I must admit that the first time I saw Christmas Island as a location, I thought it was a joke. :-)

I am only willing to go with you up to a certain point. I personally am more than happy to say that, for the sake of argument, IF these were nominally muslims (which I happen to believe is the truth of the matter), that they were not good / devout muslims. But then we get into the whole "who speaks for Islam" topic, and there is a subset of fundamentalists that rationalizes attitudes even more barbaric as being perfectly religious. And you should know that, and that therefore we have not "ruled out fundamentalist Muslim due to the alcohol levels".

Likewise we will just have to agree to disagree on what the forest is. I just can't share your opinion on this. To me this Koln "tree" shares a lot more with Rotterham, than it does with other carnival cities. And what really pushes it into that level, is something you pointed out yourself: the evident level of organization / coordination necessary. Drunken abuses are a whole different scale, even if they are so common as to define the normality of Germany.

Thanks for being civil, and thanks for contributing to raise the level of discussion in this particular thread. I'll leave it at that.

OK, for non-German speakers:

I finally came across an English-subtitled version of the Ivan Jurcevic video. He's a bouncer (ex-boxer) working at an hotel nearby the train station and witnessed most of the events. He made a video testimony which was heavily shared on social medias (but it was in German only, duh). So now it's subtitled and can be added to the various girls testimonies (mainly in TV reports):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9TOdMzOH1U

Well, could you explain what you mean, when you say "bouncer"? When I read this, I have the imagination of a bouncing guy, bouncing like a football or like a basketball, but I guess this is not what you mean, or do you?

Türsteher, Rausschmeißer

As far as I understand bouncer is the who keeps an eye on/takes care of troublemakers in clubs, discos etc.

I just love german nouns :-D

Auf gut deutsch: Ein Rausschmeißer.

Guy says they were refugees (literally "the people we welcomed at the main station three months ago"). Which is the least credible seasoning to this version of events right now, unfortunately. What made him identify the foreign looking people as refugees, no one will ever know. And the way he continuously glorifies himself... errm.... I'm not sure what he witnessed and what is fabrication, and I'm not willing to call him a liar, but this still is baseless anti refugee propaganda at the very least.

I've watched a few subtitled German videos on youtube and ask you to take those with hefty grains of salt. These subtitles seem to have the tendency to add or change certain words here and there to tip the scales a little. :|

This looks too good to be true (Or bad depending on your viewpoint.). Not saying it's false but oh boy does that video hit so many trigger points...

Well, I really didn`t know wat a bouncer is, I didn`t soak up english slang with my mothers milk cause I`m German.
But thanks to you and other helpfull members of the community I know now what a bouncer is.
But I still have the picture of a bouncing guy in my mind..... :-)
It`s just too funny!

I always imagine some big guy bouncing someone out of the club with his big belly. *boing*

Like this one?

I am 31 this year and never have sex. I am not Islam nor Christian.

I just see sex as more trouble and dangers then its worth, and voluntarily suppressed it. While one can pay for sex, there are other safer fun activities then sex like games, reading, cycling, swimming etc.

I think humans, unlike animals can channel their own outlet in a way that does not harm themselves or others.

I don't know I represent the majority or minority of humans, but the humans around me seems able to avoid acting like animals. Maybe because I am in the part of Asia where sex before marriage is frown upon, and people have plenty of practice suppressing / channeling their urges to ways that does not harm themselves or others.

currently it's 4 am here and I' m so thouroughly and deeply digusted and pissed off by this brutish swinery I haven' t slept a bit yet. Yes, I' m rather oversensitive and not helping anyone.

suffice to say I think sexual harrasment or abuse in any way are just about the deepest pit of depravity you could sink into, and women being treated like discardable toys with benefits by males is just about as bad as humankind gets , for whatever cultural or religious or other equally backward reason it might be.

I' m going to brainstorm now, for a while; excersising the wise lessons Johnny the Homocidal Maniac told me in relation to ; just substitute "soccer hooligan" with "mysoginist Ape" and [url=http://orig02.deviantart.net/1c0b/f/2007/298/b/d/johnny_the_homicidal_maniac_by_king_lisa.jpg]let the imagination run wild

Coping methods...