In Final Fantasy 6, the first character you control (who could be considered the main character) is asexual.

I never get that. No there was nothing triggered. I just find that to make sure that there is as little misunderstanding as possible, I make sure to elaborate my point. If I wanted to be "triggered" I would spend 30 seconds on Tumbler, or Twitter.
As for your opinion, I guess you missed it. I am actually trying to GET why people want so desperately to force a narrative upon things such as television show, comics, games and our children in school.

Your second sentence is where I think we all find common ground. Lets have a good game with a well written storyline. Fleshed out characters and good game mechanics.
After all, we can all happily play little blobs of goo in World of Goo.

I also agree with you that offering the choice of a female character to play in AC Online mode was not that much of a stretch for a company such as Ubisoft. After all they had already had plenty of women in to do motion capture for the female characters. Were they really trying to tell us that they could not bring one of those women in for a bit more motion capture? It was just them being lazy and they were called out from all sides of the gaming community for it.

Once again you attempt to subvert what I have said and twist it to your ideology.
Rather then just accepting that I do not care who is playing games and just wishing that they enjoy themselves. You actually express a wish for me to accept there are people different to myself playing. There are, I accept. Yet I am not going to be "welcoming" each one of them individually. Frankly because as I to reiterate to you - I do not care.
There are also a lot of disabled, old and even computers playing games too. You can go stand at the gates and welcome each one, but I have other things to do with my life.

My spin? I will say I began the entire endevor to openly talk with you and see from your point of view. Yet instead of talking, you again attempt to twist my words.
I never said that people could not play games. I said that people should make the games that they feel are missing from the gaming arena if they want them so badly.

Yes Assassins Creed is property of Ubisoft. Your point?
If you really wanted to make a game like that, or a developer with views like yours wanted to make a game like that then they could. Ubisoft do not own the rights to that genre of games, just the brand Assassins Creed.
You or a company you know could even Kickstart it, if they do not have the up front capital to make the game.
Ubisoft I believe even made a AC game with a female protagonist. So it is not like they never listened.

Just so you can understand it. I have no spin. I have never subverted your questions, twisted your answers or ignored what you have said to reiterate a failed point.
Stop projecting your need of a villain on me.

???
This is what I mean.
I gave you a full and concise answer, which can be cut down to. No, never played the game. Yes it was their choice to make the game they wanted. Those who complained about forced race equality and other crap were being whingebags.
You respond with how the developers are after your heart, and I could join the discussion about features.
I am not a potential convert, I have my own thoughts and ideas. I am not joining in with a bunch of whingebags, hence the lack of Tumbler and Twitter activity.

I will only leave you with;
Once more you ignored my question to go on a rant. Also if Garry Newman is such an equalitarian why was he forcing people to play a way they did not want rather then embracing peoples wants to play as something different?
I guess that simply becomes - Would you like him so much if his game had gone from a choice of male/female black/white to everyone only plays a white male?

I would rather all game protagonists were asexual then more ridiculous mini-game rubbish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ypw30J7Vlg

I have never learned to snippet very well - you do it well, btw, there you have my admiration - so I just reply in segmented way.

I was just being gently ironic, or an ass, if you wish - because I found your post one of ... those.

And what is "one of ...those"?

You do not quite have the honesty or boldness to tell the OP to go and pack it, because you disagree.

So you spin it, and imply that anyone whom does not embrace as their most happily preferred and most immersion rich choice a pre-set single hero format is in fact quite intolerant and anti "great gameplay for gameplay's sake."

But we do know what the pre-set hero is in a vast majority of cases.

I am bit of a hetero-sexist if the game affords it - hey, I only romanced Isabela once I was won over by Male Hawke due to sublime voice acting in DA2 - but this is quite the neutral position, and certainly not disconnected to a strong solidarity towards any of my fellow gamers.

But that is not the point, is it?

It is spinning the OP as slightly irrelevant and telling that LGBT gamers need to suck it up and enjoy it, because there are such great games.

This demands nothing from you at all, because your preference is the norm, save Rust maybe, lol.

And hardly nothing from me either, but I do not like gaming - I love it - and hope all others would and could as much as I.

Oh, u correct me there - it is in my library, and even I insisted until quite far in the campaign, but this game was just too bland in the end, somehow. I would rather replay Two Worlds for hack n slash with a twist and RPG element, and quite delightful humour.

But as quite some have disliked Two Worlds, some might love Heretic Kingdoms - it is about that personal tick.

In my books this was gameplay / gameworld - but phallocracy still possible, eh? ;-)

The OP. I think by now she knows my opinion and hers sit in opposition.
I do not get why you think I would ask her to pack it. I have told her elsewhere on these forums the same thing I have here, and do time and time again. You want it so badly, go and make it. Prove to the big companies that it makes money aka - "put your money where your mouth is". After all, companies want to make more money, so they always follow the cash, you just need to show them it is there.
Yet do not have such audacity to assume that just because you want something, everyone else should want it too.
If she, or you can prove that your opinions for where gaming, and many other areas should go are valid then we will have trans-gendered, asexual pink unicorns calling themselves fluffy bunnies of care everywhere. (Yes, mockery)

You have opinions based by your own claims on the notion of fairness, and I hope like me feel your side is fair. That, or you are a troll.
As I said to you a few post back, I am willing. Waiting in fact, to have an open conversation with someone with opposing views. I want to talk, hear and learn why someone thinks and acts as they do. You appear to want to convert or when that fails you just accuse me of spinning my own answers or avoiding yours.
I do not think I should always have to agree with others and their opinions, but I will make time for them. As I did for you. The problem comes when you begin the circling, diverting and accusing. I have no time for that and will mock and dismiss you as being invalid at that point.

I have never said that pre-set protagonists to white male should be the norm for norms sake. I actually like GTA SA very much as it is probably the most enriched stories they have. I just know that a pre-set protagonist allows the story to be written how the writers wanted. As it is their story, I feel you should have the restraint to let them make the experience they want, how they want. A good story can be made better by having the whole cast pre-set and fulfilling their roles to the maximum.
I never said people had to play games with pre-set protagonists or they were anti-great gameplay for gameplay's sake. I said that people who refuse - that means not playing the game by their own decision - would be missing out on some great games. I will though concede that this was me quite unfairly projecting my opinions on those who cannot accept them. (Yes, again. Mockery)
I have not mocked LGBTQQIAAP. They are real people. Not people I mingle with, but people none the less and if they want to play games good for them. I hope they get as much satisfaction as I do. Maybe they might want to even go on and actually MAKE games. I have no problem with them as you might hope, I just do not see any reason to bother myself with them as they do not affect me either way. (Mockery and my own admission of not caring).

Not playing a game because you cannot choose to be a trans-dwarf to me is stupid. It would be like not watching a Woody Allen film, just because you think he is a pervert and/or do not like his views. People do things like that, and I feel sorry for them.
I use this example because, whilst I detest him as a person, I think he makes very good films. He is a master at critique of both his audience, those about them, his haters and the world in general. A very clever man with many great films under his guidance, and here those people go missing out because they want to feel superior.


Anyway, to close.
As I say (again and again and again), every one can do what they like with their lives. You have a choice and as long as it does not adversely affect ANY one else, I think that people should really go out there and try making it. You want it, go get it.
You on the other hand appear to feel that if you want something it should be made for you. That bashing others who actually took the time is fine, because you feel they did it wrong.
One is self-enrichment, the other self-entitlement.

Thank-you.

"She" u think. Creeeepy...

Thence plus one on OP - and you go pack it, poppet! ;-) Creeeepy and all that... (and less backtalk pray)

And while at it, rest assured - there are probably quite a few of us that are like to OP.

No thanks needed, 011284mm - my views come freely given, lol. :-)

I read your dinge, trying to see the logic - but I do not think I can, unless your argument is zero-sum-game; meaning more for "them" means less for "us."

I do not think it is a zero sum game, that is all - Grand Theft Auto (GTA) exists with Dragon Age (DA), and that is fine.

Meanwhile, even if it were a zero sum game, I think your argument, turned around, would mean that a great game with but LGBT characters should sell preference blind. You know, it would be a great game after all.

On more realistic footing, I would be happy to give it a try, hetero-sexist and all, lol. I do not think that such game would prose greater immersion problem for me perso, as any other not offering my personally preferred character choice.

In view that such game is yet to be, I would even give it greater benefit of a doubt, as I think more choice in gaming is hardly undesirable.

That right there is the issue. We should be moving towards a society where that's a part of a person not the person. Most of the problems we have with it in the US are because the category defines the perception.

The characters should be actual people and in most cases you shouldn't really notice it.

You are aware that zero-sum means that there is nothing lost or gained? 0 + 0 = 0 and 0 - 0 = 0 (!)
The idea of me saying to people "If you want it, make it", is that are the best possible people to make the games. Do you not think.
When I read a book about a specialised subject I would rather read one written by someone interested in the field, then someone just looking to cash in. When I play a game I like to feel that most good games are made by people interested in their field and with what the out come will be. Hence most indie games may be rough, but they are mostly fun and enjoyable.
I know, that if you let people do something they truly want how they want it will be the best it could be. My only restraint is that it should not purposely, negatively affect others.

I will agree with you that a great game with a LGBTQQIAAP character should sell well, and I believe they will and do, just some maybe more niche. People should enjoy games, so do not make people sacrifice good game play, or story telling just to fit a "need", shareholders already push that crap on most AAA companies and look at some of that. Instead people like us should be focusing on games such as The Last of Us. If it ever comes to PC I want to play it. All of my friends rate the game very highly and I hear that the girl is strong, purposeful, set and capable as well as also being gay. So is she not something you could get behind?
The issue is not that it can not be done, but that at the current moment in time most people willing to make such a game are morons who would spoil the chance at greatness to push an agenda. That would render the game shallow, void of fun and just like those '90's games based on a cereal to convince children it was cool. (They sucked). Yet among the giants are some very talented people who can make some great games. So we should all get behind them and champion great games we all want to play.

I will also ask that rather then raining on other peoples parades, people would begin the hard work to make their own.

Also, please stop using LGBT, it is discriminatory. Being from Switzerland I thought you would be more respectful. At least use LGBT+, not everyone falls under your tiny square of influence and they might feel offended by your utter disrespect or worse, indifference to their lives and their plights.
Just in case you think I am mocking you, the correct term refers to- Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Allies, Asexual, Pansexual.
Know how others feel and respect them too before you begin being a passive aggressive. You have no idea how much trauma you might be causing people by neglecting them. They may feel like they need to get help from the UN. (Last one was sarcasm).

I was going to let your last passive aggressive post slide, and let this thread pass away, but you could not.

I would let it go, if I did not think highlighting yer what you are were not ... semi-alight! ;-)

Edit: I only do this to wonder what it was about "letting my last passive aggressive" post aside. It was hardly passive, and hardly aggressive, and all that. ;-)

The problem with adding more letters to the acronym is that it becomes more and more unwieldy. Therefore, it is common for people to just use LGBT.

I have seen the term GSM (gender and sexual minorities) used, which could be a reasonable alternative (provided that the context makes it clear the GSM phone standard isn't being discussed).

My favorite alternate acronym, however, is QUILTBAG. From Wictionary:
An acronym for "Queer/Questioning, Undecided, Intersex, Lesbian, Trans (Transgender/Transsexual), Bisexual, Asexual, Gay", used as an inclusive self-designation for minority sexual and gender identities. Coined by Sadie Lee.[1]
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/QUILTBAG

And what do you care about the letters cum abbreviations if the game is great (011284mm hypotheses, not mine) ?

Pray tell. ;-)

*Scratches head* You are aware that we derailed this thread. It should have died peacefully days ago, but here we still are. Quite impressive I think, we turned this into a wasteland. The original topic dead.

Anyway. It was passive aggressive because you attempted to end this conversation by being the one with the last word.
You were trying to put me down by using normally feminine terms against me, to belittle me, because you feel they are offensive you felt I should do too.
You attempted to tell me to P__s-off, without using the words. Something you had accused me of earlier. You also accused me of being "Creeeepy..." because I called dtgreene a "she". I propped the user for terminology as female in my terminology, rather then calling her a "snowflake", or I guess you would have preferred "zi/xi". You also do not want any more "backtalk" from me.
Did I get it all? Over all, I feel you want to win something. You feel that by battling me, rather then talking rationally with me you will win some great crusade. I guess that your view of me is much more impressive then my own.

No, you have highlighted, proven, achieved, asserted or won nothing.
By your continual circling of how everyone should play the games _you_ feel should be wanted, and that more companies should make the games _you_ feel are wanted by gamers, you gained nothing. There were no how, why or for, reasons, just wants and demands.
You have managed not only to convey no real passing to me as to what would be achieved for people in the LGBTQQIAAP market, nor broader market. You cannot say why people would want such games, and the developers make such games. You have been rather closed to reasons why more of your wanted games are not made at the current time. Instead you prefer to spin what I say in an attempt to make me sound less tolerant then I already am. I do not care if you feel I am not down with the LGBTQQIAAP, I already admitted I do not associate within my close friends with anyone like that. I also said I do not care what they do in their own space as well. I felt that was rather tolerant.

I did and have, attempted to be open and hold a positive conversation with you. Yet you seem rather gripped with the attitude that I must be the enemy because I fail to agree with everything you say.
It strikes me as I may not be quite as intolerant as I first imagined I was.

EDIT:: Took so long to write others responded. I guess TStael, this thread is not as dead as I thought.

I have seen LGBT+ a few times, and is what I use to call people like that. But the little university drop outs (one in particular) I work with, throw fits over me not being "PC". I got told it is LGBTQQIAAP or to shut my mouth. At first I thought he was taking the piss with a tongue-twister, then I was given the leaflets, and shown the website, and had to sit in the lunch room with him playing Youtube videos of people in the background - because he cannot use the headphones - talking about how they felt about .... Yeah.
I do like QUILTBAG better, I can actually say it. I might use that on him tomorrow and see what he thinks. It cannot be worse then his thoughts on me calling "The P. O. C.", "Blacks". I want to call them something else when he is about to really push him over the edge, but I know he would just phone 999 again.