Store. DRM is not in question.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: Please...
By that definition there is A WHOLE LOT of DRM free games ON STEAM.
If the game is DRM free AFTER INSTALLING through a LAUNCHER then that is NOT actually a TRUE DRM free.

avatar
RavenCrowwise: I actually think of it as a positive thing. GOG Galaxy consolidates all launchers into one so GOG already has consent to use EPic's API's so why not a full partnership?
avatar
B1tF1ghter: I'm not going to even bother to explain if YOU cannot be bothered to read this entire thread and NOTICE already made solid points about the matter in question.
I don't like repeating myself and I think others in this thread would eventually develop vial when repeatedly approached by people who cannot be bothered to go check this thread for already existing points that were made.
Please, just go read the thread.

avatar
Lifthrasil: Raise an outcry and force GOG to reconsider their position.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: Count me in :)

avatar
Lifthrasil: Stop buying here until they return to their 'principles'. That worked in the past.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: After I discovered this thread I froze all my planned and unplanned purchases on GOG indefinitely.
Honestly, after I discovered this whole shebang I am in the process of pulling out of this platform (well I have to make a RAW backup first and that's going to take "SOME" time considering my internet is uber crap).

avatar
Lifthrasil: By now we have reached a state where Support, when told about DRM in single player games, just sends a 'no comment' statement and closes the ticket as 'solved'. That is cynical and shows, that DRM is not considered a problem by GOG. They are, quite officially, not willing to do anything about DRM in the games they sell.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: Perhaps you haven't perosonally noticed, or perhaps you did, I don't know, but I will say it for the sake of others that didn't:
In such case by most countries' laws you can warrant a refund, and if not then a chargeback, based on fraud protection laws (products here are EXPLICITLY ADVERTISED as DRM FREE, which means if for example NMS has DRM it's a CLEAR CASE of FALSE ADVERTISING, therefore a fraud).
Depends what the courts define as DRM
i dont think the justice system define the case of NMS as DRM
and since its not a clear case and have not been taken up in court
i doubt credit card companys or whatever will care.
Good luck to anyone that tries though.
Posted November 30, 2020
avatar
B1tF1ghter: ...
avatar
Lodium: Depends what the courts define as DRM
i dont think the justice system define the case of NMS as DRM
and since its not a clear case and have not been taken up in court
i doubt credit card companys or whatever will care.
Good luck to anyone that tries though.
Actually, it DOESN'T hv to have court case record for it to be effective. This isn't some grey area where laws aren't set in stone.
If a product is ADVERTISED as fully DRM-free then you ought to get exactly that.
NMS is clearly advertised as FULLY DRM-free product. But that's clearly false since part of the content isn't DRM-free which has been proven.
That means NMS is falesely advertised product.
It's that simple.

Now, on the subject of costumer protection laws, it highly depends on the country.
But to be honest most jurisdictions worldwide are sane enough to include SOME form of fraud protection and that includes false advertising usually too.

When someone advertises one thing (NMS FULLY DRM-free) and sells you another (NMS only partially DRM-free) it's a fraud by most countries' law definitions.
At that point you hv all usual fraud protection rights, such as extended time period right for bank handled chargeback. Many banks even hv their own policies more lucrative than country they operate in and so many of them would allow you to do this more easily than just based on country laws alone.
Pages:
1
10
20
30
40
50
60
66
67
68
69
70
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)