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General discussionMafia #28 Everyday life in Grand Oak Gallows(1566 posts)(1566 posts)
(1566 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 15, 2015
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cristigale: Well that’s easy, I’m not scum (or other third party) this game. :-)

Now I know that means nothing. But I also see a difference. While it was fun being scum the first few Days of the last game, it got harder and harder as the Days progressed. I take a long time to read, process, and reply to posts. Being scum made it 2-3X’s as hard. It would literally take me hours to compose a post last game. While my last wall of text did take a long time, it would have taken forever last game. I scrutinized everything over and over before posting. I won’t purposefully make a sloppy post now, if something doesn’t sound right I’ll try to fix it. But I’m not worried about making a mistake.

Another difference is I’m on break for the rest of the month and can actually watch the game in progress and respond in real time on some days. Not every day, like today I had a funeral. Trent and I would never have had that back in forth in the last game. Last game, some days, I had a 2-3 hour window to catch up and post. I don’t intentionally lurk. I don’t sit behind my computer all day, either. After a couple of posts, I’m using done for a while. I do often leave my laptop logged on all day.

I missed out on some of the fun in the first game being uncertain about how to play. Last game was fun but hard. I was actually relieved to draw town this game. I’m much more relaxed and enjoying it.

I know this could all be a ruse. You have made a couple comments about my play between the two games and I thought it was time to respond. Take it for what it’s worth, which is not much as you only have my word for it.
Hehehe, I'm probably following my own WIFOM right now, but this is what I expected from you. I won't be certain you're town until the game's over (obviously), but it would take a pretty big slip to convince me otherwise. If you are scum, well, give yourself a pat on the back, 'cause you've got me fooled.

I've got the exact same problem as you with regards to posting. I've usually got one 10-15 minute window during the morning and a 1-2 hour window each evening. That's all. And then yogsloth starts calling me out for promising something by morning and not having it posted by noon. (I forgive you man :)

Glad to hear that you'll have more time. Hope you can get in some of those insightful analyses, maybe even more regularly than me, lol.
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cristigale: Well that’s easy, I’m not scum (or other third party) this game. :-)

Now I know that means nothing. But I also see a difference. While it was fun being scum the first few Days of the last game, it got harder and harder as the Days progressed. I take a long time to read, process, and reply to posts. Being scum made it 2-3X’s as hard. It would literally take me hours to compose a post last game. While my last wall of text did take a long time, it would have taken forever last game. I scrutinized everything over and over before posting. I won’t purposefully make a sloppy post now, if something doesn’t sound right I’ll try to fix it. But I’m not worried about making a mistake.

Another difference is I’m on break for the rest of the month and can actually watch the game in progress and respond in real time on some days. Not every day, like today I had a funeral. Trent and I would never have had that back in forth in the last game. Last game, some days, I had a 2-3 hour window to catch up and post. I don’t intentionally lurk. I don’t sit behind my computer all day, either. After a couple of posts, I’m using done for a while. I do often leave my laptop logged on all day.

I missed out on some of the fun in the first game being uncertain about how to play. Last game was fun but hard. I was actually relieved to draw town this game. I’m much more relaxed and enjoying it.

I know this could all be a ruse. You have made a couple comments about my play between the two games and I thought it was time to respond. Take it for what it’s worth, which is not much as you only have my word for it.
Hehehe, I'm probably drinking my own WIFOM, but this is what I would have expected from you. I won't be sure you're town until the game's over (obviously), but it would take a pretty big slip to convince me otherwise. If you are town then, well, give yourself a pat on the back, 'cause you've got me fooled.

I've got the exact same problem as you with regards to posting. I've got a 10-15 minute window in the RL morning, and a 1-2 hour window in the RL evening. Other than that, I've got no time. And then yogsloth starts calling me out for promising an analysis during my morning window, and not having it posted by noon (I forgive you man :).


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CSPVG: Would anyone be interested in sharing more of their PM flavour?
I've been thinking about this, and I don't think it could hurt... much... so I'll bite...

I arrived in town recently, on a business deal, and I stayed because I liked the town. It's not the big city, but it's mostly nice people.
Post edited July 15, 2015 by agentcarr16
Posted July 15, 2015
I humbly beg forgiveness, Oh Great Moderator in the Cybersky.

My double post wouldn't show up, even though I refreshed two or three times. It didn't appear until I changed the number of posts per page. And yes, I did have to rewrite the second one because the first one disappeared. That's why they're different.

I think that I'm going to stop doubting that the forum has found it. Usually if I wait long enough (like fifteen minutes) my posts will eventually show up.
Posted July 15, 2015
*face palm*
Posted July 15, 2015
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trentonlf: I went back over every post or RWarehall's and I'm sorry Krypsyn I just don't see it still.
Just because a guy comes back from the dead, it doesn't mean he knows everything... but I can[ remember who I had dinner with... (>.>) (<.<)
Posted July 15, 2015
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Leonard03: *face palm*
Well we know now who the third faction is: Gogbear.

He may end up winning.
Posted July 15, 2015
First off, the zombie mention was just a joke. I had no information at all that people could come back from the dead. And that being past tense, I still have no information in that regard besides Krypsen's talking to us. It was categorically not a breadcrumb.

As to Krypsen, I just honestly thought I had a read on him. I've seen scum Krypsen and town Krypsen. It's the handful of instances where he responded to what was going on in the game. He chirped up a few times to correct some issues where people were starting off on the wrong track. I would expect a scum to let those players continue to be misguided, but he posted a response rather than just another You Tube video.

If you really want "my plan" for day 1, here goes....
I thought Bookwyrrn was creating more of a distraction than helping. Yet, the idea was good to the extent that getting people to talk provides foundation for later days. We need people to discuss things they think they see. It helps two ways, it puts people on record and its more eyes watching. Now, I know this is in contrast to what some other people believe, that no useful information comes from Day 1, but I disagree. So yes, I threw out some observations and thoughts in the hope it would spur more of the same. I do think we ended up with a fair bit of worthwhile discussion.

Now granted, these observations were not necessarily telling, so I did my best not to try to over-emphasize their importance. So much so that someone called it limp wristed or some such. Think it was Yog? My goal was by throwing out my thoughts, others might throw theirs out and I might see something I missed. To be honest, I didn't have much concrete at all, but those were honest observations. I thought Bookwyrm's post was very possibly a slip as everyone else, but what I was really looking for were signs of scum trying to not so subtly push our discussion in certain directions. Day 1 they might not need to, but in case they did, I was trying to spot it. And I found one which seemed like it really could be that.

I thought Sage might have been trying to push a wagon without getting on board. I'm still a little suspicious of Sage as I thought she did a lot of "blending-in" and not voting. Only joining Bookwyrm's wagon after being one of the last left not voting and getting called on it. Today, the regurgitating of posts is helpful, but again seemingly without much analysis.

I also thought Bler pushing Krypsen to three votes so quick might have been trying too hard to form a wagon as well. The fact it came so early in the game though, made it less significant to me. I'm beginning to wonder if it meant more given day 2 though, so I consider my vote well placed.

Trenton's quick hammering does seem scummy, but so far that is all I have on him. What bothered me the most is that its also possible, given the game start delay, that someone somewhere might have had a Day 0 action. And hammering so quick prevented that. But is this one thing enough for this many votes? Besides the quick hammer, are there any other reasons people are so strong on him?

There have been others mentioned as well since the day started, I really need to catch up.

The only person I mostly trust is JMich. Unless I'm to believe he bread-crumbed "arsonist" as the arsonist, I'm finding it hard to see any other scenarios where it makes sense he could be scum. Outside of him, I can see reasons why anyone else (besides the zombie) are scum candidates to some degree or another.
Posted July 15, 2015
@RWarehall
Interesting, since most of my analysis and actual useful commentary was done in the You-Tube videos. The minor things I would comment on directly, because they weren't a big deal. The major things I would allude to by using metaphors and such, because it was easier to describe the depth and connotation of what I was going for rather that mere words. Sadly, few people seemed to get it, or at least few admitted to it. So boring.

In other words, the corrections I made to people when they were off on the "wrong track" are the same things I would correct as scum to look more town (ain't WIFOM a bitch?). They are safe and simple regardless of alignment, since they were things that most people would pick up on anyway, at least from my point of view. I don't just let town do anything, even as scum, because I like to be in the middle of things, shaking thins up, regardless of alignment.

In other other words, I don't buy the reasons you give for reading me a certain way.
Posted July 15, 2015
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RWarehall: I also thought Bler pushing Krypsen to three votes so quick might have been trying too hard to form a wagon as well. The fact it came so early in the game though, made it less significant to me. I'm beginning to wonder if it meant more given day 2 though, so I consider my vote well placed.

Trenton's quick hammering does seem scummy, but so far that is all I have on him. What bothered me the most is that its also possible, given the game start delay, that someone somewhere might have had a Day 0 action. And hammering so quick prevented that. But is this one thing enough for this many votes? Besides the quick hammer, are there any other reasons people are so strong on him?
Minor correction which I'll assume was accidental, but I was the 2nd vote on Kryp at #23, and Wyrm was the 3rd vote at #27. And obviously we know how that turned out for Wyrm.

I've been working on a longer post, but I'll go ahead and put up this minor point assuming it's going to take me a while to finish the rest of it.
Posted July 15, 2015
Oh, knew I forgot something:

Unvote: RWarehall
Vote: cristigale

Reasons? Probably.
Secret? No.
Mentionable? Eh... seems like effort.
Posted July 15, 2015
Oh yeah, and in lieu of You-Tube clips, I'll just tell a little story. I remember around nearly 30 years ago, I was playing the first of SSI Gold Box games, The Pool of Radiance. I made a party, and since the game let me, I just maxed out all their attributes to 18s. This actually made the game harder, unbeknownst to me, because of how the game judged encounter difficulties. I like systems like those, which don't directly disallow certain actions, but do take certain obvious player actions into account.

Anyway, I was quite annoyed when I found out my female fighter could only have 18/50 STR, yet the male went to 18/00. I really wanted a male and a female, and I didn't want one to be gimped (I maxed out all their stats for a reason, dangit!). D&D rules were so goofy with that back then... bleh. Well, anyway... it bothered me so much, that is when I learned how to hex edit files. Presto! My fighter girl, after a bit of trial and error, had 18/00 STR. I was then happy... at least until Curse of the Azure Bonds came around and added new classes, and I ended up remaking the entire party except two characters anyway.

Are ya pickin' up what I am puttin' down? If not, I am not spelling it out.
Posted July 15, 2015
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Krypsyn: In other other words, I don't buy the reasons you give for reading me a certain way.
Interesting, since I watched a couple of your YouTube videos, thought you were mostly just being silly, and quit watching the rest. You did a poor job of bringing your point across. Too many videos, people actually playing the game were going to start ignoring them. And, frankly, major points always fall a bit into LAMIST anyway. Its the minor side points that made me feel it wasn't all just an act. You didn't need to help explain to people why they appeared a little scummy to others, but you did anyway

You were the only person I really thought I might have a read on. But you think you have a read on me, and I expect I'll be eventually vig shot by you and you'll be proven wrong. It's the way it is.

@Bler Ok, 2nd vote, my bad. I just remembered you were on the list Day 1 in part for vote wagoning early among other things. If it makes you feel better, my vote, while I feel its well-placed is very preliminary.
Posted July 15, 2015
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RWarehall: Interesting, since I watched a couple of your YouTube videos, thought you were mostly just being silly, and quit watching the rest.
It's okay, not everyone is equipped for nonlinear thinking. Most lead fairly rewarding, if boring lives. :)

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RWarehall: You did a poor job of bringing your point across.
Or people did a poor job of checking their assumptions. It is okay, assumptions make life a little less thought intensive, which can be tiring.

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RWarehall: Too many videos, people actually playing the game were going to start ignoring them.
You presume that there is a single correct way to play the game? How are your thoughts going trapped inside that box?

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RWarehall: I expect I'll be eventually vig shot by you and you'll be proven wrong.
You should probably just commit seppuku now and get it over with. Far more efficient for everyone, really.
Posted July 15, 2015
@Kryp – I enjoyed the videos, but I confess I only watched about half and probably only really understood what your point was in half of those half. But I liked it.

I still am somewhat amazed that I pinged Trent with an "I'll explain later, but trust me, it's good!" vote and it's blossomed to four without anyone really holding me to the fire for what my explanation is. I swear it's better than any case that's been made so far (it's deep, man), but it's not without some holes or counter-explanations either. And I felt more passionately about it when I thought D2 was a do-or-die vote for town, which at least for now it appears it's not. So I'm willing to be less fervid.

But now I don't want to wholly unpack it because I'm neither ready for the wagon to move forward but nor do I want it to fall apart, at least yet. Still it keys in part on the notion that the quick hammer wasn't to stop Wyrm from claiming, and it certainly wasn't to stop him from airing his opinion, because heaven knows Wyrm had been pretty comfortable laying all his theories out on the table already, many of which were clearly wrong, and some will likely turn out to be right. That's the benefit of positing lots and lots of theories.

But maybe there's another strategic reason someone would want to catch that wagon before it left the station even if that meant jumping on in haste. However, I do increasingly think it's possible Trent really did just hammer without having any motivation beyond "eff it, wyrm was already my 2nd option, let’s move this show along!"

Instead of just blowing off the resulting questions or being tight-lipped the noose has tightened in part because he did put up a fight, which seems to strike people as guilty, fair or no, rather than just saying “sorry.” That said Wyrm was not belligerent, and that certainly didn't work out for him, so the bigger point is probably that trent will end up being in trouble unless some other viable alternative comes through.

I do also think it's somewhat exculpatory, as I mentioned before, that both Trent and dedo comprised 2 of the 3 votes on the JMich wagon. If we assume they're both scum, and we assume scum at least know each other’s names, why both leave a record of piling onto JMich that early? Why not just NK JMich? Seems easier, and without leaving such obvious tracks, no?

To be continued, unless I do the smart thing and just go to bed.
Posted July 15, 2015
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bler144: @Kryp – I enjoyed the videos, but I confess I only watched about half and probably only really understood what your point was in half of those half. But I liked it.
Well, at lest someone did :). I was a little depressed that people kept berating me for my useless posts, even after I told them they were missing something (several times, with the Peanut "Over The Head" clip). It just really never seemed to occur to people that I was actually trying to make points. It was still a fun experiment for Day 1, even if it didn't have quite the impact I had hoped it would. Oh well. :P
Posted July 15, 2015
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Krypsyn: I was a little depressed that people kept berating me for my useless posts, even after I told them they were missing something (several times, with the Peanut "Over The Head" clip). It just really never seemed to occur to people that I was actually trying to make points.
Seeing that there was a method to your madness was what eventually led me to think you were probably town. If anything, maybe you should have stuck to that cover longer. In regard to the vig 'take the shot?' question you could have linked a clip like this. Nice and ambiguous.

Anyway, now I'm really going to bed. Other half of the post will have to wait until tomorrow. I assume everyone's sick of reading my long posts anyway, so you can all breathe a sigh of relief.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionMafia #28 Everyday life in Grand Oak Gallows(1566 posts)(1566 posts)
(1566 posts)