I see bler has posted about his reason for voting trentonlf, I will get to it in the morning as right now it is not making sense to me.

I’ve been reviewing dedo’s posts. I didn’t recognize any bread crumbing of his role. I would guess the arsonist hitting the fireman was actually lucky. Perhaps the arsonist thought dedo was scum, but fireman scum, unlikely (unless I missed something).
I don’t think you said anything that hasn’t already been mentioned, but I understand the caution.

I’m tempted to lean JMich town, but that in itself seems dangerous. ;-)
It is interesting that both you and RWarehall find JMich town.

How does it feel to be a zombie?

My vote is based mostly on trent’s reaction and a couple of slips since being questioned about the hammer, I would not vote for him based just on the hammer.

Just an FYI, it has been mentioned twice from what I saw that I could be an arsonist. I am not an arsonist, an arsonist would hurt town and that would not sit well with me.

So I decided to test a theory and not post for 24 hours or so to see if anyone continued questioning me about my position on a last minute claim. It's received a little bit of attention, but nothing like before so it's seems to me I reacted too strong to people questioning me on not allowing Bookwyrm to claim. I saw nothing wrong, and still don't , with hammering Bookwyrm when I did. I'll give my last post on the matter as it is more a distraction than anything now.

I would like to point out that my vote had nothing to do with preventing any claim from Bookwyrm, my vote was because I still felt Bookwyrm was potentially scum. I even apologized after the vote to JMich who asked for everyone to wait on the hammer so Bookwyrm could claim. As I said 75-80 percent of my post are done from my phone and I don't refresh on my phone as it tends to lose my posts if I do, so I did not see his request until after I had voted. If I had seen his request I really would have waited.

The only reason my vote was still not on Bookwyrm at that time anyway was because I found JMich's vote on Bookwyrm an extremely scummy play because his vote was not because he thought Bookwyrm was scum but to prove Yogs wrong. Most people were not interested in pursuing JMich for his vote and Bookwyrm was going to be lynched so I switched my vote back to who was my number 2 scum choice.

That's it nothing more to the vote than that. As I said any more discussion on this is more of a distraction than anything so let's just move on.

@Bler this: "Assume Trent is scum - how does he answer the question on Day 2 of "Hey, why was ____ killed and not that guy?" The hammer is his answer. It looks just scummy enough to put him at least in the discussion for guilty."

Are you saying I asked that question? I never asked that question. I asked if someone killed dedo and if they did why because I didn't see him as scum and I wanted to know what I missed. I postulated that he also could have killed himself by accident.

It could have been cleaner, but how much is that you just don't like parsing things? It's a present rewrite of what I wrote Sat. with some running narrative commentary added in - that last is probably what makes it unwieldy. I probably would have been better just posting what I wrote Saturday and adding commentary after, but I tried to condense and analyze with fewer words thinking no one would read a 2 page post. Apparently that backfired.

That said, I'm hesitant to do a TLDR, since the argument is that it's a clever gambit on trent's part to add just the right amount of FoS on him, after playing a perfectly clean Day 1 to that point. The hammer becomes a gambit not entirely different from what Wyrm did, in embracing some FoS, but hoping for just the right amount and not too much.

Boiled/dumbed down:
1) Read trent's day 1 up to the final hour - his play is incredibly clean. Makes 3 votes, and other than a bit of umbrage, all are very defensible. No FoS on him that can't be written off as OMGUS.
2) If he's scum he knows he won't be NKed, but looks around and realizes he's the most logical target for who would be - he played round 1 too cleanly. He's a threat and he looks unlynchable. Hammering solves that problem since now there's an easy explanation for why he might look just a little more suspicious than say, Cristi, but not too much so.
3) The explanation for the quick hammer is that after lingering for days, the wagon suddenly lurches forward and he needs to make sure he's on it. Not planned, just an instinct move.

Presumably that's enough steering for you to work through the broader theory. Or decide you just don't care enough.

There is a lot of what other people think in your post. Who do you find scummy and why?

Can you explain why this is interesting?

@Flub - What are you thoughts so far?

@RW - What are your thoughts so far?

and last but not least

@CSPVG - What are your thoughts so far?

I am asking these three because I feel since we came back they have been the quietest and I would like to hear from them.


Some of my thoughts so far:

Trent - I will not be voting you today. Unless something happens to change my thoughts on you. Right now I have you in my neutral list. Yes I am not keen on the quickness of the hammer but everything else from you is what I would expect.

cristigale - I can not in good graces call you scum on dedos glowing review of your posting and me not seeing it at that time. However, I do not trust you. I do not like the fact when we came back you seemed to care a bit to much about how the mafia member died and not the town member. I do feel you maybe scum however, I do not have any hard evidence on that. I am going to watching you and each and every one of your posts.

Jmich - I have you as the most town player right now. The one thing that bothers me is the back and forths with different players. Some of them seem a bit over drawn out but this could just be me over analyzing a back and forth between two players.

yogs- I have you in the town side as well but no where near as firm as Jmich - Yes you were wrong. Everyone can not be right all the time. However, all of your posts are very town trying to find scum. You look at many different a angles and possibilities.

RW- I do not trust you either. I feel like we have not heard much from you at all today with the exception of your plan for yesterday and your vote on bler. Would like to hear more from you and what you feel about the other players.

agent - You do a lot of going over what others say and also posting your thoughts and ideas. You do have a lot of oops forgot to post or the forum ate it. That makes a bit leery of you still and your first post when we came back from night is eery to me. So it hard to place you. You have some very good town aspect but yet some scummy aspect too.

CSPVG - I have you leaning more town right now but I feel you have almost dissapeared since we came back from the night with the exception of your vote on Leonard for being the unknown so far. We need more of your wall of text posts similar to day one.

Flub - Where are you? 8 posts since coming back. It is hard to get a read off some one who is not posting and talking.

Leonard - There is not much in the line of your actual thoughts so far in the game. Your posts remind of someone trying to be seen but not heard. ((im not sure I have that right)) But similar to hey im here so dont lynch me but I really don't want to point the finger at anyone or cause a issue on my own. Ill just hang back. I would really like to see more post and your thoughts on everyone.

It was purely a hypothetical with a bit of a time warp. I'm not saying it was a conversation you had, it was a suggestion that deciding to hammer was in part based on imagining this future line of questioning and wanting to eliminate the possibility of being asked.

That said, assuming anyone read everything I wrote and actually understood it, presumably it came across that I'm less certain my own hat should keep hanging where it is. Still, I don't see a really viable alternative yet. As Sage notes, that's in no small part because of the number of people who just seem to be lurking or otherwise chipping in not much.

I'm much more comfortable with Yog coming after me (even if I disagree with both his points), than CSP and others being so quiet. I'm not ready to jump to Leonard, but it did cross my mind, at least to spur him to do something. And yog is right that the post above by Leon doesn't do much more than dance around the fringe.

I'd been leery of Sage's lurking a bit as well, though her post just above I find a good contribution overall - I mean, I have some sense those people are quiet, but hadn't bothered to count flub's posts. (And I didn't fact-check her claim, just assuming she bothered to count) Though I find it interesting she didn't have anything to say about me. I mean, in a situation where I have 2 votes, it's more likely anything she did say might hurt more than it helped, so I should be grateful, perhaps. ;)

So do I think it is it more likely "Leonard or CSP or flub" than Trent? Yes. But I don't really have a sense of which. That said, if we're still in this holding pattern come Friday night I'd probably take my vote off you at least while I was off-line and traveling.

When I copied my post over from word I missed the bottom line so I had some Gizmo playtime while I waited =)

Vote cristigale

Do you happen to have the post #/link handy that you refer to where she focuses on dedo over kryp?

W00t Thank you for posting I can go to sleep:

Grumble-- I knew I missed someone. I am sorry Bler I am exhausted and it is 12:30am here. You are going to have to wait until morning for my read on you.

My reference is about dedo saying his thoughts on cristigales posts.

I explained it in this post here. It is because up to that point I felt cristigal had not contributed or really posted much at all.

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/mafia_28_everyday_life_in_grand_oak_gallows/post810

I do not know how to quote myself.

As for flub I can tell you that his last post was "I don't have a clue about "property owner." posted 2 days ago. Could be RL, scum lurking, or a townie who does not know what to say. If I was to guess I would say RL as flub always has something to say town or scum and he is usually one of the more active players town or scum.

Once again thank you trent for posting

@Bler - I was wrong that was my first thought something was up. This link explains all of her posts up until that point.

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/mafia_28_everyday_life_in_grand_oak_gallows/post815

I aim to please.

Thanks for posting the stuff. I'll read through it sometime tonight.

For the sake of math, that means in the first 276 posts, the mean posting rate would be 19.7. 10 is definitely low (half of average), though I'd bet a nickle she wasn't the lowest.

You'd probably also want to consider that a few of us (I'm going to guess wyrm and myself were high on the offender list) probably posted well above average and skewed the mean, and a lot of what was in that first 100 or so posts in particular is probably not very useful. So 10 may not be that far off the median.

As case in point, I responded to CSP's first post with a very, very serious response to something that, had I known how people play in these forums, I should have known was BS and either ignored or trolled.

I do think you're right that it's interesting dedo praises her for those 10 posts, but I'm not fully convinced it points to him covering for her as fellow scum. Maybe he was just trying to curry favor with someone he presumed was a townie or a threat? Those who weren't taking notes (ahem) made a lot of early decisions just on vague remembrances. So maybe he really thought she'd said something profound. IDK.

So what’s different between this game and the last one? You were new (right?) in the last game and didn’t seem to have a problem contributing. I think were seeing more posting in this game, filler doesn't seem significantly higher.
It does make me wonder if you’re struggling as scum (or third party) to post as yogs suggested.

The timing of your post while gone was a bit ironic, but I have no reason to doubt you.




Random thought, perhaps Property Owner is a flavor way of saying Vanilla Town.