Dont tell me they shot down a passenger airline

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-mh17-passenger-jet-crashes-ukraine-near-russian-border_n_5595450.html

They have. The problem is to determine who the "they" are. I very much doubt portable SAM's have the capabilities to catch an airliner at cruise speed and altitude. Interfax mentions a BUK missile. But the Ukrainian army has obviously another thesis. Expect a lot of disinformation and propaganda on this issue. After the destruction of an An 26 a few days ago, everyone will think about a missile and equate they = separatists. Reuters reports that the wreckage is spread over 15 km. The enquiry will tell whether the plane exploded in flight ( and then it could still be the result of a missile hit, albeit not the lighter type , or an internal explosion ).

So no doubts it crashed.
lenta.ru website has photos which prove that. Nothing gruesome there. Somehow I can't post urls.
here lenta.ru/photo/2014/07/17/boeing/
Ok. looks like the first post already has photos. Ok, sorry for double.

well according to my information sources, mh117 did land in area 51!

IF it was shot down by EITHER side, it will change the political playing field significantly, experts will be studying satellite images looking for possible smoke plumes around the area and if it can be PROVED either side actually shot it down there will be worldwide repercussions.

Horrible!
And I was thinking about flying next month to east asia.:/

You need to have a bit more rep to be able to post links.

Eastern Ukraine seems like a risky place to fly a passenger plane. :(

Gizmodo said some wingnut photoshopped a picture of the plane wreck from Lost to look like the MH17.

I cannot confirm nor deny if it is true, but I am watching LiveLeaks, BBC News 24, Russia Today, Al Jazeera and the news being repeated between more then only one source is.

1 - The plane has crashed and there are plenty of dead bodies (298 - keeps changing between channels). Images from RT and LiveLeaks confirm that the bodies are charred, broken and flattened. I have seen worse things that have happened to human bodies, but that still does not make these images any less saddening.
Some of the local reports have people claiming to have seen / heard bodies landing on the ground.

2 - The plane was a passenger jet, not another AN20.
They have different sizes, silhouette and would have been flying at separate heights especially within the Ukraine as there is a ban on passenger planes below 32,000 feet at the moment. This should be more then enough to avoid being shot down via RPG or conventional bullets.

3 - The "Rebels" do have access to a BUK missile base and at least 4 missiles. If the plane was shot down using one of these rockets then it should show once the investigators arrive to look at the plane. Quite a lot of the plane is still visible so hopefully when those who know better arrive they will be able to work quickly.
Twitter, LiveLeaks, BBC have all confirmed on the same information. The Rebels do appear to be capable of using it too, having already shot down an AN20 this week and at least 3 other aircraft in the last week.

4 - Apparently the plane was crossing over the same airspace as President Putins plane was to do so an hour later. As he was returning from a meeting in Brazil. The two planes are similar in their looks and the colourations.
RT and LiveLeaks have stated this, while using Intefax as their base for the news. So this leaves a lot to be answered.

5 - The only people to have claimed to have footage of the plane actually falling out of the sky so far have been CNN. It is a short clip with a single engine on fire as it drops. Which is a little different to the continual blame of it being "blown out of the sky", and "an act of terrorism" from the US and Ukrainian governments respectably.
I have no idea if it is really the plane, and if so then the fact it ends up looking so bad once it is on the floor is a little worrying.

6 - The black box has apparently been collected and the Ukrainian President has been told they are not to go about removing bits and pieces from the crash site without the say so from the investigators. Hopefully a ceasefire can be imposed while the investigators work through the wreckage.
I find it a little worrying that it would need to be said that you do not remove anything from such a wreckage without the okay from those there to check it out.

7 - Both sides are trying to use this for their own advantage.

And this is almost as sad as - and possibly more sickening than - the actual tragedy itself.

Agreed...more devastating news, as if the world needed more tragedy.

Wow this is weird, another Malaysian Airlines fiasco within a year? Something tells me this is more than coincidence! False flag alerts coming to a tv station near all of us soon...

While I'm sure more information will become available as an investigation is conducted, there's currently a fair amount of circumstantial evidence pointing to the Russian/separatist forces having shot down the plane. The plane was flying at just over 30,000 feet, which is out of range of the that the separatists have most frequently been using, and requiring something like a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system]BUK system. Earlier separatist forces reported they had taken control of such a system, but a few hours after MH17 went down they pulled down their social media posts claiming such and started denying they had the capability to shoot down a plane at that altitude. Additionally, an An-26 (Ukrainian military cargo plane) was shot down three days ago while flying at a bit over 20,000 feet (generally outside the range of MANPADs), further supporting that separatists have the capability to shoot down planes at that altitude (or that Russia is willing to do it for them).

There was also tweet released by [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin]Igor Girkin (a separatist leader) shortly after MH17 went down, claiming responsibility for just shooting down an An-26 in the same region that MH17 had just gone down (one current hypothesis is that separatist forces shot down MH17 thinking that it was another Ukrainian An-26). Translated: As a related note, Igor Girkin (aka Igor Strelkov) is former Russian GRU and FSB (reportedly active up until 2013).

Ultimately not conclusive, and it's always possible a false flag operation is in effect, but currently the actions of the separatists/Russians are not showing them in a good light. It also wouldn't be the first time that Russian military forces shot down civilian aircraft (see and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902]KAL-902, although to be fair such events have also occurred with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655]countries as well).