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General discussionMy computer need help :/(143 posts)(143 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 05, 2017
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GR00T: The blues are decent drives, but be aware it's* a 5400 RPM so will be somewhat slower on read/writes.
*edit* Just wanted to clarify that I mean this particular drive is a 5400 RPM. WD does make 7200RPM blues as well.
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ariaspi: As GR00T said, buy a 7200 RPM drive. And Western Digital is my prefered choice.
Hum... My dying disk has this ref : western digital wdc wd20EADS-22R6B0 (it's maybe this one but I'm not sure exactly). So there are good chances it was already at 5400 RPM so... of course faster hdd would be great but the only other WD of 2To I found on the site was [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/western-digital-red-pro-desktop-2-to-26440894#moid:MO-4A0ABM65126732]this one[/url] but it's a "red" model, and double the price, which is.. too "luxuous" for my wallet :S I can't find the blue version with 7200RPM on the site. I found a [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/seagate-disque-dur-interne-barracuda-3-5-2000-go-bulk-7200rpm-64mb-sata-6-0gb-s-st2000dm006-26565928#moid:MO-A036EM64945100]Seagate 2To for 75€[/url]. But I don't know this brand at all (and their SAV), and I mainly want a drive of good quality which will last :) (and a good SAV if there is an issue) I'm not playing "huge" games (my comp' is from 2010, remember ;)) so... is it really worth it for me to buy a 7200RPM ? Especially since I never was used to faster speed :P (of course I would love to have better hardware, but saving money is more important for now, especially considering it's an old comp')

Oh by the way, I sometimes saw SATA and SATA III : should I worry about that, or as long as it's SATA, there won't be any issue ?

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ariaspi: Yes, you follow that article and google for the Hardware Ids - should find the manufacturer and model.
Oooh. Sounds very easy indeed.
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ariaspi: Something like this.
Ah, I understand !! The second usb cable is to plug simply to have more power from the comp' !

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Ganni1987: It seems I'm a bit late to the party.

@ Splatch: If you want I can assist you in getting your system up and running again. Add me in GOG chat if you want and I will guide you through.

(I do PC repairs for a living and will gladly help you save some money)
Ahah, you're still welcome here :)
That's really very kind from you ! I'll keep people informed in this thread of evolutions (and eventually issues :P), and if I really need help, I'll ask you :) Thank you very much for your proposal ! (I'm sending you a friend request, this way we'll be able to talk to each other if there is the need to)
Thanks to you and everyone else here, I'm a lot more confident and am pretty certain I'll succeed in all the operations I'll need to do :) Thanks again all, I'm very grateful ! :D
That's such a relief compared to the nightmare I went through during almost a week !

And by the way, backuping is slow but still going well apparently : transfer rate is at almost 4,8Mo/s (!) at the moment, not hearing bad sounds from hdd (only very occasionally). It seems I'm lucky in my bad luck :)
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Ganni1987: There's a much easier way to install drivers: https://drp.su/en/
[...]
Note: Just one thing to watch out for is to make sure to disable any software (such as web browsers) that the driverpack might ask you to install along the drivers.
Okay, I take note !
I've got a "factory" dvd full of drivers burned through windows (I burned it in the same time than the system recovery dvds if I remember well). Could it suffice ? Should I better forget it and directly use your or some other softwares suggested in this thread ?

Oh another dumb question : a NAS harddrive, what is this ?
Post edited August 05, 2017 by Splatsch
Posted August 05, 2017
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richlind33: @Splatsch,

assuming you've stopped using old drive. When your system is up and running again, there's some decent free recovery software available, so if the old disk is still spinning you should be able to save some or all of the data, but bear in mind that it won't have the original file names. Good luck!
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Splatsch: Thanks :)
Well, if the "simply plug it and backup" plan doesn't work, I'll think about it at this moment ;)
Sure, if you want to do it the easy way. ;p

Tell me something, are you running the same version of Windows on the laptop and the dying drive? I ask because I have an old drive that's pretty much kaput, running Win 7 Home, but my PC is now running Win 7 Pro, and I was under the impression that I couldn't recover data the way you're doing it.

Good to see that you averted a disaster!
Posted August 05, 2017
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richlind33: Sure, if you want to do it the easy way. ;p
When it's possible, I infinitely prefer for this kind of operations ;)
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richlind33: Tell me something, are you running the same version of Windows on the laptop and the dying drive? I ask because I have an old drive that's pretty much kaput, running Win 7 Home, but my PC is now running Win 7 Pro, and I was under the impression that I couldn't recover data the way you're doing it.
Yes, that's the same version : Win7 64Bits Family Premium. But I think that luck has a big place here : my disk is certainly dying, but it seems he is a courteous disk and does it slowly, enabling me to try to save my data :) (and thanks to the advice of people here which helped a lot I think) But I'm sorry for you, I hope you succeeded in saving what you wanted, and without too much hassle :P

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richlind33: Good to see that you averted a disaster!
Oh I'm very glad for now, it could have been sooo much worst ! I only hope now that I'll be able to finish the backup (it's sloooow) and that there won't be a bad surprise with badly copied files.
But : never again. I'll try as much as possible to backup my data now.
Post edited August 05, 2017 by Splatsch
Posted August 05, 2017
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HereForTheBeer: Anyway, it has worked well for me: on three laptops, a desktop, and a NUC, Win7 and Win10. Worth a shot unless other folks give it a resounding NO vote.
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timppu: I might try that, but as I mentioned, I usually don't manually update any other drivers than GPU graphics drivers, and let other drivers remain on what Windows installs. So far it has worked fine for me, everything works. I recall sometimes Windows Update itself might want to update some drivers, in which case I let it fo its stuff.

Have you seen some specific benefits running such overall driver update on everything? Better performance, or just more reliable?
Simplicity is the main reason: I can run the program and let it do its thing when I want it to. The other reason - not really applicable for most folks here, I suspect - is that my sucktastic internet speed means Windows Updates don't always go through. When I travel and stay at a hotel with a decent connection, I can run SlimDrivers there and let it find driver updates for me. At least this way I know that a driver scan was performed. If I let Windows do it, I'm never really sure it actually found anything.

As far as it doing it faster, I feel it does a decent job at it - considering it's searching for drivers for all of the hardware. Hasn't caused any problems so far, but that's not to say it might not provide a problem driver for some weird hardware. And I'm not sure it'll look for things like printer drivers. Don't recall it ever coming up with one of those; or maybe I've always had the latest ones installed already.

Best tip I've found is to be smart about the order you choose to install them. Do the chipset drivers first and that will knock out of lot of hits in one shot.
Posted August 05, 2017
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Splatsch: Hum... My dying disk has this ref : western digital wdc wd20EADS-22R6B0 (it's maybe this one but I'm not sure exactly). So there are good chances it was already at 5400 RPM so... of course faster hdd would be great but the only other WD of 2To I found on the site was [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/western-digital-red-pro-desktop-2-to-26440894#moid:MO-4A0ABM65126732]this one[/url] but it's a "red" model, and double the price, which is.. too "luxuous" for my wallet :S I can't find the blue version with 7200RPM on the site. I found a [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/seagate-disque-dur-interne-barracuda-3-5-2000-go-bulk-7200rpm-64mb-sata-6-0gb-s-st2000dm006-26565928#moid:MO-A036EM64945100]Seagate 2To for 75€[/url]. But I don't know this brand at all (and their SAV), and I mainly want a drive of good quality which will last :) (and a good SAV if there is an issue) I'm not playing "huge" games (my comp' is from 2010, remember ;)) so... is it really worth it for me to buy a 7200RPM ? Especially since I never was used to faster speed :P (of course I would love to have better hardware, but saving money is more important for now, especially considering it's an old comp')
Seagate used to be the brand to get, due to reliability and a great 5 year warranty on their drives. Now WD is widely considered to be one of the best. But there's really nothing wrong with Seagate either. You get a 5 year warranty with the WD Black drives, but only a 3 year warranty with all their others. And that's the same as you get with Seagate. I've personally got a good 7 or 8 Seagate drives in various builds and have never had an issue with them. So, don't be afraid to grab one if you see a decent deal.

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Splatsch: Oh by the way, I sometimes saw SATA and SATA III : should I worry about that, or as long as it's SATA, there won't be any issue ?
SATA 3 is the newest standard (faster data throughput), but any hardware that's rated SATA 3 should be backwards compatible with SATA (it will just perform to SATA standards as opposed to SATA 3, so you won't notice the difference).

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Splatsch: Oh another dumb question : a NAS harddrive, what is this ?
Network Attached Storage. While you could use this as a regular drive, it's not recommended, as their data correction isn't as robust as your standard desktop drives like the WD blacks, blues, and other drives.
Posted August 05, 2017
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HereForTheBeer: ...
I was referring to updated drivers (other than GPU). Do you see some specific benefits from doing it, e.g. updating Intel chipset (not the GPU) drivers to the latest version? Does it make the system faster, less likely to crash (so much that you actually notice it)? Or are those updated drivers mostly for supporting some newer hardware types, which doesn't necessarily affect me as the current drivers obviously support my hardware already?

As said, I tried Intel's own "driver scanner" which is supposed to scan and update all Intel-provided drivers in the system... but it couldn't find even the Intel HD 620 GPU, until I manually updated its drivers to the last version. so what's the point of using that scanner if I have to update all Intel drivers first manually anyway?
Posted August 05, 2017
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Splatsch: Okay, I take note !
I've got a "factory" dvd full of drivers burned through windows (I burned it in the same time than the system recovery dvds if I remember well). Could it suffice ? Should I better forget it and directly use your or some other softwares suggested in this thread ?

Oh another dumb question : a NAS harddrive, what is this ?
If you have an official drivers dvd you can use that. Aside from graphics drivers there's almost no difference to which drivers you use for the rest of the hardware.


NAS: Network Attached Storage, it's basically a box with a hard disk(s) inside which you plug to your router. Setup is often done through a web browser. It's quite handy for storing files as you don't need a monitor once set up and consumes very little power :)
Posted August 05, 2017
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GR00T: Seagate used to be the brand to get, due to reliability and a great 5 year warranty on their drives. Now WD is widely considered to be one of the best. But there's really nothing wrong with Seagate either. You get a 5 year warranty with the WD Black drives, but only a 3 year warranty with all their others. And that's the same as you get with Seagate. I've personally got a good 7 or 8 Seagate drives in various builds and have never had an issue with them. So, don't be afraid to grab one if you see a decent deal. [...]
Okay ! So there shouldn't be a big difference except the price. I see that in both cases warranty is of 2 years (but maybe it's the shop site who doesn't show when warranty is longer, that happens).

Since you all advice a 7200RPM, I found two main possibilities : taking this Seagate of 2To for 75€ (or maybe this one?, but it's more expensive), or taking two WD of 1To for 46€x2= 92€. Both are 7200RPM and with 2 years of warranty.
But there are some questions :
- can my pc power alimentation be problematic ? I mean, if I was running a harddrive who was only running at 5400RPM, wouldn't be a hdd running at 7200RPM be "too much" ? Same question for two harddrives running at this speed ? It's an old comp' so I'm a bit worry (oh, and concerning electricity bill : would that impact it to have 2 harddrives ? Sounds dumb, but I 've no idea at all of the power consumption of this kind of things).
- Taking two drives would be the safest for the data I assume, but for putting them inside the comp', I'm a bit afraid of not knowing where to put the second one, and I don't have the cables to plug it inside (and if possible I would prefer to avoid to have to plug new things inside the comp', when I see how "complicated" it was to unplug the hdd, I'm a bit afraid for putting another one inside). But it seems I have a kind of place to insert a second hdd with what seems to be a sata plug in the bottom of the case (see here and here). But it's a bit dusty : not a lot, but should I be worry if I want to put a hdd inside ? And maybe it's what I need to simply put my second hdd ?
- What does mean "bulk" in the name of the drive ?
- And finally : what would you advice between the two choices ? Of course I highly tend to prefer the seagate way because it's the cheapest and easier. But maybe I should go the WD way ?
If I go WD way, I must hurry because it's summer sales and they end tomorrow at end of the day. For the Seagate, it's its regular price so not such hurry :) (except maybe for stocks)

Thanks for the explanations :)

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Ganni1987: If you have an official drivers dvd you can use that. Aside from graphics drivers there's almost no difference to which drivers you use for the rest of the hardware.

NAS: Network Attached Storage, it's basically a box with a hard disk(s) inside which you plug to your router. Setup is often done through a web browser. It's quite handy for storing files as you don't need a monitor once set up and consumes very little power :)
Sounds nice :) I only hope things will go smoothly.
Ok, I understand more, and it's not for me at all ! Thank you !

Edit : In case it could help, I found the [url=ftp://ftp.packardbell.com/pub/itemnr/CS265F00/SG_PB_iXmM5850.pdf]service guide[/url] of my comp', with a lot of pictures of the inside & different ways to plug hdd's if I understand correctly (p46 to p49).
Post edited August 05, 2017 by Splatsch
Posted August 05, 2017
As with every electronic product these days, you can be unlucky and get a defective one that will break in a few months or be lucky in getting a good one and having no problems for many years. Regardless of what brand you choose, you should be fine as long as you backup your important data regularly.

In your situation, I would go with this here. WD, Toshiba and Seagate are the only HDD manufacturers left nowadays.

Bulk means that it comes without any accessories, cables, screws, just wrapped in an anti static plastic bag, so it's cheaper. You probably have those so it shouldn't be a problem.

You may want to try DiskCheckup and get some info about your drives, check the SMART attributes that will tell you if problems are detected.
Out of curiosity, check the Power On Time on your old drive and see for how many hours has it run. Mine, which is 4 years old, has 24313 hours. But it might not show the SMART info while it's inside that external enclosure.

A HDD should draw about 6-9 W. How many hours a day is your computer running?

Edit:
Extra info from Linus. :P
Post edited August 05, 2017 by ariaspi
Posted August 05, 2017
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ariaspi: As with every electronic product these days, you can be unlucky and get a defective one that will break in a few months or be lucky in getting a good one and having no problems for many years. Regardless of what brand you choose, you should be fine as long as you backup your important data regularly.
I'll try back up as regularly as possible now :)
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ariaspi: In your situation, I would go with this [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/toshiba-p300-high-performance-hard-drive-2tb-bulk-27378234#moid:MO-78DA6M66697524]Toshiba[/url]. I'd put Toshiba on par with WD. A bit of history [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/toshiba-p300-high-performance-hard-drive-2tb-bulk-27378234#moid:MO-78DA6M66697524]here[/url]. WD, Thosiba and Seagate are the only HDD manufacturers left nowadays.
I heard a lot of good things about Toshiba, there are very good chances I'll take this one ! thanks for finding it for me ! :D (but the "history" link send me the same shop page than your earlier link ;))
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ariaspi: Bulk means that it comes without any accessories, cables, screws, just wrapped in an anti static plastic bag, so it's cheaper. You probably have those so it shouldn't be a problem.
Yep, I stored the four little screws, and the wires are in the exact same place : I only unplugged the hdd. This kind of harddrives (3,5" I mean) use always the same little screws on the side and are always the same size ? (for the power and sata cable, I guess it's always the same kind of cables who are used)
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ariaspi: You may want to try DiskCheckup and get some info about your drives, check the SMART attributes that will tell you if problems are detected.
Out of curiosity, check the Power On Time on your old drive and see for how many hours has it run. Mine, which is 4 years old, has 24313 hours. But it might not show the SMART info while it's inside that external enclosure.
According to Speccy & Defraggler, my dying drive is :
I'll do the SMART check after all the backup and tell you the result :)
On Defraggler & Speccy, there are some infos though, and especially the Power On Time : 871 days on Speccy, 876 on Defraggler. Which is almost 21024 hours. SMART infos are the infos automatically showed in speccy or defraggler ? Or it's something different ?
By the way, in speccy & defraggler, I can't see the RPM of the dying drive, but I can for my external drive and my laptop drive.
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ariaspi: A HDD should draw about 6-9 W. How many hours a day is your computer running?
Ok, so two drives would consume a bit more. Not too much, but if I can avoid, it's always welcome. It's running all the day : let's say on average 14 hours per day ? It serves for everything : 'work' & entertainment (I don't have tv, hi-fi system...)
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ariaspi: Edit:
Extra info from Linus. :P
I'll watch at that after the diner while continuing backup :)

Edit : Oh and btw : what are your thoughts about WD Lifeguard Diagnostic software ? It does the same thing than the one you advised to me, expect it's specific to WD drives ? So DiskCheckup is better advised ?
And I read somewhere power supply component of the computer (I don't know the correct technical word) could damage the harddrive, can this be a problem on my comp' ? (asking because it's old :P)
Post edited August 05, 2017 by Splatsch
Posted August 05, 2017
I've bought various WD Mybook (5400rpm) and I found them quite good for backup (the oldest one has 5 years).
The new models get a bit hotter than the previous ones, though.

I'd avoid a NAS, because it doesn't protect you against viruses. It's better to have an offline backup, even if it's less convenient to use.

Btw, I use a program with alerts that constantly checks temperatures and status of the HDDs: CrystalDiskInfo
(there is also Hwinfo64, but it's less immediate)
Post edited August 05, 2017 by phaolo
Posted August 05, 2017
Yup, I pasted the wrong link but fixed few minutes later. :D Screws and cable should be the same, very slim chances that won't fit.

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Splatsch: According to Speccy & Defraggler, my dying drive is :
I'll do the SMART check after all the backup and tell you the result :)
On Defraggler & Speccy, there are some infos though, and especially the Power On Time : 871 days on Speccy, 876 on Defraggler. Which is almost 21024 hours. SMART infos are the infos automatically showed in speccy or defraggler ? Or it's something different ?
By the way, in speccy & defraggler, I can't see the RPM of the dying drive, but I can for my external drive and my laptop drive.

Edit : Oh and btw : what are your thoughts about WD Lifeguard Diagnostic software ? It does the same thing than the one you advised to me, expect it's specific to WD drives ? So DiskCheckup is better advised ?
And I read somewhere power supply component of the computer (I don't know the correct technical word) could damage the harddrive, can this be a problem on my comp' ? (asking because it's old :P)
Yes, those are the SMART infos. Sometimes external drives or drives attached with HDD caddies don't show the SMART info. Probably will show the RPM when you put it back in the PC. It depends on software too.

I haven't used WD Lifeguard Diagnostic - didn't have any problems with WD drives so far (*knocks on wood* :D). But it's usually good to use the software from the drive's manufacturer, can do extra tests maybe. Nothing wrong to use different progs that basically do the same thing, no single software is perfect. So use Defraggler to quickly check the SMART info and the WD software and DiskCheckup when extra info is needed or do some tests.

Defective power supply would normally fry some components or restart/power off the system. Your drive isn't dying because of it.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlS6N8rz8U8]Linus. :P
Posted August 05, 2017
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phaolo: I've bought various WD Mybook (5400rpm) and I found them quite good for backup (the oldest one has 5 years).
The new models get a bit hotter than the previous ones, though.

I'd avoid a NAS, because it doesn't protect you against viruses. It's better to have an offline backup, even if it's less convenient to use.

Btw, I use a program with alerts that constantly checks temperatures and status of the HDDs: CrystalDiskInfo
(there is also Hwinfo64, but it's less immediate)
Thanks for the infos & advices :)
I'll certainly try HWinfo64 when I'll have finished my backup ;) I'm already currently using Speccy which already tells me some infos on my hardware in realtime :) (but you certainly know it) But I'll take a look to CrystalDiskInfo, it seems very interesting !

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ariaspi: Yup, I pasted the wrong link but fixed few minutes later. :D
Ahah no problem :)
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ariaspi: Yes, those are the SMART infos. Sometimes external drives or drives attached with HDD caddies don't show the SMART info. Probably will show the RPM when you put it back in the PC. It depends on software too.
Ok ! But maybe it's not showing RPM because it's in bad health ? Sometimes temperature isn't available too for the dying drive.
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ariaspi: I haven't used WD Lifeguard Diagnostic - didn't have any problems with WD drives so far (*knocks on wood* :D). But it's usually good to use the software from the drive's manufacturer, can do extra tests maybe. Nothing wrong to use different progs that basically do the same thing, no single software is perfect. So use Defraggler to quickly check the SMART info and the WD software and DiskCheckup when extra info is needed or do some tests.
Okay ! I'll do the test inside defraggler and the WD Lifeguard Diagnostic, and maybe I'll use your tool too after to confirm the results. By the way, I'm thinking of finally not using the dying drive as much as possible after the backup, to have an eventual "emergency backup" in case backup went badly for a file : I guess testing a drive is bad for it if it's in bad condition ? Are there particular tests to avoid but others I could do ? (I'm thinking of Defraggler or maybe DiskCheckup since you know it more)
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ariaspi: Defective power supply would normally fry some components or restart/power off the system. Your drive isn't dying because of it.
That's reassuring me a lot, thank you :)
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ariaspi: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlS6N8rz8U8]Linus. :P
Watched the 3 videos and even 1 more about VRAM : it's very understandable and not annoying to follow at all ! (which is really hard to do for this kind of videos) So that's interesting, thanks for the links :) I understood what is VRAM now ! (I always wondered...)

So, I think I'll buy this [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/toshiba-p300-high-performance-hard-drive-2tb-bulk-27378234#moid:MO-78DA6M66697524]Toshiba hdd of 2To for 70€[/url]. I'll buy it in in a couple of hours if no voice says I shouldn't :)
Post edited August 05, 2017 by Splatsch
Posted August 06, 2017
I use CrystalDiskInfo a lot, when a system is slow, crashes or starts going funky that's one of the first programs I check. While most of the SMART data can be confusing, there's a few important ones that indicate a dying drive: Lots of Read Error rates, Reallocated Sectors and Uncorrectable Sectors, too many of those and it's a sign that the drive is going toast.


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Splatsch: So, I think I'll buy this [url=https://www.rueducommerce.fr/produit/toshiba-p300-high-performance-hard-drive-2tb-bulk-27378234#moid:MO-78DA6M66697524]Toshiba hdd of 2To for 70€[/url]. I'll buy it in in a couple of hours if no voice says I shouldn't :)
Toshiba aren't exactly the most popular drives, but they do the job. Technically it's Hitachi technology under the hood (Toshiba bought off Hitachi's HDD business a few years ago).

For the record I have a 320GB Hitachi in another PC which after years of use it has no read errors nor bad sectors. I'd say go for it :-)
Post edited August 06, 2017 by Ganni1987
Posted August 06, 2017
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Splatsch: Ok ! But maybe it's not showing RPM because it's in bad health ? Sometimes temperature isn't available too for the dying drive.
Maybe, but my guess is because it's inside that caddy.

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Splatsch: Okay ! I'll do the test inside defraggler and the WD Lifeguard Diagnostic, and maybe I'll use your tool too after to confirm the results. By the way, I'm thinking of finally not using the dying drive as much as possible after the backup, to have an eventual "emergency backup" in case backup went badly for a file : I guess testing a drive is bad for it if it's in bad condition ? Are there particular tests to avoid but others I could do ? (I'm thinking of Defraggler or maybe DiskCheckup since you know it more)
Defraggler has no tests, it's just the Health tab that shows the SMART attributes and says if something is good or not. It's convenient that you can check that every time you defrag the drive. DiskCheckup has some self tests, but you'll see when using it. At the moment there's no need to do any tests on the bad drive, you already know it's dying. When everything is backed-up you can do that and see which program offers better info.

After you finish with the backup, put the bad drive away. Install windows and everything on the new one and start checking your backed-up files from the external drive, see if everything is okay. Maybe you'll need to try and copy again some files from the bad one.

Btw, you should enable the check box Disable Benchmark After Defrag in Defraggler's Options. I find it useless, it just wears down the drive without any real purpose.
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Ganni1987: I use CrystalDiskInfo a lot, when a system is slow, crashes or starts going funky that's one of the first programs I check. While most of the SMART data can be confusing, there's a few important ones that indicate a dying drive: Lots of Read Error rates, Reallocated Sectors and Uncorrectable Sectors, too many of those and it's a sign that the drive is going toast.
I find DiskCheckup a bit better, have you try it? It explains what every attribute means. Anyway, the best practice is to use multiple programs that basically do the same thing.

Edit:
Correcting spelling errors.
Post edited August 06, 2017 by ariaspi
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