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neumi5694: DRM is and always has been online since the term exists, it was used for music before it was used for games and it was always connected to a online verification.
Be aware that also some GOG games come with CD keys, since the game just works this way, can only be started after such a key has been added. But the veryfication is not online. They are still considered to be DRM free.
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Cavalary: Pardon?
Manual lookup is DRM, keys are DRM, disk checks are DRM, those technologies Gudadantza listed are DRM. DRM existed before the Internet, so no way it "always has been online since the term exists".
As for those GOG games, which have indeed existed since GOG launched, the keys are only for multiplayer, which was why GOG had its no DRM stance just for singleplayer.
manual,disk checks and keys are not drm.
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Cavalary: Pardon?
Manual lookup is DRM, keys are DRM, disk checks are DRM, those technologies Gudadantza listed are DRM. DRM existed before the Internet, so no way it "always has been online since the term exists".
As for those GOG games, which have indeed existed since GOG launched, the keys are only for multiplayer, which was why GOG had its no DRM stance just for singleplayer.
No, it's not. That's physical copy protection. The term "digital rights management" was not used back then.
The term DRM was introduced in the mid 90s, when digital audio media became a thing (in your link 1996 is named) and we both know that the internet went commercial 1990, but existed way before that. Also we had copy protection long before that. That was not DRM, that was copy protection. One could only copy and use the software, if he had the manual or code wheel or whatever. No licence management was involved. The game was a tangible product sold as such, not just as licence to play it.

But ... I admit: I forgot the sort of unlock key that was used for shareware and was sent via physical mail or telephone.
Still that key was no good for any kind of rights management, since you could still share it with others and not have any problems to use it multiple times. That could only be prevented once online verifications were in place.

Anyway, it has already been stated that these games and vendors will be listed on the front page, so you either live with it or don't. It won't make a difference.
Post edited February 09, 2022 by neumi5694
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neumi5694: The term DRM was introduced in the mid 90s, when digital audio media became a thing (in your link 1996 is named) and we both know that the internet went commercial 1990, but existed way before that. Also we had copy protection long before that. That was not DRM, that was copy protection. One could only copy and use the software, if he had the manual or code wheel or whatever. No licence management was involved. The game was a tangible product sold as such, not just as licence to play it.
Why did shareware then advertise buying the license for the full version?

In any case, it is clear that this topic is getting off-track. While the title may seem misleading, I think it is possible through "warnings/disclaimers" etc to separate out this stuff within the posts, and then a user can make informed decisions for themselves as to what is acceptable. Similar to another topic that points out issues with various GOG games such as Securom remnants in F.E.A.R., where people will debate what exactly that means or doesn't mean in terms of being active DRM.
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rjbuffchix: Why did shareware then advertise buying the license for the full version?

In any case, it is clear that this topic is getting off-track. While the title may seem misleading, I think it is possible through "warnings/disclaimers" etc to separate out this stuff within the posts, and then a user can make informed decisions for themselves as to what is acceptable. Similar to another topic that points out issues with various GOG games such as Securom remnants in F.E.A.R., where people will debate what exactly that means or doesn't mean in terms of being active DRM.
Yes, that's why I edited my post. It was indeed used to certify that someone bought a licence, that's right. But as I I already said, it was no good for rights management. You (as dev or rights holder) could not revoke a licence or anything, it just unlocked part of the game if the buyer or anyone of all the people he shared the code with used it.

I totally agree on the last paragraph, we should just stop now.
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Cavalary: Pardon?
Manual lookup is DRM, keys are DRM, disk checks are DRM, those technologies Gudadantza listed are DRM. DRM existed before the Internet, so no way it "always has been online since the term exists".
As for those GOG games, which have indeed existed since GOG launched, the keys are only for multiplayer, which was why GOG had its no DRM stance just for singleplayer.
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neumi5694: No, it's not. That's physical copy protection. The term "digital rights management" was not used back then.
The term DRM was introduced in the mid 90s, when digital audio media became a thing (in your link 1996 is named) and we both know that the internet went commercial 1990, but existed way before that. Also we had copy protection long before that. That was not DRM, that was copy protection. One could only copy and use the software, if he had the manual or code wheel or whatever. No licence management was involved. The game was a tangible product sold as such, not just as licence to play it.

But ... I admit: I forgot the sort of unlock key that was used for shareware and was sent via physical mail or telephone.
Still that key was no good for any kind of rights management, since you could still share it with others and not have any problems to use it multiple times. That could only be prevented once online verifications were in place.

Anyway, it has already been stated that these games and vendors will be listed on the front page, so you either live with it or don't. It won't make a difference.
Strictly DRM or not in the modern definition of the term it was a way to protect their rights based in a license, because, yes, inside the CD there was a digital program and you had a license over the products and info about what you could do with it. It was a way to evade piracy as the modern DRM systems are. Just to define one of its labors.

Also one of the origins of GOG, in general, was to maintain their installers free of this systems, don't you think? And I am sure they considered/defined it as a wide label, DRM.

If it is not DRM it is very close, strictly legal definitions aside.

I am referring to the practice way of things, but well, whatever. If the real definition is another, ok, you have the point.

Greetings
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This thread is trash. Seriously. Just a thread about collecting differ stores most of them not needed. And wrong promising title. Stores that die in short(\or long maybe, not big differences) time
Reading topic title i guess that list be with completely DRM-free stores like GOG. Where it is claimed as DRM-free store, and not random DRM-free games from any places.

I really hope to find just alternatives to GOG and nothing more. I found here ZOOM about 1.5 years ago. itchio is compeltely DRM-free or not? They sell keys and rar-archives. Do they always have rar-download?

Or GOG and ZOOM is only one places for DRM-fre things? Steam and any clients is still DRM. I dont want any messing depot-files and subscriptions from always broken Steam and publishers (GTA4 EFLC and old SIN removed from me entirely, classic Quake is not so really classic distrib client, but updated-reverted), origin and etc. Just normal all-in-one installer. Offline installer. It can optionally have in-game launcher (if can be skippable). But not any else. Especially not Steam. I want place where platform do supervise publishers release, share work with them. Like GOG and ZOOM.

So, there is something more? Desura half-alive (or dead again, 10 time again)? Main reason thinking GOG is better than ZOOM is normal (khm) forum, while ZOOM discussions and support is on discord. m not completely sure what store - which installers - i like more. let it be 50/50%.
Any else exactly 1in1 like GOG and ZOOM? For itchio with rar-archive - who build them? Anyway itchio is trahs place for smartphones initially, with rip-off\copyrighted violated titles and free non-really-game (literraly anthing can be sold there) trash - worse than Steam.
Post edited February 10, 2022 by QWEEDDYZ
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QWEEDDYZ:
Fireflower Games is also entirely DRM free. It is a small store with a niche focus though.

itch.io is DRM agnostic. They'll publish whatever the developer wants to upload. Quick search result. See the admin's comment there, saying there are even ways to use their app or force login as DRM, but as that moderator said "you won't make many friends around here that way".

[Getting back on topic, so I'll just respectfully disagree and drop the other discussion.]
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QWEEDDYZ: Reading topic title i guess that list be with completely DRM-free stores like GOG. Where it is claimed as DRM-free store, and not random DRM-free games from any places.
Many good old GOG customers (including me) no longer think GOG is a pure DRM-free store.
And that was why I started maintaining this thread.
It is damn easy to exclude any kinds of copy-protection in this thread, but the result won't be very useful.

DRM on GOG: list of single-player games with DRM
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/page1

DRM-free multiplayer: list of games that actually are 100% DRM-free
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drmfree_multiplayer_list_of_games_that_actually_are_100_drmfree/page1

GOG not DRM Free Anymore
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_not_drm_free_anymore/page1

And there are many other threads posted by angry old customers that think GOG have betrayed us.
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I dont care for lamers who angry (especially linux ones who call DRM just for custom build of InnoSetup). I ask for pure DRM-free stores. GOG is still DRM-free completely for me. Multiplayer is multiplayer. Optional online functions is optional online functions.

All i need is store with offline exe installers with offline games.
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QWEEDDYZ: Reading topic title i guess that list be with completely DRM-free stores like GOG. Where it is claimed as DRM-free store, and not random DRM-free games from any places.
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kbnrylaec: Many good old GOG customers (including me) no longer think GOG is a pure DRM-free store.
And that was why I started maintaining this thread.
It is damn easy to exclude any kinds of copy-protection in this thread, but the result won't be very useful.

DRM on GOG: list of single-player games with DRM
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/page1

DRM-free multiplayer: list of games that actually are 100% DRM-free
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drmfree_multiplayer_list_of_games_that_actually_are_100_drmfree/page1

GOG not DRM Free Anymore
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_not_drm_free_anymore/page1

And there are many other threads posted by angry old customers that think GOG have betrayed us.
Then you have to make a reason for the multiplayer part. The devs are not going to invest time and money to create a purely drm free multiplayer for gog or other drm free stores.

It wouldn't be profitable. The goal of the company is to make money even when going out on gog. If he releases a game on gog to lose money it's not worth it for them and therefore nothing will be released. So in real life some sacrifice must be accepted because if we stay in full drm free solo + multi perspective. Frankly, there will be almost no games left on gog. But you have to be reasonable about it. multi online yes but the solo must remain full offline and especially drm free for the latter.
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.Ra: manual,disk checks and keys are not drm.
The way I see it, they are, but if there's no way for those methods to be revoked (e.g. backing up manuals, having an ISO of the disc to mount in the PC and keys working without checking a 3rd party service), they might be salvageable as long as they're still accessible somehow. Still, it feels like a slippery slope situation and would depend on where each user draws the line.

Still, there are some cases that I think that would be pretty easy to avoid including in a thread like the one we're in now, such as (a bit unrelated example but I couldn't think of anything closer to the subject) Gumroad giving the option for content creators to slap the buyer's credentials in the PDF files the creator sells, as if they're calling the buyer a potential pirate without any shame or hesitation in their words.
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If devs dont do something they should, at least this is not GOG fault. I mean. Someone call Galaxy multiplayer DRM too. Blame GOG for this. Im serious. For bringing back online functions in dead multiplayer games. Cause some devs be lazy to make old LAN still accessible.

This is wrong. Right things is give us Dedicated servers (not sure if possible with Galaxy... i think still should be, it can use same GOG dll's as client version) and completely offline LAN function.
But this is still not a DRM, and GOG still pure DRM-free store. At least we have offline functions guaranteed to be working offline, with offline installer that not re-downloaded some Depots.

There is a lot of literally lamers. Looks like come from consoles, but... Steam and etc stores make it same (although dont do anything for this). Most people really thing that platform do something to make PC-Win\PC-Mac (and even on Linux!) games one-click working. So for ANY games with multiplayer, such people called servers as GOG servers and for every disadvantages blame GOG. Look to Blizzard games. A lot of people still think that it is GOG who operate Classic Battle.net - just because this games come to GOG store. But GOG is just distributor. No one owes to us to make games working on every OS, and make every old online functions available.
Look to Hitman. It got Denuvo DRM removing update, make account optional update, but still with some Steam DRM. GOG release make it completely DRM-free. With still optional account. Maybe Bethesda not make promised Quake release just cause of that? They put skippable launcher - and many ones still call it DRM. maybe GOG dont want it release and bethesda do they job long ago. Too much whining - and here is consequences: removed Hitman from store with most part of the offline game been DRM-free.

Someone really call GOG as a DRM store discussed this on torrent-tracker-forum. With you know what be shared there. Completely offline and playable. Asking for even more functions for free from GOG (and not from devs).
Then i go here on English GOG forum and saw same discussion things. Hmmm... (Well, digital distribution\+steam revolution do they job - even on warez forums there is a lot of ppl who buy a lot of games to support devs\platform. So it is normal that not a big differences between this and warez forums, same ppl here is normal, i just half-trolling here)
Half-trolling but still cant get it... Why admin from Old games sub-forum, not matter which forum, blame GOG for something. GOG a bit lamo and lazy sometimes. Do un-set admin run and set for EVERY installers not needed disable fullcreen optimisation (that work very differ between OS\OS-builds) and etc. Sell not proper DosBox\ScummVM releases, make WinVista completely unsupported while Win7 half-supported (not for long i guess, even for future offline installers). Custom innosetup with only GOG supported languages (+PT-BR not so supported now).

A lot of minor troubles here. Alternatives and search for alternatives is right. But do not be same lamo as linux users crying "DRM!!111" for anything not related to DRM things. Please.

This thread is really needed. But immediately become trash any store-sites collection (and someone suggest warez sites here as well). Better keep it to exe\rar (and only DRM-free exe\rar) provided stores. Ofc i can start half of the Steam games offline! I know that! But titles can be sold between publishers, old and new one never can handle SteamCDR\SteamAPI properly - and they can by mistake or by purpose remove some depots or entire game from me.
Valve be same (always be, never have real devs team except temporar HL\HL2\steam teams). And Valve now completely dont care what anyone do in Steam. They just grab money. And randomly ban devs to not payed them.

Any else store? A little bit better maybe. I dont know what platform holders do to release and updates for EGS. EA Origin and else. GOG and ZOOM staff share work with publishers to make releases here and for updates. Additional testing after publishers. At least some supervising. And GOG known to be polite with customers in case if devs do wrong things to already purchased games. looks same for ZOOM, they looks same old-games enthusiasts as GOG staff (at first?). Such khm... old (:( )... people never thinks that player customer do not have any rights and EULA>gamers (any EULAs and especially for distribution platform is not applicable at all, but it not what i what to say).
It still applicable to GOG.

So im half-trolling and triggered someone? Im be triggered first. By some words that are not needed or absolutely wrong (from first post here, and from some else threads).
Post edited February 11, 2022 by QWEEDDYZ
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Cavalary: Pardon?
Manual lookup is DRM, keys are DRM, disk checks are DRM, those technologies Gudadantza listed are DRM. DRM existed before the Internet, so no way it "always has been online since the term exists".
As for those GOG games, which have indeed existed since GOG launched, the keys are only for multiplayer, which was why GOG had its no DRM stance just for singleplayer.
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.Ra: manual,disk checks and keys are not drm.
Here. How i should call him else than "lamo"? Troll? DRM is technical term. There is thins that are DRM and things not a DRM. Manual prompting is DRM of course.

This is related but not directly answer which one stores are DRM-free. Maybe he mean this? Because it possible to happen old-game DOS release with still manual promting thing and instruction what should be promted. There is theoretically cases when we can agree that DRM is on but acceptable level. But do not call absolutely not a DRM things as DRM. Especially for offline content in offline SP game (with or without MP parts). We can sometimes close eyes on some DRM happens (for compeltely online game released on GOG and be available separate offline SP game version). Not imagine new DRM.

ofc some identifying needed for multiplayer and for Galaxy-service GOG Galaxy client used to authentification. Online services compeltely differ thing to offline-DRM (or online DRM on offline game).
Although it possible with absolutely no identify. But i think it better if we have also working official service. Easy to make-find games and less cheaters.
Post edited February 11, 2022 by QWEEDDYZ
Bump this thread because I know some of you need it.
I will be closing this thread as it breaks our Forum Code of Conduct and counts as advertising. You can read the full statement here.