DarrkPhoenix: While I'm sure more information will become available as an investigation is conducted, there's currently a fair amount of circumstantial evidence pointing to the Russian/separatist forces having shot down the plane. The plane was flying at just over 30,000 feet, which is out of range of the that the separatists have most frequently been using, and requiring something like a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system]BUK system. Earlier separatist forces reported they had taken control of such a system, but a few hours after MH17 went down they pulled down their social media posts claiming such and started denying they had the capability to shoot down a plane at that altitude. Additionally, an An-26 (Ukrainian military cargo plane) was shot down three days ago while flying at a bit over 20,000 feet (generally outside the range of MANPADs), further supporting that separatists have the capability to shoot down planes at that altitude (or that Russia is willing to do it for them).

There was also tweet released by [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin]Igor Girkin (a separatist leader) shortly after MH17 went down, claiming responsibility for just shooting down an An-26 in the same region that MH17 had just gone down (one current hypothesis is that separatist forces shot down MH17 thinking that it was another Ukrainian An-26). Translated: DarrkPhoenix: As a related note, Igor Girkin (aka Igor Strelkov) is former Russian GRU and FSB (reportedly active up until 2013).

Ultimately not conclusive, and it's always possible a false flag operation is in effect, but currently the actions of the separatists/Russians are not showing them in a good light. It also wouldn't be the first time that Russian military forces shot down civilian aircraft (see and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902]KAL-902, although to be fair such events have also occurred with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655]countries as well).

ktchong: It's pro-Russian rebels who (accidentally) shot down the plane. Ukraine has released an intercepted phone conversation between the rebels. The news are reporting the intercepted conversation, and it's all over the Internet. The rebels initially thought they had shot down an Ukrainian fighter jet AN-26.

DarrkPhoenix: Has there been confirmation of the authenticity of these recordings? I see that they've been posted on YouTube and Ukrainian officials are claiming the conversation is between Russian operatives, but I haven't seen any other intelligence agencies making statements regarding the recording, nor any reputable news sources making firm claims one way or the other on it.

zeroxxx: Please trigger the World War 3. I need a few countries to be annihilated.

Luned: Even worse, it's Malaysian Airlines again.

truhlik: Since I live in middle Europe hope that we are far from WW3.

blotunga: That's just coincidence.
Well, who knows. Ucraine doesn't want to settle down, Russia is trying to gain the advantage, the Arabs wanting a new Caliphate... the struggle might just be enough to annihilate all of us if we're lucky :P

Tarnicus: I tried to quote your post with 5 important survival tips for food and water and it appears the universe doesn't want me to post it as it vanished :(

blotunga: The universe wants all of us starved to death :D

Tarnicus: That's what I figured, so I didn't repost it. So with that in mind, I'll post my revised edition:

1/ Carry a plastic bag at all times. If you can't figure out how to get water from it, put it on your head and keep breathing until you see the light.

reaver894: IF it was shot down by EITHER side, it will change the political playing field significantly,

zeroxxx: Please trigger the World War 3. I need a few countries to be annihilated.