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General discussionMeanwhile in Köln/Cologne.... (warning: politics inside)(569 posts) (569 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 08, 2016
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MaGo72: Your TL;DR lacks a lot of details^^
That's the purpose of a TL;DR and of course it's biased due to my understanding of the base text's content ;-)
Post edited January 08, 2016 by DeMignon
Posted January 08, 2016
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MaGo72: Your TL;DR lacks a lot of details^^
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DeMignon: That's the purpose of a TL;DR and of course it's biased due to my understanding of the base text's content ;-)
Well you left out the migrant component which was mentioned several times by the police officer and also that we are talking about "several thousand, mainly men with a migration background".

If there are Syrian refugees under them, who knows.

I mainly ask myself, what is the greater scheme here. Something does not add up, humanitarian and altruistic intentions were never favored by politics. What is the greater plan, I do not buy the cheap labor argument. Is the goal to have us here in Europe at each others throats, social unrest?

I remember the speech from the Stratfor CEO about Europe and it fits to what is happening.
Post edited January 08, 2016 by MaGo72
Posted January 08, 2016
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MaGo72: ... If there are Syrian refugees under them, who knows...
According to the article which I linked in the following post yes:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/meanwhile_in_kolncologne_warning_politics_inside/post192
Post edited January 08, 2016 by quisquid
Posted January 08, 2016
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MaGo72: I mainly ask myself, what is the greater scheme here. Something does not add up, humanitarian and altruistic intentions were never favored by politics. What is the greater plan, I do not buy the cheap labor argument. Is the goal to have us here in Europe at each others throats, social unrest?
They are very good workers, so good, that Germany needs to prolong working age to 74 :/
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article140224066/Nur-die-Rente-mit-74-kann-Deutschland-noch-helfen.html

If you wouldn't mind some tinfoil-level Russian propaganda - it's pretty organized attempt to kill Eurounion as potential competitor for US and Germany as its locomotive.
http://www.bvoltaire.fr/nicolasbonnal/americains-ont-organise-invasion-de-europe,200167
http://nosecret.info/invasion-of-refugees/
https://twitter.com/lotteleicht1/status/637934077635612672 - people (affilated to US-owned structures), not living in Germany, invite people to... Germany.
France, probably, already doomed:
http://www.bfmtv.com/societe/nouvel-an-804-vehicules-incendies-en-france-un-chiffre-en-baisse-de-145percent-940550.html
800 cars burned overnight, safe Europe.

What you, probably, miss in this smokescreen:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-imf-idUSKBN0TR28Q20151208
Subtle layer - what if PIGS would default their debt to Germany, but continue to get money from IMF... That would kill euro as currency.
Britain leaving Eurounion would be good indicator of huge social explosion in nearer future.
Post edited January 08, 2016 by Gremlion
Posted January 08, 2016
Where is Vainamoinen?
Attachments:
abandon_thread.jpg (143 Kb)
Posted January 08, 2016
So basically a lot of riot experienced immigrants from their homelands saw their opportunity to have some fun combined with police inexperienced with this behaviour?
There's a reason lethal and excessive force is used for breaking stuff like this up all over the world.
Posted January 08, 2016
So, exactly as I thought. German officials censored the data about refugees on the Plaza but thankfully Police did their work and recognized them for what they are and filled an official truthful report but was totally understaffed for dealing with their non European behavior.

Undoubtedly we will see more of this happening especially with Police in Europe being totally unprepared for something like this. I guess the Police will soon copy the working style from American police (aka shoot first, ask questions later). I wonder what will happen after Mini Schengen comes in to effect in a few months time.

Source: http://www.bild.de/news/inland/sexuelle-noetigung/wurden-wir-ueber-den-sex-mob-belogen-44063040.bild.html
Post edited January 08, 2016 by Matruchus
Posted January 08, 2016
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MaGo72: snip
I don't think there is a greater scheme directly. It's the good intentions of solidarity, reaching an unintended failure state. The proponents of the welfare system never believed the counter arguments about its perverse incentives - that's without even considering nuances coming from sociopolitical diversity. Sure there are cultural Marxists that see these outcomes as the path to revolution but they are a subversive minority. I believe most people never saw this coming. Expect them to be shocked or in denial (and therefore silent or angry) rather than gleefully taking advantage of the opportunity.

In fact the far right are the ones gleefully taking advantage of the opportunity (wholly undeservedly IMO - they have been given a gift without meriting it) - by which I include Russia by the way, as Gremlion's post happily reminds us. Because despite rhetoric, there is only one thing Russia would like more than a fragmented Europe that cannot coordinate to oppose it. That would be a coordinated Europe that aligns with it - which is not going to happen, as events in Georgia and Ukraine proved over the past decade.

So basically, I think you might be a bit in denial at how rudderless the boat actually is... sometimes there is no overarching scheme. Order simply emerges out of chaos. Like life - there is no need for any planner.
Posted January 08, 2016
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MaGo72: snip....
Thanks for your work. Upvoted and added to the OP ;)

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Gremlion: If you wouldn't mind some tinfoil-level Russian propaganda - it's pretty organized attempt to kill Eurounion as potential competitor for US and Germany as its locomotive.
Well, then you'll be glad to know that Russian "propaganda" has become quite popular in Western Europe those last few months thanks to the international deployement of RT aka "Russia Today", it's a common source cited as "alternative" media. So alternative that I've already seen some forum moderators banning people linking to RT articles or videos :o)

BTW, it's not only Russian as Viktor Orban already told more or less the same:
http://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/34762/Crise-des-refugies/article/detail/2509137/2015/10/30/L-Europe-a-ete-trahie-par-une-conspiration.dhtml
(in French but I think you can find back his statements in other languages around the date of 30th October)
Post edited January 08, 2016 by catpower1980
Posted January 08, 2016
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catpower1980: EDIT: upgraded the breitbart link to a BBC one as it's a more serious source
To be honest, you're throwing a bone to people who certainly haven't earned it. If you're going to ignore a news source and your only argument for that is "EWWW! RIGHT-WING, ICKY!", then this behaviour shouldn't be rewarded.

Besides, the BBC is far from an institution to be blindly trusted about their (journalistic) integrity. Here, have a look at what British filmmaker Peter Watkins has to say about the BBC. It's a long read, but highly illuminating.
Posted January 08, 2016
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Matruchus: German officials censored the data about refugees on the Plaza but thankfully Police did their work and recognized them for what they are
Yeah. No. I have no idea who those 'officials' are you are talking about. Could those be... the police again?

At the very least, you're falling into the trap of not distinguishing between migrants and [2015] refugees.

The police report translated up there speaks of migrants and not of refugees; however in two cases of taunts among the officer's bullet points, a direct connection to refugees can be drawn.

There are between 5,000 and 10,000 refugees in Cologne if my data is correct. There are, for comparison, 60,000+ Turkish people without a German ID in Cologne. Voila: migrants. And police are, right now, looking for suspects of e.g. North African descent (to my knowledge, not even a relevant percentage in Cologne's population).

The situation hasn't changed much since yesterday. Police is looking for organized crime, unlikely to come from fresh-from-the-train refugees. That police has met refugees remains without doubt, and that wasn't in doubt yesterday as well. But that a refugee tells them to treat him kindly because Mrs. Merkel has invited him, that shouldn't surprise anyone, and I'm a little confused as to how police thinks of this as an "incident". :|

At the time, police has 16 suspects (thank god). I'd like to know their origin, certainly.

Until then, keep your wits together, y'all.

.
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I can not translate the entire article, but Polish born Margarete Stokowski describes our present problem with dehumanisation succinctly. And explicitly mentions, as we've experienced right in this thread, how 'masses' of migrants or refugees are now being called animal names in commentary. It's gross.
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/margarete-stokowski-ueber-sexualisierte-gewalt-a-1070905.html

I'll translate a few striking parts below.

Those who point out that sexual violence hasn't first been coming to Germany with the refugees are accused of trivializing the events in Cologne. Feminists who have been writing about violence against women for years and decades are now accused of creating smoke screens to protect the Cologne offenders – which is absurd and shows how much the debate has gotten out of hand. It's as if someone shouted "there's fire in the kitchen!" and someone answers: "The fire's in the living room as well!", and the first answers: "What now, you're not going to call the fire brigade?". [...]

There should have been a debate about sexualized violence after every god damn Oktoberfest, after every carnival and every [football] world cup fan fest. But there wasn't. Because almost no one volunteers to involve herself in such ugly things and admit how prevalent assaults of this nature are. [...]

Well of course we'll have to talk about the ranking of the sexes in Arabic and North African countries – but that's just not enough. You can not outsource this discussion and declare it a foreigner problem.
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Gremlion: They are very good workers, so good, that Germany needs to prolong working age to 74 :/
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article140224066/Nur-die-Rente-mit-74-kann-Deutschland-noch-helfen.html

If you wouldn't mind some tinfoil-level Russian propaganda
Thanks, up to that point, I've really had enough of that. Ludicrous proposals of 74 as a retirement age aren't connected to the quality of German's workers.

Germany's population number is dropping rapidly. Somehow we don't procreate quickly enough to keep a steady population. That means that tomorrow's workforce may not be able to sustain the older retired generation. That's the problem. One solution is to raise retirement age.

Another way out is immigrants, which naturally comes with a whole new set of problems. A way out it would still be.
Post edited January 08, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted January 08, 2016
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Tarm: Typical. I'll have to hope some crafty soul out there saved it and will create a accurate english translation.
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catpower1980: Well, it would be good to make a kind of archive.is or something like that of the original webpages in case they gets deleted from the web in the future.

I at least made copy/paste in .txt format on my computer.
You can always save them as mht files - that's quite a useful way of offline archiving and keeping the original webpage intact.
Posted January 08, 2016
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fronzelneekburm: Where is Vainamoinen?
As you can see he is still here and I ask you to be merciful to him.
He is probably undergoing a certain disillusionment atm and having been in this situation myself when I began to have regular contact with oriental culture, I can only pity him.
Of course the denial will go on, but the seed of truth is planted and the truth is, that he was one of the big part of European population that wanted to include misogynist patriarchal culture into out society solely for the sake of multiculturalism and is having an increasingly hard time ignoring the results.
Pc-culture is like a religion and acting the same way, so the members have the same problems.

Been there, experienced that.
Post edited January 08, 2016 by Klumpen0815
Posted January 08, 2016
Thanks, up to that point, I've really had enough of that. Ludicrous proposals of 74 as a retirement age aren't connected to the quality of German's workers.

Germany's population number is dropping rapidly. Somehow we don't procreate quickly enough to keep a steady population. That means that tomorrow's workforce may not be able to sustain the older retired generation. That's the problem. One solution is to raise retirement age.

Another way out is [i]immigrants, which naturally comes with a whole new set of problems. A way out it would still be.[/i]

sorry, i dont think that incoming rabble is able to maintain automobile or other industries and their low morale will be transfered to their children, if any, in their paralel community. this mentality is mostly about slicing kebap at its best. how many kebap booths do you need in germany? not mentioning the much more radical islam than you know from current turks.

supporting natality of germans would be much better way cause such people will have much better relation to home country, more precise (german) nature and will be lead by their precise parents to education.

another problem is, that by invitating merkel did problem to others too cause of very tiny guarded frontiers insdide of schengen. btw i dont thing that greece is able to be in schengen to do its edge. it was the same mistake as make them part of eurozone. sooner i wanted euro in czech republic but greece changed my mind..
greece is very nice place for holiday but overall too lazy for almost whatever else than to be one big resort. not even able to guard their watters
Post edited January 08, 2016 by flanner
Posted January 08, 2016
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flanner: sorry, i dont think that incoming rabble
Yeah, no, I've read until that point and no further.

Education level of Syrian refugees is quite high, BTW.

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Klumpen0815: wanted to include misogynist patriarchal culture into our society
Shouldn't that work out just wonderfully, integrating misogynist patriarchal culture into another misogynist patriarchal culture? Can't we just bond over our collective sexual assault on New Year's, carnival, Oktoberfest? Or should we rather take an holistic approach to get to the bottom of this mess?

I'm experiencing plenty disillusionment right now, but it's the disillusionment with the German ability of self reflection mostly. I assure you, the hands of the people screaming Ausländer raus loudest right now are the very same you'll suddenly find pressed on your girlfriend's buttocks come carnival.

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Klumpen0815: solely for the sake of multiculturalism
Not sure what kind of Kool-Aid you were breast fed on, but multiculturalism has never been an end in itself.

It is but one approach to making life between different cultures possible, one way of indeed assimilating each other's ways. Not an historically unsuccessful one, mind you: The Romans e.g. happily adopted customs, culture and goods of most of the lands they conquered; up to and including adopting a range of Greek and Persian gods with new names slapped on them. Well, the Greek had already taken some from Egyptian culture (Isis), so duh. And eventually the Romans adopted that strange little Middle Eastern religion called Christianity. That didn't exactly 'destroy' their culture either, did it?

What we think of as our greatest individual cultural heritage and treasure are all too often artists and authors that looked over the borders longingly. Shakespeare knew no end in loan translating French words to make them English; and evidently Goethe's heart belonged to Italy. And the much revered Czech Slav Epic artist, working by order of an American millionaire, invented an art style known by a French name for a reason. How's that for multicultural success stories.

TL;DR: The strength of a culture isn't to reject the foreign, but to devour it.
Post edited January 08, 2016 by Vainamoinen
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionMeanwhile in Köln/Cologne.... (warning: politics inside)(569 posts) (569 posts) 
(569 posts)