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General discussionMafia GAME THREAD: Smurfia! The smurfiest mafia game ever (#43)(432 posts)solved(432 posts)solved
(432 posts)solved
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 16, 2016
Ah well. I comment on a wrong statement of the newbie, accounting for all possible reasons for the error. drealmer picks that sentence apart, extracts the one part that he can take offense to and then does so. Ignoring the facts that 1) discounting the possibility that gogtrial is scum would be incomplete and 2) I didn't accuse trial of being scum and 3) that I didn't vote trial. Then he goes on to construct a scum team which only consists of members of the scum team from the previous game. Nacho, brasas and me. ... Really?

Now gogtrial is a newbie. He writes some stuff that would sound strange from others, but in his case mostly look like a new player getting his bearings. Of course we cannot discount the possibility that he's scum hiding behind the newbie status, but for today I wouldn't vote for him yet. drealmer, however, does not get the 'newbie bonus' and to quote him: I like my vote where it is.

One thing that sticks out is how he comes to the (not strictly needed) aid for gogtrial and the same possibilities that were said about Nacho apply here too: either drealmer is scum protecting a scum|trial or drealmer is scum fakebuddying to a town|trial to drag the newbie/easy target down with him, should he fall. Sure, for completeness sake it is also possible that drealmer is town and just totally on the wrong track, but he doesn't feel towny to me and I'm totally OK with lynching him.
Posted November 16, 2016
@brasas Seeing your arguments doesn't it make more sense to vote Nacho? The way I see it trial has some reasons for acting the way he did (being new to this, there's scope for benefit of doubt) whereas there is no such thing for Nacho. Also as you've said above there's discrepancies between what he's done before and what he's claiming to have done. (Regarding his scum play style)

Since deadline is approaching quick I'm going to go with Nacho as my top pick, I suspect that either they're scum buddies or Nacho is scum defending townie (flimsily) for credibility for day 2. Either way Nacho seems to be a better place to rest my vote.

Vote Nachomamma8
Posted November 16, 2016
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Nachomamma8: Drealmer voted no lynch. Drealmer did not make the argument anywhere that no lynch was the play of the day. Drealmer always votes no lynch. Why did you vote him initially?
Sorry. Just noticed that I had missed this question: initially I voted drealmer because his post was the only one sticking out. The alternative would have been a pure RVS vote. Voting drealmer was better than voting random, because he provided a hook. Something to argue about and something to apply at least a bit of pressure to see how he would react. I am a fervent opponent of no-lynch on Day 1. drealmer knows that. So I think town-drealmers response would have been 'You're reacting in your usual way and calling out no-lynch as bad. Good.' (we had a somewhat similar situation in the past). This time, however, drealmer reacted with (paraphrased): "OMG! You reacted in your usual way! You must be scum!" and I think this is exactly what scum-drealmer would do. Throw out his stupid hook and latch on onto the first one who reacts to it, without caring who that is. (Just as long as the one who reacts to it is town - which a scum-drealmer would know).
Posted November 16, 2016
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Brasas: But Wyrm, you of all people should understand - you saw the Hijack slip outing JMich in the Resistance game.
If I did see that slip, then I don't remember it. I remember the bad guys getting mathematically screwed by a double failure at a bad time.

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Brasas: Team game remember? Because of this I reread trial's post, which I already replied to earlier. Check this out:

Gaah! I did not realize the implications of what it meant, in that I assumed scum was allowed to talk beforehand, but completely overlooked the possibility that town would ... have actions.

Gaah! I did not realize the implications of what it meant, in that I assumed scum was allowed to talk beforehand, but completely overlooked the possibility that town would also have actions.

It's not a data point. It's a slip.
How is that a slip? He knows scum have an "action" (night chat), so the 'also' is legit.

I see a peculiar mix of canny and naive from Trial. I need to crunch death count numbers to see whether I'm willing to kill him today (if we have virtually no room for error, then I'm open to a newbie D1 lynch).

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drealmer7: It's "if someone is REALLY going to react to ME voting for no-lynch during RVS, I feel like they're more likely to be scum trying to make an issue, because, it's ME."
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Nachomamma8: This is a fine line of attack; when I initially read this all I saw was the bait line and it looked absolutely atrocious as a result.
Meh. It is useless as a line of attack. Drealmer KNOWS people around here don't like D1 No Lynch. He's been voted for it (repeatedly) in previous games. Calling this some sort of bait is foolish because he's just going to catch the same group of people that he'd always be able to catch with it.

Pre-post edit: Between the two, I think Lift has the stronger case (167 and 169).

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Nachomamma8: Bookwyrm, what's gone downhill about my play since then? If you're referring to short posts, those are mobile work posts; during the day I follow the game during bathroom breaks and 15 minute breaks and don't have time to do anything but pick up easy questions or pick at small things that stand out to me.
I'm not concerned with short posts, if they say things (credit: you have been saying things). It is the tone behind the posts that makes me wonder, and what things you say. There is aggression, and I'm not sure it is always backed up well.

I'll dig through your posts again later to try and identify more specific things.

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Nachomamma8: I won't lynch Wyrm today despite not explicitly townreading him.
That's curious. Not that I'm complaining, but why not?

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Nachomamma8: short story is I don't think JMich has done anything that remotely looks like anything
FTFY. Also, not a surprise. If you want anything from JMich, you're going to have to work for it.

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Brasas: Nah Nacho, this "too little mercy" crap does not fly very far - for me at least. I was your scum buddy, I rem you saying in scum chat that you don't usually bus and would try it for a change. Which played into my consideration of your motives jumping into the ring for gogtrial. And yet here you are giving the impression it's your long loved meta.
Hm. This bears double checking. I'd written off Nacho's self-admission-meta as unverifiable, but a positive claim can be checked since it is sourced.
Posted November 16, 2016
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Brasas: Nah Nacho, this "too little mercy" crap does not fly very far - for me at least. I was your scum buddy, I rem you saying in scum chat that you don't usually bus and would try it for a change. Which played into my consideration of your motives jumping into the ring for gogtrial. And yet here you are giving the impression it's your long loved meta.
Provide a post number please; you should be better able to find it, having a better idea of what you are looking for.
Nevermind, I found it. It was in post 45, under the TammyTown commentary,

"One of the bigger reasons why I've been pushing a more bus-centric playstyle this game is because it hasn't really been something that I've employed a lot lately, and it has a good chance to be highly effective in a meta where people are unfamiliar with my play in general."

Nacho, I invite you to respond.
Post edited November 16, 2016 by Bookwyrm627
Posted November 16, 2016
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Bookwyrm627: Meh. It is useless as a line of attack. Drealmer KNOWS people around here don't like D1 No Lynch. He's been voted for it (repeatedly) in previous games. Calling this some sort of bait is foolish because he's just going to catch the same group of people that he'd always be able to catch with it.
My theory is that I shouldn't be catching anything at this point with that vote, especially that early (maybe a little further out of RVS time I'd be a little more "with" what he's saying now, but it was clear silly meaninglessness - NO one should have been thinking I'm wanting no lynch from that vote and so it's just fabricated BS.) Anyone making an issue of it is trying to make an issue out of nothing. It's that simple. Convolute, twist, look at squinty, it still remains that I was trying to bait for something like that and I got it. That he persisted and still persists with it tells me everything I need to know. He's squirming on the hook, caught. Now he says "ohhh but it's how you reacted to me taking the bait!" No. If he were town he would have dropped it. Making this an issue is a distraction and scum tactic trying to get me killed, AGAIN. That's why I did what I did, that's why lift is scum.

catching up more

oh, that's all there is, weird, the scrolly thing on the side looked like it had more than that
Post edited November 16, 2016 by drealmer7
Posted November 16, 2016
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drealmer7: My theory is that I shouldn't be catching anything at this point with that vote...
You did something predictable (vote No Lynch).
He did something predictable (voted someone who voted No Lynch).
You scum read him for his vote.
He scum read you for your vote.
etc etc etc

My fluffy pillow has more substance than this.
Posted November 16, 2016
Quick note:
Assume we lose 2 townies per D/N cycle (1 lynch, 1 NK). Town will lose after the N3 NK.

I plan to give the Trial the newbie pass for D1, even though he's been observing for a few games now. His D1 behavior may still count against (or for) him later.
Posted November 16, 2016
To respond to the scum QT comment: I've bussed less recently since people expect me to bus in general. I bussed in the last game here to throw Tammy off. Bussing is still my usual play style.
And this is verifiable via Mafiascum meta, via Westeros meta, etc. I'll link some games if people are actually interested.

Aggression is typically fueled by excitement, or, in this case, frustration with the game state. I also recall a push that I headed off particularly aggressively from drealmer, but that was pushing for a reaction.

I love that "deeper, you're barely tickling my ass" is a statement that's been said this game.
Post edited November 16, 2016 by Nachomamma8
Posted November 16, 2016
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drealmer7: My theory is that I shouldn't be catching anything at this point with that vote...
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Bookwyrm627: You did something predictable (vote No Lynch).
He did something predictable (voted someone who voted No Lynch).
You scum read him for his vote.
He scum read you for your vote.
etc etc etc

My fluffy pillow has more substance than this.
your little pings, they add up

you either are intentionally misrepping me to make it AGAIN an issue or you misunderstood...or I guess you mis-typed?

I don't scumread him for his vote on me, but because it is still on me and the reasons it is still on me are EMPTY as I see it. All he needs is a couple people to go "hmmm, maybe he is right and this time drealmer IS scum doing this!" to get the momentum going. Ugh. I wish I would draw scum one of these times (fucking hell already) so IIII knew what the hell I'd do if I were scum! I'm trying to imagine so I can tell....and amusement is what comes to mind. I'd probably be so excited to be scum I'd not contain myself and say so right off the bat and hope I could then wiggle myself out of a scum-claim. I DON'T KNOW!!!

I DO NOT think I'd vote no lynch, just for the riskiness of it drawing attention and being in unfamiliar waters as scum. Here as town, I'm comfortable with the navigating around the no-lynch BS.

WIFOMWIFOM of course, but, yeeesh, it's annoying getting repeatedly scum-read in like, every game. You guys are trying to break my spirit! It won't happen!
Posted November 16, 2016
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drealmer7: I don't scumread him for his vote on me, but because it is still on me and the reasons it is still on me are EMPTY as I see it.
Then you should vote yourself. Since your vote is also still on me. Based on something empty.

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drealmer7: I DO NOT think I'd vote no lynch, just for the riskiness of it drawing attention and being in unfamiliar waters as scum.
I think you would, just to keep the continuity. And I think you did, just to be able to say: 'Hey, but I always do this so I must be town!'

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drealmer7: WIFOMWIFOM of course, but, yeeesh, it's annoying getting repeatedly scum-read in like, every game.
You know, that might be a hint that you are doing something wrong. If you are getting scum read every game, you should perhaps stop acting scummy. IF you are really town consider this: no-lynch on Day 1 is a bad idea. Voting for something that's bad for town is bad (duh). And on Day 1, with as little to go on that we have, you will get negative attention with that. Which you surely intended. So far, so good.
But now, how you reacted to that negative attention, is different from what I would expect from a town-drealmer. You take a justified (as far as Day 1 goes) vote and try to twist it to a scum-read. And then you mis-represent it. No, your didn't vote me because my vote stayed on you, as you claim. You voted me as soon as I had placed my vote on you, OMGUS style.

Am I sure that you are scum? No. You might just be making a bad play, accidentally appearing even scummier than usual. But of all the players here you give me the scummiest vibes. Day 1 is always a big risk of mis-lynch. But in your case I see that risk as lower than on any other player.
Posted November 16, 2016
I wasn't considering no-lynch today

at all

never was

you are creating something out of nothing

you are scum

this shit should have been a tiny tiny blip, the reason that it is not has nothing to do with me being scummy and everything to do with lift keeping it going because he's got nothing else and the more you mash it around the bigger it becomes

dropping it now - if you think I'm scum, you're silly, seriously

you're tunneled

if you're town, you need to step back and re-assess

if you're scum you've got the weakest case and if I get lynched from it, I'ma be mad that ppl are falling for it

(you were one of the ppl leading the JMich lynch-mob when he changed his meta, because you simply couldn't look at it in the circumstance it was in, you just apply broad general views [major meta shift = scum] and never try to see if it's appropriate for the situation or not)
Post edited November 16, 2016 by drealmer7
Posted November 16, 2016
The Flub PMed me to say he'll look for a smurf avatar anyway so it's all good 25 hours to deadline vote count:

Drealmer (3): Trent, Wyrm, Lift
Lift (1): Drealmer
Trial (1): Brasas
JMich (1): Nacho
Nacho (1): Hunter

Not voting (3): 2Mich, Trial, Darko

Maj = 6, Drealmer closest to being smurfed into the Smurfmatic Smurfmotabulator at S-3.

Deadline is Thursday 11/17 at 11:45 AM (pacific).

Let me know if your vote is not where you want it.



Mod-note: I'll be offline for the next 5 or so hours.
Posted November 16, 2016
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drealmer7: if you're town, you need to step back and re-assess
1) We're a less than a day before the deadline, do you think there's a more viable lynch than yours?
2) Is it true that you and Lift have been in the same situation before (with your no-lynch vote)?
3) I would love to see your thoughts on every player (even just a few words on everyone-no walls please) as soon as you get the time

I don't feel particularly strongly about you, but you are setting off more alarms than others and we could get something useful from your flip. The only other people I'd happily vote for right now are Hunter and JMich, but if they flipped town we'd still have nothing.
Posted November 16, 2016
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DarkoD13: 3) I would love to see your thoughts on every player (even just a few words on everyone-no walls please) as soon as you get the time
Same for you, if you please.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionMafia GAME THREAD: Smurfia! The smurfiest mafia game ever (#43)(432 posts)solved(432 posts)solved
(432 posts)solved