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General discussionNew Publisher: Disney Interactive / Lucasfilm(924 posts)(924 posts)
(924 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 28, 2014
Confirmed.

The day has finally come and the holy grail of classic gaming has arrived on GOG.com. Welcome, Lucasfilm games! You are among friends, here! We're proud to announce our team-up with ©Disney Interactive that allows for the DRM-free release of 20+ classic titles from the cult-classic developer. We know you waited long for this moment, so we want to reunite you with those golden oldies with as little delay as possible. Today, to start with a bang, we are releasing a selection of 6 acclaimed titles from Lucasfilm's most famous gaming franchises, so that the Lucasfilm/Disney catalog on GOG.com is made impressive from day one. Here are the great titles you can get right away:

<i>Star Wars</i>&trade;: X-Wing Special Edition - digital distribution debut, on GOG.com!
<i>Star Wars</i>&trade;: TIE Fighter Special Edition - digital distribution debut, on GOG.com!
Sam &amp; Max Hit the Road (Windows + Mac + Linux!) - digital distribution debut, on GOG.com!
The Secret of Monkey Island&trade;: Special Edition
Indiana Jones&reg; and the Fate of Atlantis&trade; (Windows + Mac + Linux!)
<i>Star Wars</i>&reg;: Knights of the Old Republic

Note that numerous Lucas titles, including 3 from the launch lineup (Star Wars®: X-Wing Special Edition, Star Wars®: TIE Fighter Special Edition, Sam & Max Hit the Road), are available digitally for the first time ever, ready to play with no fuss on modern operating systems. With more fantastic titles headed for our Lucasfilm/Disney catalog, you can expect to see Lucasfilm games popping up frequently on GOG.com in the coming months.

(C) & ™ Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved. Used under authorization. STAR WARS, INDIANA JONES, SAM & MAX, MONKEY ISLAND and all characters, names, and related properties are trademarks of & (C) Lucasfilm Ltd. and/or its affiliates.
Posted October 29, 2014
Just adding my thanks! Insta-bought X Wing and Tie Fighter. Some of the first games I ever played!!!! Thanks GOG!


...and in my greed, I just want to say I hope to see the Rebel Assault games come through....
Posted October 29, 2014
Can't Wait for more games from That and Disney Interactive!
Posted October 29, 2014
I'm so surprised and happy to see LucasArts games on GOG!!!!
These were the first batch of gaming experience on western PC games (I live in Japan) and was so amazing at that time.
Now I'm dying MORE for The Curse of Monkey Island and Grim Fandango...
Posted October 29, 2014
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opticq: I still can't decide what to buy...
They're all good titles, in my never to be humble opinion ;-)
Posted October 29, 2014
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TheJadedOne: [...]

I have not read the entire TOS as I stopped as soon as I saw the part I quoted in my original post. The other party in a contract being able to just change the terms of the agreement with your only choice being "take it or leave it" (or become a "pirate after the fact" by continuing to use the game while no longer having a license to the game) is really not acceptable. You are, legally speaking, back to renting your games, which is the same thing that made me stop buying games with DRM a long time ago.
I don't know if that's acceptable/ enforceable under US law, but it's not under EU, so the part of their ToS I mentioned in my earlier post about local law makes this specific provision unenforceable, at least for EU citizens.

If such clauses are fine under US law, then perhaps the problem isn't just Disney, but the law?

Either way, I'm all for raising awareness, and I'd add my voice to any attempts to bring changes, just consider that being so aggressive and condescending does not make you any allies here, so if you're serious about trying to change things, you need a different strategy, as your current one is not working.

And with due respect, for someone arguing with such passion, you should have read the whole thing at least once.

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PaladinWay: While you weren't addressing this to me, I have been complaining about the terms of service and won't buy any games with that attached either, so I thought I'd answer too.

[...].
First off, thanks for addressing the matter in a calm way.

I do understand your objections and frustration about the provisions you mention - see what I'm asking TheJadedOne about them.
The document matters of course, but only to the extend it's enforceable under local law which Disney recognises themselves.

I'm not one to only speak up when personally affected, so I'm in for raising awareness and trying to bring some changes. In my mind though, that requires a more organised strategy than just repeatedly posting the same things in this thread. And that includes contacting Disney and GOG and stating what the issues is in a calm and reasonable way, and encouraging others to do the same.

I will add my voice to yours, just keep in mind that if those provisions are fine under your local law, then there's little to nth we or GOG can do to press Disney to make amendments as no company would ever willingly waive any of their rights.


EDIT: To both of you - are you aware that GOG has a similar term in their ToU?
Changes to the Terms of UseGOG at its sole discretion, reserves the right at any time, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these Terms of Use. It is the User's responsibility for reviewing and becoming familiar with any such modifications. Use of the Service by User following such modification constitutes User's acceptance of the terms and conditions of this Agreement as modified. Additional terms and conditions may apply to specific portions or features of the Service.
Why is this less disturbing to you?
Post edited October 29, 2014 by HypersomniacLive
Posted October 29, 2014
Somehow this release doesn't feel as successful as it could now without the website going down...
Post edited October 29, 2014 by Piranjade
Posted October 29, 2014
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opticq: I still can't decide what to buy...
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foxworks: They're all good titles, in my never to be humble opinion ;-)
I know they are! But I think I shall wait till I can finish my backlog.
Posted October 29, 2014
Best day ever! Insta-bought KotOR and Monkey Island, can't wait to see what's released next!
Posted October 29, 2014
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TheJadedOne: [...]

I have not read the entire TOS as I stopped as soon as I saw the part I quoted in my original post. The other party in a contract being able to just change the terms of the agreement with your only choice being "take it or leave it" (or become a "pirate after the fact" by continuing to use the game while no longer having a license to the game) is really not acceptable. You are, legally speaking, back to renting your games, which is the same thing that made me stop buying games with DRM a long time ago.
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HypersomniacLive: I don't know if that's acceptable/ enforceable under US law, but it's not under EU, so the part of their ToS I mentioned in my earlier post about local law makes this specific provision unenforceable, at least for EU citizens.

If such clauses are fine under US law, then perhaps the problem isn't just Disney, but the law?
That's exactly what i tried to explain. No contract can overrun local laws, which the contract itself aknowledges. In Italy (like in most european countries) such a contract isn't valid at all.
Post edited October 29, 2014 by Shendue
Posted October 29, 2014
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TheJadedOne: 1. To warn others. (And towards this end many of the follow ups are needed to correct flatly false information others are posting.)

2. Hoping that maybe a few people would show the least bit of moral fibre and stand against a EULA which is clearly not designed to be a fair agreement. (And not just fake moral fibre when something's hitting their pocket book, aka regional pricing.)

And there you go, adding to the misinformation. I've already addressed this with respect to the EA EULA. The difference is that those other EULAs (to my knowledge) are actual bilateral contracts. They do not reserve the right to make unilateral changes to their contracts, after a sale has already completed, that you then must either comply with or lose the license to the software you purchased. Disney does reserve such power.

As mentioned above, reserving the right to simply change the contract after the fact is not standard.

And it may be that most people don't care about the contracts they enter into, but I find that rather disturbing, as it is hugely irresponsible and over time leads nowhere good. Contracts should mean something - they are the basis upon which a non-coersive/truly-coooperative society is built. The ignorance and apathy exhibited towards them is ignorance and apathy towards society (though most are not enlightened enough to see this).

I basically acknowledge the difficulty in detecting/enforcing the EULA in my first post. However, there is still a moral component as even if you know you can practically get away with violating the terms of a contract, you should not agree to terms if you do not plan to stick to them. (I.e., the general attitude towards contracts and their importance in society again, and the corrupting effect of just casually ignoring contracts.)

This isn't a release thread. This thread is about a new publisher, and my posts are about the terms of use that publisher is offering.

How about you stop supporting immorality and corrupting influences? (I would thank you if I thought you actually would do so.)
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CharlesGrey: If you truly want to inform other GOG customers about this, just go ahead and create a dedicated thread for it already. This isn't really the place for it, and your posts will just keep getting buried by all the people who want to express their excitement about these game releases ( which is mostly what this thread is for ).

Also, it would help if you could stop claiming that everyone else is stupid and uneducated, just because they don't agree with you, or don't care for this whole EULA issue. Because that usually has the effect that people completely disregard whatever you have to say, whether or not it is relevant.

Or you know, just keep going at it. Whatever works for you.
Actually, he helped me, and I wish you would stop your posts. The information you distribute isn't accurate. The TOS/EULA makes it pretty clear you don't own the game. They did away with DRM to replace it with LRM (Legal Rights Management).
Posted October 29, 2014
Can we just take the legal discussion somewhere else? Seriously?

And the EULA clearly says that they give you a non commercial, personal license.

Also just think, how exactly would they change the EULA to make the GOG version illegal? Because in court, it can be brought up that Disney provided a customer license, and basic consumer law states that once you pay for a legal copy, you own it.

I mean seriously, will Disney write one day that, "GOG purchases are illegal?" Seriously? It won't work.
Posted October 29, 2014
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gftrexler: Actually, he helped me, and I wish you would stop your posts. The information you distribute isn't accurate. The TOS/EULA makes it pretty clear you don't own the game. They did away with DRM to replace it with LRM (Legal Rights Management).
Actually, even with DRM-free games, you don't actually own them - digital content (which includes games) is always only licensed to you. Read any of the EULAs that come with GOG's games and you'll see that you are granted a license.
Posted October 29, 2014
Wow... just wow....

I was at work when I first heard of this 10 hours ago. Made the day pass so slooowwwwlllyyyy.... And as soon as I got home and saw that I could get KOTOR and Fate of Atlantis I insta-bought! Would buy more but finite funds and all that.

GOG, Disney: thank you both for bringing these games here. Like so many others I want to offer well-deserved praise. I hope you both have a large windfall, for you have brought happiness to many a GOG'er.

Personally, hope to see the rest of the Monkey Island series, Empires At War and its expansion, Galactic Battlegrounds and its expansion, Dark Forces, and as many of the others as you can bring! Rest assured there are many many buyers already eager to part with their greens for these games too!

This event has to be up there in GOG history with the release of System Shock 2 and the experience of the Insomnia Sale (especially the Jack Keene portions). A very special day indeed! :-D
Posted October 29, 2014
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Shendue: The italian law is very protective of the customer in such transactions. We have had cases of our Court of Cassation, which is the highest court in Italy, declaring modifications of hardware and software like, for instance, removing software limitations by modifying game consoles to be PERFECTLY LEGAL because the buyer is the legal owner of an object, after buying it, and can dispose of it any way he wants.
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PaladinWay: I wish US law was that forward thinking and wish you well for your better local laws. That being the case, I could see less concern on your part. However, I believe the severability clause standard in licenses is likely considered valid in Italy, which would mean that every provision which is potentially problematic would need to be explicitly protected for you. It sounds like you have a much better chance of it than we do, and I have no idea Italian legal precedent, but I would consider that.

As to likelihood of enforcement, that depends. My reading of that agreement is that you're agreeing to these terms with regards to Disney and all their child companies in a way which is binding for other services they provide as well and renewing the agreement for older child company products. For example, ESPN was one of their companies, so it would be possible that if a class-action lawsuit were brought against a cable/satellite provider which involved ESPN then agreeing to this EULA might constitute sufficient cause to remove the people who agreed from the lawsuit. Not sure for Italy, but in the US class action lawsuits tend to be brought as punitive actions against companies for cheating their customers and don't really end up gaining the customers anything but warm & fuzzies and stopping the activity (for example, it's been used to stop garbage extra $1 fees for 10 million service subscribers which would be too low of an amount to sue for separately).

If you're sufficiently assured of your rights, then I congratulate you. However some of us aren't. I haven't read much of what TheJadedOne has written, and perhaps he's being a bit too confrontational, but I do agree with at least some of his base point and think it's a valid concern to attempt to at least bring up even for those who aren't impacted as an aspect of fairness on GOG's part. I don't think GOG should outright refuse to list games with EULAs, but I would hope that there's sufficient/continued pressure from us, the customers, which they can use to show the studios that restrictive EULAs are restricting their profits as well, and they should consider removing them.
I have no objections to that (avatar pun unintended but definetely amused at how it came out).
I was just pointing at the fact that TheJadedOne misunderstood, imho, most of the replies to his messages. I can sympathize with someone trying to inform other people about a company who is using shady means to have absolute legal power over their customers, but his tones were probably way over the top and too catastrophic to do any good, hence the replies. He sounded like a paranoid student in law, rather than someone willing to inform other customers about a possible limitation of their rights.
I think that a clever way to address the issue would be to ask GOG, or Disney, or both, directly if there is a chance they will revoke the DRM-Free policy on those games once they are sold.
My two cents is that, in fact, Disney is just using the same basic standard contract they use for all games they sell, a contract that is pretty much molded on online services and DRM-protected games, because they never even thought about selling DRM-Free games before. Since it's a completely novel model of distribution for them, it's very likely they didn't even thought of estabilishing a different EULA agreement for those games. Also, it's entirely possible that they may see this as a sort of experiment, so they logically would want to have a fail-safe clause that would allow them to regain control of the situation if something goes wrong, for example the unlikely scenario that all of their games start being pirated in the billion of numbers and nobody pays for them (i know it sounds ridiculous, but we are talking about a HUGE, OLD, POWERFUL. VERY CONSERVATIVE mega-corporation that never EVER used this distribution phylosophy in the past, so they probably have no clue about how it really translate into practice).
Post edited October 29, 2014 by Shendue
Posted October 29, 2014
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HypersomniacLive: I don't know if that's acceptable/ enforceable under US law, but it's not under EU, so the part of their ToS I mentioned in my earlier post about local law makes this specific provision unenforceable, at least for EU citizens.

If such clauses are fine under US law, then perhaps the problem isn't just Disney, but the law?
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Shendue: That's exactly what i tried to explain. No contract can overrun local laws, which the contract itself aknowledges. In Italy (like in most european countries) such a contract isn't valid at all.
If I may ask, then, what happens in the case of Steam - and presumably Disney - wherein upon login you're confronted with a new EULA and if you choose to not accept the new terms then you can't access your account or play the previously-purchased games that require such access?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionNew Publisher: Disney Interactive / Lucasfilm(924 posts)(924 posts)
(924 posts)