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AdvThruGames: As much as I don't like them doing that, try looking at it from this point of view: they have the rights to the games and IP, apparently because Trent Oster (BioWare co-founder) and Cameron Tofer (BioWare programmer) founded Beamdog. They have seemingly decided that they don't want the originals competing with these remasters on any of the digital storefronts, and have therefore decided to bundle them. It is true that anyone that wanted to buy digital versions of the originals by themselves or in their own anthologies/bundles has had +/- 10 years to do so. I wish that they would reinstate the standalone and anthology versions of the originals on the digital storefronts, but it may not be entirely up to them anyway, and therefore, for that reason and the reasons I stated above, I cannot really fault Beamdog. Have they done everything perfectly? No. They need to be transparent and honest in future (as far as possible), and be attentive to technical support requests. It seems like they are trying to do that with NWN:EE at least, so this one last time, they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Please, spare me that bullshit. They took the originals down, so people who have not played their games, could not compare the enhanced with the originals. Take what 2K did with Bioshock for example. They added the original with the new one as well, so instead of getting one game, you get two. There are a lot more examples but I will stop here.

Also, do you think that I care that Oster was the co-founder of Bioware? I would have if he stayed the same, but he is not the same person he was back then, so no, I do not care one bit about him or his shady company.

Transparent and honest? Huh, thanks for the chuckle.
No, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt, not from me, anyway. I do not care what other people think about.
Post edited December 02, 2017 by Elisebathe
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AdvThruGames: You forget that Beamdog is made up of people that developed the original. They have every legal and moral right to make this remaster. Yes, it would be nice if they could keep it compatible enough for the original version's mods to work, but failing to do so doesn't automatically make this remaster pointless.
I disagree with almost everything you said here. As I pointed out earlier, I dispute your first claim. While they do have the legal right, moral rights are a matter of opinion, and I don't believe they did anything to earn that right. It is impossible for them to make substantial changes without introducing incompatibility, and, in fact, they have already done so with what few changes they have made.

This entire remake is pointless. If Beamdog had the skills you claim, and the desire to actually serve the players, rather than their own wallets, they would make a new game. Even this travesty of an update would be more acceptable if they included an actual content expansion of the scale of SoU or HotU (but, given SoD was a "new game", I'm not sure they're capable, and I'm sure they would sell it as a separate product). Obsidian made PIllars of Eternity as an homage to the IE games, rather than trying to claim ownership of BG and make unnecessary lore and engine changes. inXile made TIdes of Numenera rather than trying to claim ownership of Planescape: Torment and making unnecessary lore and engine changes. Both of those companies had more people involved with the original products than Beamdog appears to, and they did the right thing. Were their new games good? Who cares? More games is better than hanging on to the old stuff forever, especially if hanging on means making gratuitous incompatible changes.

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mystral: AFAIK, there are no former Bioware or Black Isle employees in Beamdog, or at least none that had an important role in making the IE games or NWN.
To be fair, from the credits and intro of NWN's manual:

Trent T. Oster
Producer—Neverwinter Nights
BioWare Corp.

It's always hard to tell how much executives actually contributed to the product, though, and they're always listed in the credits. Note that Cameron Tofer is nowhere in the credits.

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AdvThruGames: Have they done everything perfectly? No. They need to be transparent and honest in future (as far as possible), and be attentive to technical support requests. It seems like they are trying to do that with NWN:EE at least, so this one last time, they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Ah, another "they've learned their lessons" believer. They have learned how not to anger some of the people over their decisions. No more SJW writing? Better QA? Neither of these affects me in the least. No, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. When Stig79 called them for what they were going to do, people like you jumped in and said "give them a chance!" Then they made their announcements and FAQs, and showed that they were still pulling the same old crap. Apparently that still isn't enough to convince you that they don't deserve a chance.
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AdvThruGames: As much as I don't like them doing that, try looking at it from this point of view: they have the rights to the games and IP, apparently because Trent Oster (BioWare co-founder) and Cameron Tofer (BioWare programmer) founded Beamdog. They have seemingly decided that they don't want the originals competing with these remasters on any of the digital storefronts, and have therefore decided to bundle them. It is true that anyone that wanted to buy digital versions of the originals by themselves or in their own anthologies/bundles has had +/- 10 years to do so. I wish that they would reinstate the standalone and anthology versions of the originals on the digital storefronts, but it may not be entirely up to them anyway, and therefore, for that reason and the reasons I stated above, I cannot really fault Beamdog. Have they done everything perfectly? No. They need to be transparent and honest in future (as far as possible), and be attentive to technical support requests. It seems like they are trying to do that with NWN:EE at least, so this one last time, they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
They don't actually have the rights to anything, you know. Wizards of the Coast has rights to the D&D setting and IP, and also every single D&D-based game. Even if that weren't true, it would still be the publisher, and not some members of the original developers, who owned the rights to the games.

Also, after watching the NWN credits, I'll give you Trent Oster, but Cameron Tofer isn't listed anywhere in those, so either he joined afterwards or he left beforehand. Having 1 guy on your team who was important in a game's development doesn't give you any rights to said game imo, otherwise everyone could make remakes of anything.
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Elisebathe: Please, spare me that bullshit. They took the originals down, so people who have not played their games, could not compare the enhanced with the originals. Take what 2K did with Bioshock for example. They added the original with the new one as well, so instead of getting one game, you get two.
Uhm, I might be mistaken here, but I believe that the original games are in fact included with Beamdog's Enhanced Editions.
Post edited December 02, 2017 by Breja
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Frozen: Nobody asked for this.
I dunno, NVN runs like absolute shit on my computer despite me having decent specs, also crashes and needs to be run in compatibility mode for XP just to launch. In addition, the NWN Diamond Edition doesn't include some of the official modules like Wyvern Crown of Cormyr.
Post edited March 28, 2018 by Crosmando
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Breja: Uhm, I might be mistaken here, but I believe that the original games are in fact included with Beamdog's Enhanced Editions.
Just checked on GOG, and yes, apparently they are, but only here. I wonder why they did not do the same thing on Steam as well. That still means that they are going to ignore platinum and diamond edition...like I said, Beamdog is and always will be to me, a company that I will never buy games from it. They can change that by making new games, and not enhanced versions.
Post edited December 02, 2017 by Elisebathe
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darktjm: Note that Cameron Tofer is nowhere in the credits.
Cameron Tofer was hired by Bioware as a 19 year old and on Baldur's Gate he did some 'additional programming', whatever that means.

Trivia: Marcia Tofer was the artist's model for Skie, Shar-Teel and Viconia (BG1) apparently.
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darktjm: Note that Cameron Tofer is nowhere in the credits.
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Hickory: Cameron Tofer was hired by Bioware as a 19 year old and on Baldur's Gate he did some 'additional programming', whatever that means.
Er, sorry, I now realize the text I quoted said IE games or NWN, and I only meant NWN. I'd prefer not to discuss the BG takeover further (at least not in detail); it's already been talked to death. I'm sure if/when Beamdog makes IWD2EE the whole wound will flare up again.

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Hickory: Trivia: Marcia Tofer was the artist's model for Skie, Shar-Teel and Viconia (BG1) apparently.
Given how similar all the BG females look to me, I'm surprised you didn't say "all the BG1 females".
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AdvThruGames: As much as I don't like them doing that, try looking at it from this point of view: they have the rights to the games and IP, apparently because Trent Oster (BioWare co-founder) and Cameron Tofer (BioWare programmer) founded Beamdog. They have seemingly decided that they don't want the originals competing with these remasters on any of the digital storefronts, and have therefore decided to bundle them. It is true that anyone that wanted to buy digital versions of the originals by themselves or in their own anthologies/bundles has had +/- 10 years to do so. I wish that they would reinstate the standalone and anthology versions of the originals on the digital storefronts, but it may not be entirely up to them anyway, and therefore, for that reason and the reasons I stated above, I cannot really fault Beamdog. Have they done everything perfectly? No. They need to be transparent and honest in future (as far as possible), and be attentive to technical support requests. It seems like they are trying to do that with NWN:EE at least, so this one last time, they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
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mystral: They don't actually have the rights to anything, you know. Wizards of the Coast has rights to the D&D setting and IP, and also every single D&D-based game. Even if that weren't true, it would still be the publisher, and not some members of the original developers, who owned the rights to the games.

Also, after watching the NWN credits, I'll give you Trent Oster, but Cameron Tofer isn't listed anywhere in those, so either he joined afterwards or he left beforehand. Having 1 guy on your team who was important in a game's development doesn't give you any rights to said game imo, otherwise everyone could make remakes of anything.
Okay, fair enough... Then Wizards of the Coast has entrusted them with the remastering of the games. Seems like anyone who takes issue with the fact that the originals are being remastered, or with the quality of the remasters, should perhaps escalate their complaints to them if Beamdog's words aren't good enough?
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AdvThruGames: You forget that Beamdog is made up of people that developed the original. They have every legal and moral right to make this remaster. Yes, it would be nice if they could keep it compatible enough for the original version's mods to work, but failing to do so doesn't automatically make this remaster pointless.
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darktjm: I disagree with almost everything you said here. As I pointed out earlier, I dispute your first claim. While they do have the legal right, moral rights are a matter of opinion, and I don't believe they did anything to earn that right. It is impossible for them to make substantial changes without introducing incompatibility, and, in fact, they have already done so with what few changes they have made.

This entire remake is pointless. If Beamdog had the skills you claim, and the desire to actually serve the players, rather than their own wallets, they would make a new game. Even this travesty of an update would be more acceptable if they included an actual content expansion of the scale of SoU or HotU (but, given SoD was a "new game", I'm not sure they're capable, and I'm sure they would sell it as a separate product). Obsidian made PIllars of Eternity as an homage to the IE games, rather than trying to claim ownership of BG and make unnecessary lore and engine changes. inXile made TIdes of Numenera rather than trying to claim ownership of Planescape: Torment and making unnecessary lore and engine changes. Both of those companies had more people involved with the original products than Beamdog appears to, and they did the right thing. Were their new games good? Who cares? More games is better than hanging on to the old stuff forever, especially if hanging on means making gratuitous incompatible changes.

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mystral: AFAIK, there are no former Bioware or Black Isle employees in Beamdog, or at least none that had an important role in making the IE games or NWN.
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darktjm: To be fair, from the credits and intro of NWN's manual:

Trent T. Oster
Producer—Neverwinter Nights
BioWare Corp.

It's always hard to tell how much executives actually contributed to the product, though, and they're always listed in the credits. Note that Cameron Tofer is nowhere in the credits.

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AdvThruGames: Have they done everything perfectly? No. They need to be transparent and honest in future (as far as possible), and be attentive to technical support requests. It seems like they are trying to do that with NWN:EE at least, so this one last time, they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
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darktjm: Ah, another "they've learned their lessons" believer. They have learned how not to anger some of the people over their decisions. No more SJW writing? Better QA? Neither of these affects me in the least. No, they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. When Stig79 called them for what they were going to do, people like you jumped in and said "give them a chance!" Then they made their announcements and FAQs, and showed that they were still pulling the same old crap. Apparently that still isn't enough to convince you that they don't deserve a chance.
Some of the players desire to be served an enhanced edition. You might feel differently, but there ARE people, myself included, who want a version that runs on modern operating systems with minimum fuss and hassle, has basic features like widescreen support, and has at least major bugs from the original fixed. Granted, Beamdog isn't guaranteed to deliver on that, but I guess it's up to each individual to decide whether they trust Beamdog enough to buy their remaster. It is unfortunate that they will most likely remove the option of buying the original version digitally, like they did in the past, but there's little we can do other than speak with our wallets. I for one do not mind supporting them, as no company is perfect, and they have apologised for some of the unnecessary and inflammatory words uttered by staff at the company. As for the "SJW writing", I assume you are referring to Siege of Dragonspear, but I am not sure where I fall on that as I have not played that game. I will say that including trans and LGBT characters is not automatically a bad thing, nor does it need to screamed against from the rooftops. Perhaps they didn't write as well as they could have, but I can only judge that by seeing said writing for myself.
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AdvThruGames: Some of the players desire to be served an enhanced edition. You might feel differently, but there ARE people, myself included, who want a version that runs on modern operating systems with minimum fuss and hassle, has basic features like widescreen support, and has at least major bugs from the original fixed. Granted, Beamdog isn't guaranteed to deliver on that, but I guess it's up to each individual to decide whether they trust Beamdog enough to buy their remaster. It is unfortunate that they will most likely remove the option of buying the original version digitally, like they did in the past, but there's little we can do other than speak with our wallets. I for one do not mind supporting them, as no company is perfect, and they have apologised for some of the unnecessary and inflammatory words uttered by staff at the company.
So you're using your right to freedom of choice as the justification to take away that of those who'd make a different choice?
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AdvThruGames: Some of the players desire to be served an enhanced edition. You might feel differently, but there ARE people, myself included, who want a version that runs on modern operating systems with minimum fuss and hassle, has basic features like widescreen support, and has at least major bugs from the original fixed. Granted, Beamdog isn't guaranteed to deliver on that, but I guess it's up to each individual to decide whether they trust Beamdog enough to buy their remaster. It is unfortunate that they will most likely remove the option of buying the original version digitally, like they did in the past, but there's little we can do other than speak with our wallets. I for one do not mind supporting them, as no company is perfect, and they have apologised for some of the unnecessary and inflammatory words uttered by staff at the company.
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Cavalary: So you're using your right to freedom of choice as the justification to take away that of those who'd make a different choice?
I am NOT trying to take it away. I want Beamdog to keep the original digital versions on the store just as much as anyone else. I have said so on the Beamdog forums and here.
Will it include the enhancement of all the Expansion packs? Because if it doesn't, then boooo, you can keep it!
Every time Beamdog announces one of their Enhanced Edition games, I just reinstall the original.
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HijacK: Will it include the enhancement of all the Expansion packs? Because if it doesn't, then boooo, you can keep it!
I wouldn't be suprised if they "enhanced" them all separately for the numnuts who not only hand over wedges of cash, but also pop onto forums to defend them.