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The most blatant example of a game trying to stuff a message down the gamers throat is AMERICA'S ARMY - the game which the American government paid 33 millon dollars for and released for free, and which clearly stated purpose was to to convince the kids playing it that joining the army was a grand idea.

Some people argues that violent games leads to real life violence. With America's Army, the crusaders against video game violence are presented with a game which fits their agenda like a glove: it is produced solely with the intention of making the players replicate its violence in real life, and it is not just some small indie game, but a million dollar government investment. But since attacking America's Army would go against the crusaders right-wing beliefs, this game is spared from their wrath.

Some gamers don't want games with 'messages' in them. Gaming, they insist, should 'just be for fun'. This group has also refrained from criticizing America's Army, despite that is actually a rather unique example of a big-budget game being build around a millitant propaganda message.

So, why didn't they criticize this particular game and its message? I think the reason was that the games message doesn't collide with their idea of fun. Both millitary propaganda and traditional video games are build around a black and white idea of "fighting the enemy". When they say that they don't like games with messages, they actually mean that they don't like message that scrub against their world view.

Tropes VS Women pointed out some of the build-in messages in video games. Messages we don't question or even notice. Note here that the the video series only looked at messages in video games regarding the topic of women. Similar analysis could be made on how games messages on topics such as war, economy, conflict and so on. All games have messages. They are loaded with them, and they stuff them down the players throat all the time.

So why don't we feel like we are being indoctrinated and manipulated when we play those games? That is because we are experienced gamers. We have played a shooter before. They feel comfy. We are in a safe zone, where our guards are down. We don't analyse everything from scratch, but instead focus our attention on how this games stick out - is the graphic okay, are there any gameplay innovations?

All games have messages, but when a game tries to use a message that goes against the mainstream, it sticks out. It easily ends up looking forced. So while it is rather easy to make something which sticks to the usual messages, trying to go against the norm is a lot harder.

The game FTL features a random encounter where the player is introduced to the idea that the opposing forces should put their differencies aside and learn to live with each other. Nice and progressive, and I sucked it right up. But after that the game just went back to the 'fighting the rebels' thing, since this was what the game was about. FTL and most other games are based on violence. Fighting the enemy is the foundation of most gameplay mechanics. This makes the games fit more with reactionary world views than with progressive ones.

But I think the fun core can survive quite fine without stuffing reactionary messages down the players throat. Okay, now I'm going to make a spoiler regarding a certain movie.

- SPOILER BEGIN -

The japanese zombie rock'n roll cult flick WILD ZERO is an example of how progressive messages and crazy fun can co-exist. An ordinary rock'n roll fanboy meet a cute girl during a zombie appocalypse. Halfway through the movie it is revealed that said 'girl' kind of have, you know, male anatomy.
This freaks the guy out big time. And then the rock star Guitar Wolf suddenly materializes and declares: "Love have no borders, nationalities or genders! DO IT !!!"
Having a rock star materialize out of thin air is something which can't be argued against, so the guy sets out to find his dream girl again, convinced that this antomical detail isn't such a big deal after all. They get each other in the end, while Guitar Wolf slices an alien mothership in half with his samurai sword.

- SPOILER END -

While on the topic, the game NOSTRADAMUS: THE LAST PROPHETHY implement cross-dressing as a gameplay mechanic, letting the player toggle between two different identies. There is something rather crazy about being a guy who play a game where he is a woman who dresses up like a guy.

The game DEPRESSION QUEST makes the rather brave decision not to define if you play a man or a woman. Instead, the game just says that "You are a mid-twenties human being." The strange thing with this is that it actually works - I got into the role of this character, despite not knowing if the person has a penis or not.

The fighting game THE BLACK HEART features a fighter called Animus who constantly changes sex during battles,

I found this youtube video: Top 5 - Transsexual characters in games
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This is going to be fun.

First of which, the people I met who wanted to join the United States Army, Marine Corps, Air Force, Navy, or Coast Guard did so not because of video games but because of their own reasons ranging from patriotism to a desire to be apart of something far greater than themselves. I believe spending money on a video game was a dumb idea but that's because I felt it should have gone into training simulations instead.

As for that Tropes vs. Women BS, that whole series was exactly that: BS. The bitch just picks highly selective crap and makes it sound something larger than it actually is. I'm not saying that subliminal messages don't exist or that there is blatant propaganda but that bitch was basically being highly selective and comes across as a con artist.

As for progressive and reactionary, progressives are not. Also, the term "reactionary" is just a mindless insult against people who have a good idea that just so happens to be old or ancient. I say this not just as someone who can be described as a "traditionalist" but as someone who is tired of mindless ad hominen.

As for games, a game is suppose to be entertainment nothing more. If I want deep philosophy or analysis, there are plenty of books, articles, and forums available. I don't even like when Hollywood tries to shove its "diversity," "progressive," anti-patriot, anti-country, and anti-hunter agenda down people's throats.

By the way, as for that feminist bitch...
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Doesn't Anita Sarkeesian look a bit like Sandra Bullock?
Kasper, do you ever enjoy anything?
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rtcvb32: Doesn't Anita Sarkeesian look a bit like Sandra Bullock?
No. She looks more like Fran Drescher.
I'm a person who believes that none is being shoved down our throats, unless it is directly, almost to the point of being physical (like in the games industry for example, "messing with my wallet"). I say this because, despite the fact that I think of myself as a not-so-smart-person, still I developed the incredible ability of not giving a F.

For that I say, let it be, let people talk and expose their ideas, philosophies, or what have you. Listen/read/watch/play (or not) and if you this that those people happen to be wrong, they will remain wrong, and you wil still be moving on, because you didn't gave a F. You've stepped away, it didn't affect your personal life, nor did it affect your personal beliefs direclty.
And if it happens that those ideas end up changing your mind or the environment around you, so what? What are you afraid of? You shouldn't fear a different perspective or knowledge.


Proposing to ban, censor, destroy, silence, etc. will always lead to conflict, because like I've said, it affects people more directly. There's always room for rational discussion.



With all that said, I don't know WTF I've just read. Japan has the weirdest ideas .-.
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rtcvb32: Doesn't Anita Sarkeesian look a bit like Sandra Bullock?
I find that offensive for Sandra Bullock. Also, now I want to watch some movies with her. She's one amazing actress.
Isn't America's Army more than a decade old by now? I'm surprised that it even still exists, though it definitely got called out by many gamers for being thinly-veiled propaganda way back. Of course, I'm well aware that Googling something that would have gone against your narrative was probably out of the question given your well-documented zealotry on the topic.

Also, I'm disappointed that this thread didn't end up featuring militant cross-dressing. Probably should have started with cross-dressing so as to not allow the adjective to apply to both nouns.
Ageless Faceless Gender Neutral Culturally Ambiguous Adventure Person protagonists are hardly a new thing.
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rtcvb32: Doesn't Anita Sarkeesian look a bit like Sandra Bullock?
I think she looks more like Anne Hathaway. When I first saw that pic I hoped that someone had gotten rid of Anita by shooting her into space. A man can dream...

And sorry for going off-topic here, will read OP's wall of text tomorrow.
Post edited January 19, 2015 by F4LL0UT
She looks like Flo from the Progressive commercials.
Off topic:

She just looks like a person to me, an ignorant lying thieving repugnant person.

On topic:

Faceless Protagonists with an undefined gender are not new and no one is joining the army because of a videogame, that's just facepalm worthy. Its like buying a beer because the commercial had the swedish bikini team appear when you cracked a beer.
Post edited January 19, 2015 by ScotchMonkey
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infinite9: First of which, the people I met who wanted to join the United States Army, Marine Corps, Air Force, Navy, or Coast Guard did so not because of video games but because of their own reasons ranging from patriotism to a desire to be apart of something far greater than themselves. I believe spending money on a video game was a dumb idea but that's because I felt it should have gone into training simulations instead.
Nope, the human mind don't work like that. When we are asked about the reason why we behave a certain way, our conscious mind don't have access to the raw data. So all we can do to make a guess, which just as easily can be total bullshit.

The book You Are Not So Smart lists countless examples of this - the science guys manipulate their subject into behaving a certain way, and then they listen to the subject make shit up to explain their behavior; bullshit answers which the honestly believe is the truth. (I can recommend the book btw.)

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ScotchMonkey: and no one is joining the army because of a videogame, that's just facepalm worthy.
Is it now? Why is it so unthinkable that a rather powerful medium such as games could work as propaganda?

has an article which says: <div class="quot">According to a Washington Examiner report published last month, one quoted Air Force colonel said that in his experience, video game proficiency (not specific to America's Army) has made younger recruits significantly more adept with modern remote warfare techniques, but in many cases has also left them "worse at distorting the reality of [war] from the virtual nature." </div> So this colonel can directly spot the way in which war games has influenced the recruits expectations. Isn't that saying something?<div class="quot quot_text normal_color "><div class="small_avatar_2_h"><img src="/upload/avatars/2010/12/f7512729f66fdfd48f6548bcf2011ac64d3b4560_t.jpg" width="16" height="16" alt="avatar" /></div><span class="quot_text"><span class="quot_user_name">Gonchi: </span></span>Ageless Faceless Gender Neutral Culturally Ambiguous Adventure Person protagonists are hardly a new thing. <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/militant_propaganda_and_crossdressing_in_video_games/post9" class="link_arrow"></a></div> <div class="quot quot_text normal_color "><div class="small_avatar_2_h"><img src="/upload/avatars/2012/11/8d953cd83fd0e68f62651aa8bb2bc86493590cd3_t.jpg" width="16" height="16" alt="avatar" /></div><span class="quot_text"><span class="quot_user_name">ScotchMonkey: </span></span>Faceless Protagonists with an undefined gender are not new <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/militant_propaganda_and_crossdressing_in_video_games/post12" class="link_arrow"></a></div> Normally, the faceless-undefined-gender protagonist exists in games where he or she doesn't play a role in the story as such - he/she is just a force that make stuff happens, solves puzzles, finds gold keys, but who he/she actually is is irrelevant for the story. Depression Quest is different. The focus of the game is the mental state of the protagonist. So it is rather a new idea here, and one that has been critisized by some.<div class="quot quot_text normal_color "><div class="small_avatar_2_h"><img src="/upload/avatars/2011/05/08ef0f293492c5608d40d6fee1155bd63c9af167_t.jpg" width="16" height="16" alt="avatar" /></div><span class="quot_text"><span class="quot_user_name">227: </span></span>Isn't America's Army more than a decade old by now? I'm surprised that it even still exists, though [url=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=America%27s%20Army&amp;defid=1002987]it definitely got called out by many gamers for being thinly-veiled propaganda way back. Of course, I'm well aware that Googling something that would have gone against your narrative was probably out of the question given your well-documented zealotry on the topic.
Yes, of course some people criticized it - but I think that America's Army and other wargames falls into the category that the average GamerGate guy consider to be "just fun", as opposite to those other distateful games which have "messages" in them.
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227: Also, I'm disappointed that this thread didn't end up featuring militant cross-dressing. Probably should have started with cross-dressing so as to not allow the adjective to apply to both nouns.
Good point! I'm truly sorry for the lazily constructed headline (also sorry for the lack of millitant cross-dressing in video games)
33 million? Much better games have been made for a LOT less.

I generally don't pay attention to message in video games.
K.