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silviucc: Yeah, apparently it's not exactly native... I'm still curious and will probably get it to compare vs. CrossOver. *Sigh*
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hedwards: I don't see a problem with that, the game was written for other platforms, so shy of rewriting large sections of code, I'm not sure what else would permit the game to run on Linux.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with using Wine or Crossover as the ultimate speed and reliability is the same as running it native. Provided of course that the API supports the necessary calls and that the game isn't receiving untested patches.
Well, I would actually have preferred they had gone to Codeweavers with this project, since wine + CSMT is a very good combo from my testing when compared to VP's work. Glitches and other things could have been worked out with a customized build of wine, which is what Codeweavers usually do anyway.

The fact that they did not seem to even have a restricted beta is also something that came to bite them in the arse... There's a good reason why developers have started doing that more and more.
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hedwards: I don't see a problem with that, the game was written for other platforms, so shy of rewriting large sections of code, I'm not sure what else would permit the game to run on Linux.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with using Wine or Crossover as the ultimate speed and reliability is the same as running it native. Provided of course that the API supports the necessary calls and that the game isn't receiving untested patches.
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silviucc: Well, I would actually have preferred they had gone to Codeweavers with this project, since wine + CSMT is a very good combo from my testing when compared to VP's work. Glitches and other things could have been worked out with a customized build of wine, which is what Codeweavers usually do anyway.

The fact that they did not seem to even have a restricted beta is also something that came to bite them in the arse... There's a good reason why developers have started doing that more and more.
Gotcha.

I own a copy of Crossover because they do give back to Wine, but yeah, I think the absence of some sort of beta is likely to result in the appropriate optimizations not being made. I also know that Codeweavers does offer to port things to Linux, presumably using their software.
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silviucc: Well, I would actually have preferred they had gone to Codeweavers with this project, since wine + CSMT is a very good combo from my testing when compared to VP's work. Glitches and other things could have been worked out with a customized build of wine, which is what Codeweavers usually do anyway.

The fact that they did not seem to even have a restricted beta is also something that came to bite them in the arse... There's a good reason why developers have started doing that more and more.
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hedwards: Gotcha.

I own a copy of Crossover because they do give back to Wine, but yeah, I think the absence of some sort of beta is likely to result in the appropriate optimizations not being made. I also know that Codeweavers does offer to port things to Linux, presumably using their software.
That's the great thing about Codeweavers. They make their money producing and supporting custom Wine builds, so the patches they write end up getting rolled back into mainline Wine where it's easier to maintain them for use in future contracts.
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shmerl: GOG is also weak on remote work. Most of their offers state this:

The hired individual will need to work in-house, in our studio based in Warsaw, Poland.
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shmerl: I think they should be more flexible with this.
Would you work for Polish sallary in US? Would you work during Polish working hours in US?
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hedwards: Gotcha.

I own a copy of Crossover because they do give back to Wine, but yeah, I think the absence of some sort of beta is likely to result in the appropriate optimizations not being made. I also know that Codeweavers does offer to port things to Linux, presumably using their software.
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ssokolow: That's the great thing about Codeweavers. They make their money producing and supporting custom Wine builds, so the patches they write end up getting rolled back into mainline Wine where it's easier to maintain them for use in future contracts.
They don't really advertise it, but apparently if you install Wine, Crossover will use the Wine install for the Crossover bottles. So, you get the Crossover niceties in terms of separate bottles along with whatever changes the latest Wine brings.
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shmerl: GOG is also weak on remote work. Most of their offers state this:

I think they should be more flexible with this.
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Petrell: Would you work for Polish sallary in US? Would you work during Polish working hours in US?
The salary would be an issue. The hours may or may not be an issue for people. Personally, I wouldn't mind the hours, but the pay would be likely be way below the minimum wage here. And the minimum wage here barely covers the cost of rent, let alone food and other niceties.
Post edited May 25, 2014 by hedwards
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hedwards: .
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Petrell: Would you work for Polish sallary in US? Would you work during Polish working hours in US?
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hedwards: The salary would be an issue. The hours may or may not be an issue for people. Personally, I wouldn't mind the hours, but the pay would be likely be way below the minimum wage here. And the minimum wage here barely covers the cost of rent, let alone food and other niceties.
Polland timezone is UTC +1 and US timezone is between UTC -5 to UTC -8 (depending if you you live east or west coast) so it would be night work for most part. So how many US Linux experts would be willing to work remotely for GOG at night on sallary that probably is not enough to live on in US? ;-)
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Petrell: Would you work for Polish sallary in US? Would you work during Polish working hours in US?
I know quite a few distributed companies which have people working from all over (including one from Finland by the way). They don't complain about salaries there.

Remote work happens in normal time for those who work remotely. Synchronizing big distributed teams can be tricky, but it's doable. I.e. not all should work at the same time. There can be meetings / teleconferences of course which require synchronization, but a lot of work can happen independently.
Post edited May 25, 2014 by shmerl
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Petrell: Would you work for Polish sallary in US? Would you work during Polish working hours in US?
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shmerl: I know quite a few distributed companies which have people working from all over (including one from Finland by the way). They don't complain about salaries there.
Salaries in Finland and in Poland are far from being the same ;)

According to Wikipedia, average monthly salary is around $1,300 in Poland (2010) and $3,400 in Finland (2012).
($4,000 in USA)
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Petrell: Would you work for Polish sallary in US? Would you work during Polish working hours in US?
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shmerl: I know quite a few distributed companies which have people working from all over (including one from Finland by the way). They don't complain about salaries there.

Remote work happens in normal time for those who work remotely. Synchronizing big distributed teams can be tricky, but it's doable. I.e. not all should work at the same time. There can be meetings / teleconferences of course which require synchronization, but a lot of work can happen independently.
Obviously and I did not deny it does not happen but it's hardly common practice. Heck, remote work is rare even within countries (well, at least in Finland) execpt when it's on commission/on demand kind of mork that where the pay is usually shitty, at least in IT field. I only know one field where remote work is sort of common practice and that's telemarketing, worst paying job and most hated work in the world.
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vv221: Salaries in Finland and in Poland are far from being the same ;)
IT / programming salaries are good even in Eastern Europe and on average aren't lower than in other countries (for good engineers of course). At least from what I've heard. So comparison of average salaries isn't really useful here.

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Petrell: Heck, remote work is rare even within countries (well, at least in Finland) execpt when it's on commission/on demand kind of mork that where the pay is usually shitty, at least in IT field.
Take a look at Jolla.
Post edited May 26, 2014 by shmerl
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shmerl: IT / programming salaries are good even in Eastern Europe and on average aren't lower than in other countries (for good engineers of course). At least from what I've heard. So comparison of average salaries isn't really useful here.
It's news for me.
And it's good news, thank you!
Recently, GOL's Liam saw the light and recommends now WINE and other pragmatic approaches instead of "native" porting (after defending the opposite pretty long) as way to go for linux gaming.

Maybe motivated by the continous reports on broken OpenGL, porting problems and stagnating linux user shares.

Time to remember on the reasonable GOG wish for the support of WINE as platform (or even ReactOS).
Post edited June 01, 2014 by shaddim
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shaddim: Recently, GOL's Liam saw the light and recommends now WINE and other pragmatic approaches instead of "native" porting (after defending the opposite pretty long) as way to go for linux gaming.

Maybe motivated by the continous reports on broken OpenGL, porting problems and stagnating linux user shares.

Time to remember on the reasonable GOG wish for the support of WINE as platform (or even ReactOS).
On the surface it looks like an about face in 3 days, but really it seems more like one post could have been called "We shouldn't accept bad quality" and the other "Who cares how we get good quality." Both of which are kind of obvious things to say and don't necessarily war with one another.

He might have initially blamed Wine style porting for low quality, but changed his mind as to its potential(without any examples, just optimism), but what he isn't doing is recommending it as a strategy. He is taking a more agnostic viewpoint as to not caring how something ends up on Linux, and being more willing to hope that compatibility layers and emulation can provide satisfactory results.

Personally I think Wine is really fascinating, useful tech that makes a lot of practical sense when talking about wanting to bring over past and existing content. While I don't particularly like it as a long term solution, saying it works as back porting solution, is pretty safe. The bigger debate is how much of a role does it play in future porting vs back porting. Should developers lean on Wine tech when something like the UT4 engine is available for native deployments on all popular targets?
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shaddim: Recently, GOL's Liam saw the light and recommends now WINE and other pragmatic approaches instead of "native" porting
I don't see him recommending WIne instead of native porting. He simply says that there is nothing wrong with Wine (especially for games which have no chance of getting a native port). I fully agree. There is nothing "instead" in there.
Major Trine Update Should Be Released In The Next Few Months. This is how it's done, CD Projekt RED.