I'd started feeling a bit bad for you, but now you just seem determined to punch your way out of the corner.

More opinions don't necessarily "determine" anything, but they put more information on the table at least some of which might have utility. Which is the point of all this yammering, no?

I never said not to ask opinions of others, you have to talk or no information gets shared. Only way for town to win is to talk and share info. What I said was you have to decide if what I did was scummy or not. It does not matter what others opinions are when it comes down to it. If you base all your decisions on what others say or think then why are you playing the game?

Perhaps I'm hoping there's something to be gleaned in what their responses say about them, and it was never about you at all. Perhaps Cristi raised an interesting question and I'd just like to see how it plays.

Or perhaps you're right and I'm a weak player with no opinions of my own.

I think the key to analyzing dedo is going to be the arsonist exchange.

It is now quite clear that JMich was breadcrumbing here:

And he confirms it here:

And so yes, the key point is that the firefighter was Mafia, not Town.

The whole arsonist thing went totally beneath my notice Day 1 (it just seemed like one of those Day 1 “let’s argue about word choice because we have nothing else to argue about” things), but of course dedo picked up on it and he’s the one who expressed the concern about it. He then voted for JMich, ostensibly because of JMich’s flimsy reasoning on voting for Wyrm purely in order to blame me and set me up. That made me give dedo big points yesterday, and if he had survived, I have no doubt I would be following him in building a lynch wagon for JMich without a second thought, if he re-started one.

So how does JMich know there’s an arsonist in the game, and why is the firefighter Mafia?

Either JMich is the arsonist, or he has some Town-aligned role. I reject the notion that Scum team has two arsonist-related roles. What would they be? Two firefighters? The arsonist itself really couldn’t be Scum, because then Scum team would have two night-killing roles, and that’s just too overpowered, especially in a game with only fourteen players. As much as I would love to be all over JMich and vote him until the ends of time, looking at the way dedo was on him – and promising to stay on him – I just don’t think he could be Scum as well.

If JMich is a neutral arsonist (i.e., serial killer), what benefit would there be to outing himself? That would be suicidal play. Hopefully he lets us in on his secret, but I’m guessing he’s going to claim Town Firefighter. dedo, knowing there is an arsonist in the game, would of course have picked up on JMich’s breadcrumb, which in turn was no doubt why he breadcrumbed it. Drop the term and see who reacts to it, which would allow the arsonist to know exactly whom to kill. Wait.

I just stopped to read this over. I don’t know what the hell I’m doing. Frig it, I’m going to bed.

The only person getting Town points from me today is Sage for even trying to organize data. Everyone else is just barfing up random votes and arguing about cat hair.

I told you I was perhaps just incompetent town... :) /deathpost

Edit (because, being dead has to have some advantages):
Just as well, because this comes out tomorrow... :P

Thank you. This is the logic based reasoning I like to see, instead of the gut reasoning. It is enough for me to unvote yogsloth, at least until someone gives a decent argument as to how you are now attempting to distance yourself from dedo, though I don't see something like that at.

So, time to check the previous games, since I was under the impression that claiming at L-1 (or L-2 with fewer players) was quite common.

ARRRRRGH FORUM KEEPS EATING MY POSTS, WHAT THE HECK?



I would count this as actively participating after being killed, since you've just now confirmed that you breadcrumbed the word "incompetent", meaning you were aware from the start of your modifier and its meaning, which we can now use to eliminate certain possibilities as to what your role meant.

Thanks bro.

New page. You are replying to post 800, and your posts are 801, 801 again, and 803. They are in a new page.

Oh my god, somebody shoot me.

No, the first two didn't show up on the new page. I even refreshed the forum as a whole to confirm it. There was no 17th page after either of my first two.

I'm really going to bed now. Under my desk. At 1 PM. Goodnight.

I never said you were a weak player, you are not as far as I can tell. I overlooked the possibility of evaluating others responses to my actions as it seemed you were going the same way as cristi and saying it would determine whether or not if my actions were scummy based on what "more experienced" players said. If that was what you are saying that is a weak play in itself.

That is why I voted Cristi, she is too smart a player for that. Her action was saying "if other people say he is right I need a way to back out of this" so she defers to the other players to see what the majority opinion is and goes with it. Scummy and weak, and Cristi is not a weak player at all. If I had to choose a scum team to dominate a game I would pick Cristi and Hypersomniaclive every time as my first two. And I mean if I was picking a team before the game started, not saying I think they are scum every time.

What, no video?

I'm disappointed. Here's one for you hoping you come back to life tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA

That had crossed my mind. While in general more information is pro-town, certain theories are not. Which is one reason I haven't put all my cards against Trent on the table - if I put everything on the table and am wrong, it's a doubly-bad play. Though possibly one I would have rushed into in Day 1 without thinking about the rest of the chessboard.

But let's assume your JMich/dedo theory is right since it's already on the table and visible to scum. One, why doesn't dedo realize he's being breadcrumbed by JMich and shield himself? perhaps his role bars him from guarding himself? Or it's possible JMich could have that info, or at least reasonably guess at it, in some other fashion. E.g. if JMich were scum, and one assumes scum have an active channel during the day, JMich would know dedo's role and they'd hoped to tease out some third person as the counter who wisely stayed hidden.

Perhaps the gambit was that dedo guarded JMich as the more obvious target, and the arsonist just read through it, to the town's advantage. Though if that's so, why does dedo bite on the breadcrumb at all rather than stay hidden? Because he was afraid the arsonist might have missed it? Perhaps JMich didn't really 'know' at all and figured that he may as well take a shot in the dark that unbalanced roles might include an arsonist over more standard roles and it just played out wonderfully. Mysteries within mysteries.

The vig is dead, remember?

Method 1 is when I link to a post like this and then keep writing.

Method 2 is when I link to a post like this Post 748 and then keep writing.

I prefer the appearance of Method 2.

Wait... You don't like me jumping off a wagon near the end? If you go looking, I actually removed my vote the day before the hammering, in Post 704 . I only put up my reasons the post after trentonlf hammered. I really don't understand your reasoning.

You mean the analyses that, this morning, I said I would be posting? Yeah... I have a job that gives me basically no down time during the day, so I have mornings before nine and evenings. I'll be posting the analysis when I get time, and it's not an analysis of the wagon, but of a few other players that I've scrutinized.

Cristigale while I find you a exceptionally good player one things that stuck out to me was Dedos backing of you when he did his list.

- - cristigale is bringing in good content so far, I really like her posts and her thoughts. Leaning Town.

Up until that point in the game I had found you to be almost invisible with not much posting to go on.

As I was not sure on dedo and also found him to be laying back more then I remember him playing in other games (his mafia game included) He was not around enough to get a good feel on one way or another.

Now I do find pause in trents hammer and I think he needs to be watched up until the hammer he was very much leaning town and I would like more time to see what he does right now. The above also does not make Cristigal scum just because Dedo say something in your posts that I was not seeing at all. I however, do feel there is something different to you in this game and I am going to keep my eyes on you right now. I also want to go back and see at your posts and what they contained before Dedos notes on everyone.

From my going through Dedos posts I also noticed that he has a lot of posts to and about Bler. I also want to go back and look over these more. I want to see if this is scum going after scum or was there legitimate reason for the posts about Bler.

Why does CSPVG vote on you screw the game?


I think there is a lot to learn from the whole hot, heat, fire elements going on. I also feel that they maybe more on the side of good then evil. Maybe our town has a secret that we would like to keep playing with.