It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
kohlrak: What games on itch have DRM?
On top of my head, all the games that are exclusively "play in browser" without downloadable files.
Also, I can't remember the name, but I do recall having seen a game on Itchio once that would use the Itch launcher as a drm the same way Steam's launcher is required to launch some games.
avatar
kohlrak: What games on itch have DRM?
While some do, as has been explained, my apologies for confusing you on that point. That was meant to really refer to Humble and others, not Itch.io, whom I have thousands of DRM-Free games from.

The point about Itch.io, is that they don't really compare to GOG with content. While they have some good quality games that you could describe as somewhat mainstream, they mostly have Indie games, and the huge majority of those are pretty basic and or crappy, and wouldn't get any sales if they were DRM.

Don't get me wrong, when not overwhelmed by Itch.io, I quite like them, and they have many games that have turned up at GOG. Just you aren't going to find too many mainstream games in common, from providers like Bethesda and many others.

That means you really can't compare GOG with Itch.io, where in any case Itch provide Indie Games and GOG provide DRM-Free Games (some of which are also Indie) ... the fact that most of the Indie Games at Itch are DRM-Free is kind of incidental.
Post edited February 25, 2021 by Timboli
avatar
kohlrak: What games on itch have DRM?
avatar
_Auster_: On top of my head, all the games that are exclusively "play in browser" without downloadable files.
Also, I can't remember the name, but I do recall having seen a game on Itchio once that would use the Itch launcher as a drm the same way Steam's launcher is required to launch some games.
itch has a launcher? As for the browser games, do they actually use a CGI back-end or is it a matter of being too lazy to comb for the JS?
avatar
kohlrak: What games on itch have DRM?
avatar
Timboli: While some do, as has been explained, my apologies for confusing you on that point. That was meant to really refer to Humble and others, not Itch.io, whom I have thousands of DRM-Free games from.

The point about Itch.io, is that they don't really compare to GOG with content. While they have some good quality games that you could describe as somewhat mainstream, they mostly have Indie games, and the huge majority of those are pretty basic and or crappy, and wouldn't get any sales if they were DRM.

Don't get me wrong, when not overwhelmed by Itch.io, I quite like them, and they have many games that have turned up at GOG. Just you aren't going to find too many mainstream games in common, from providers like Bethesda and many others.

That means you really can't compare GOG with Itch.io, where in any case Itch provide Indie Games and GOG provide DRM-Free Games (some of which are also Indie) ... the fact that most of the Indie Games at Itch are DRM-Free is kind of incidental.
I think ti's reasonable, though, to point out that the reason things like beth games aren't on itch is partly the problem: we're creating and establishing a sort of "alt-big tech" which is likely to ultimately simply become "big tech," which is the concern. There is reasonable argumentation that there is a bit of DRM on gog already, through galaxy required features, even for things that are single-player exclusive. The concern is that we're building another steam, by having a central "establishment." We have to ask if things like beth games here make GOG an alternative, or just another side of the same coin, given that there are steam and epic exclusives, too, that GOG doesn't have. Stating the exclusives, while certainly important, just doesn't seem relevant. Humble has huniecam which i assume GOG rejected. I'm sure if i looked hard enough, i could find some DRM-free exclusives, perhaps even some higher ranking ones, that GOG was unable to get. Does that mean Humble is the true DRM-Free alternative, since GOG has DRM as does Humble, and Humble has DRM-free exclusives?
Post edited February 25, 2021 by kohlrak
Yes, itch.io has a launcher, you can use to find new stuff, and manage installed games. But I don't know any game that you can't just start from the folder/exe file. I would be curious to know what that one game that had to be launched with the itch software was.
Steam and Itch.io are both flooded with rubbish, but on Steam you can get almost all games (leaving out EPIC exclusives) while the top stuff on Itch is probably Devolver/Plug In Digital level of importance - the good quality, hand picked indie titles.
I see GOG is in the middle, a good place for both old AAA and quality indie - I don't care for newly released AAA titles much.
For the browser games, maybe one could save the page off line and make it work with some tempering, I have never tried.
Post edited February 25, 2021 by Dogmaus
avatar
kohlrak: I think ti's reasonable, though, to point out that the reason things like beth games aren't on itch is partly the problem: we're creating and establishing a sort of "alt-big tech" which is likely to ultimately simply become "big tech," which is the concern. There is reasonable argumentation that there is a bit of DRM on gog already, through galaxy required features, even for things that are single-player exclusive. The concern is that we're building another steam, by having a central "establishment." We have to ask if things like beth games here make GOG an alternative, or just another side of the same coin, given that there are steam and epic exclusives, too, that GOG doesn't have. Stating the exclusives, while certainly important, just doesn't seem relevant. Humble has huniecam which i assume GOG rejected. I'm sure if i looked hard enough, i could find some DRM-free exclusives, perhaps even some higher ranking ones, that GOG was unable to get. Does that mean Humble is the true DRM-Free alternative, since GOG has DRM as does Humble, and Humble has DRM-free exclusives?
I don't think it reasonable at all, as Bethesda etc were already around, and Itch started as a place for Indie games, and has just grown since then, to become something a bit more than its simple beginnings. And Bethesda are just one among many AAA providers.

What I said about Itch is about Itch, and not to be confused with Humble. For sure, Humble have some DRM-Free exclusives not available on GOG. I've even bought some of them. That doesn't change a thing with my arguments.

I'm not buying the GOG DRM argument, as aside from multiplayer, which to me doesn't really count, there is only a very miniscule amount of stuff you could technically call DRM on GOG, and I've not seen it grow in anything like a concerning amount. Sure, we should call it out when it happens, but we shouldn't go overboard.

There is quite frankly, no other store you can compare to GOG in DRM-Free terms, and the closest is the ZOOM Platform, which is still light years behind.

And my belief, is that we only have them now, because of the conditions at the time they came into existence. If they were just starting out now, I am very much certain they would fail in short order .. or be in a kind of limbo like ZOOM.
Post edited February 26, 2021 by Timboli
avatar
kohlrak: I think ti's reasonable, though, to point out that the reason things like beth games aren't on itch is partly the problem: we're creating and establishing a sort of "alt-big tech" which is likely to ultimately simply become "big tech," which is the concern. There is reasonable argumentation that there is a bit of DRM on gog already, through galaxy required features, even for things that are single-player exclusive. The concern is that we're building another steam, by having a central "establishment." We have to ask if things like beth games here make GOG an alternative, or just another side of the same coin, given that there are steam and epic exclusives, too, that GOG doesn't have. Stating the exclusives, while certainly important, just doesn't seem relevant. Humble has huniecam which i assume GOG rejected. I'm sure if i looked hard enough, i could find some DRM-free exclusives, perhaps even some higher ranking ones, that GOG was unable to get. Does that mean Humble is the true DRM-Free alternative, since GOG has DRM as does Humble, and Humble has DRM-free exclusives?
avatar
Timboli: I don't think it reasonable at all, as Bethesda etc were already around, and Itch started as a place for Indie games, and has just grown since then, to become something a bit more than its simple beginnings. And Bethesda are just one among many AAA providers.

What I said about Itch is about Itch, and not to be confused with Humble. For sure, Humble have some DRM-Free exclusives not available on GOG. I've even bought some of them. That doesn't change a thing with my arguments.

I'm not buying the GOG DRM argument, as aside from multiplayer, which to me doesn't really count, there is only a very miniscule amount of stuff you could technically call DRM on GOG, and I've not seen it grow in anything like a concerning amount. Sure, we should call it out when it happens, but we shouldn't go overboard.

There is quite frankly, no other store you can compare to GOG in DRM-Free terms, and the closest is the ZOOM Platform, which is still light years behind.

And my belief, is that we only have them now, because of the conditions at the time they came into existence. If they were just starting out now, I am very much certain they would fail in short order .. or be in a kind of limbo like ZOOM.
Pretty much what you wrote. Gog has no alternatives atm. And it is nearly 100% drm-free which is good.
Itch is a garbage bin, i bet there maybe 1% games worthy there. + it supports political activism, not good at all.
low rated
avatar
kohlrak: I think ti's reasonable, though, to point out that the reason things like beth games aren't on itch is partly the problem: we're creating and establishing a sort of "alt-big tech" which is likely to ultimately simply become "big tech," which is the concern. There is reasonable argumentation that there is a bit of DRM on gog already, through galaxy required features, even for things that are single-player exclusive. The concern is that we're building another steam, by having a central "establishment." We have to ask if things like beth games here make GOG an alternative, or just another side of the same coin, given that there are steam and epic exclusives, too, that GOG doesn't have. Stating the exclusives, while certainly important, just doesn't seem relevant. Humble has huniecam which i assume GOG rejected. I'm sure if i looked hard enough, i could find some DRM-free exclusives, perhaps even some higher ranking ones, that GOG was unable to get. Does that mean Humble is the true DRM-Free alternative, since GOG has DRM as does Humble, and Humble has DRM-free exclusives?
avatar
Timboli: I don't think it reasonable at all, as Bethesda etc were already around, and Itch started as a place for Indie games, and has just grown since then, to become something a bit more than its simple beginnings. And Bethesda are just one among many AAA providers.

What I said about Itch is about Itch, and not to be confused with Humble. For sure, Humble have some DRM-Free exclusives not available on GOG. I've even bought some of them. That doesn't change a thing with my arguments.

I'm not buying the GOG DRM argument, as aside from multiplayer, which to me doesn't really count, there is only a very miniscule amount of stuff you could technically call DRM on GOG, and I've not seen it grow in anything like a concerning amount. Sure, we should call it out when it happens, but we shouldn't go overboard.

There is quite frankly, no other store you can compare to GOG in DRM-Free terms, and the closest is the ZOOM Platform, which is still light years behind.

And my belief, is that we only have them now, because of the conditions at the time they came into existence. If they were just starting out now, I am very much certain they would fail in short order .. or be in a kind of limbo like ZOOM.
GOG is certainly on a trend, and GWENT is obviously at a model we don't respect at all. To be blunt, we can no longer say it's committed to DRM-free with any degree of honesty, when it can't even police it's own products. Don't get me wrong, I understand why GWENT has that model in place, but it's not like there aren't methods of making it work without DRM. The problem is, the DRM is inherently necessary for what i understand to be "gatcha mechanics." Given that permise, GOG is no different from Humble and Itch and the like in regards to DRM, because without a commitment, games here are incidentally DRM-free. What separates GOG from Steam, epic, etc, is that GOG's client is, still, optional.
avatar
kohlrak: GOG is certainly on a trend, and GWENT is obviously at a model we don't respect at all. To be blunt, we can no longer say it's committed to DRM-free with any degree of honesty, when it can't even police it's own products. Don't get me wrong, I understand why GWENT has that model in place, but it's not like there aren't methods of making it work without DRM. The problem is, the DRM is inherently necessary for what i understand to be "gatcha mechanics." Given that permise, GOG is no different from Humble and Itch and the like in regards to DRM, because without a commitment, games here are incidentally DRM-free. What separates GOG from Steam, epic, etc, is that GOG's client is, still, optional.
One game like GWENT isn't a trend, it is just one game.
A trend is something that happens more than once and on somewhat of a regular basis.

99.999% DRM-Free is still a huge part of what separates GOG from Steam and Epic etc ... at least for single-player.

And while I am unhappy with some of GOG's decisions, especially in regard to the old GOG Downloader and slackness with changelogs and entries and the issues related to game updates, you still can't ignore the logic of GOG providing an SDK that I and others use for alternates to Galaxy. If they ever take that away, then we really do have grounds to be super suspicious about their intent and endgame.

Until then, GOG are still the best store on the block for DRM-Free by a long long BIG margin.
low rated
avatar
kohlrak: GOG is certainly on a trend, and GWENT is obviously at a model we don't respect at all. To be blunt, we can no longer say it's committed to DRM-free with any degree of honesty, when it can't even police it's own products. Don't get me wrong, I understand why GWENT has that model in place, but it's not like there aren't methods of making it work without DRM. The problem is, the DRM is inherently necessary for what i understand to be "gatcha mechanics." Given that permise, GOG is no different from Humble and Itch and the like in regards to DRM, because without a commitment, games here are incidentally DRM-free. What separates GOG from Steam, epic, etc, is that GOG's client is, still, optional.
avatar
Timboli: One game like GWENT isn't a trend, it is just one game.
A trend is something that happens more than once and on somewhat of a regular basis.

99.999% DRM-Free is still a huge part of what separates GOG from Steam and Epic etc ... at least for single-player.

And while I am unhappy with some of GOG's decisions, especially in regard to the old GOG Downloader and slackness with changelogs and entries and the issues related to game updates, you still can't ignore the logic of GOG providing an SDK that I and others use for alternates to Galaxy. If they ever take that away, then we really do have grounds to be super suspicious about their intent and endgame.

Until then, GOG are still the best store on the block for DRM-Free by a long long BIG margin.
There actually is a trend. I know you don't respect that mentality, becaouse you don't see the issues with the multiplayer and teh like, but that doesn't change that it's there's a trend. GWENT is just the icing on the cake, not the central argument (hence "and").

Either way, i'm starting to get some more info on GOG and their shennanigans, and i'm not liking what i'm hearing, but i can't post or talk in PMs about it. Not necessarily DRM, related, though. I really don't foresee gog being here in 5 years without some really fancy product that can score financial support from companies like epic.
avatar
kohlrak: There actually is a trend. I know you don't respect that mentality, becaouse you don't see the issues with the multiplayer and teh like, but that doesn't change that it's there's a trend. GWENT is just the icing on the cake, not the central argument (hence "and").
Well if it is just MP related, then yes, I haven't seen the trend, because I don't indulge.
But neither have I really seen anyone complaining here about other games, like they do about GWENT.

And yes when it comes to mentality, I primarily see GOG as a single-player store, and multiplayer is a bonus. Many games echo that by not even providing MP here at GOG, even though they have it at Steam and elsewhere.

So because it's not something I actively engage in, it is mostly below the radar for me, and at best I can only go by what others say at the forum or in reviews ... which I have a fair handle on.

avatar
kohlrak: Either way, i'm starting to get some more info on GOG and their shennanigans, and i'm not liking what i'm hearing, but i can't post or talk in PMs about it. Not necessarily DRM, related, though. I really don't foresee gog being here in 5 years without some really fancy product that can score financial support from companies like epic.
Well that's all hearsay right now, and I have said similar in the past as a possibility, because I don't think GOG has been going all that well. Whether GOG fails to stay the distance, because only DRM-Free doesn't pay enough, remains to be seen. They've lasted 12+ years without having to give up their central premise yet, so I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt. In all likelihood they may move to a hybrid model, where we see some DRM games here, even if only through Galaxy ... that certainly seems on the cards with Epic.
Post edited March 08, 2021 by Timboli
low rated
avatar
kohlrak: There actually is a trend. I know you don't respect that mentality, becaouse you don't see the issues with the multiplayer and teh like, but that doesn't change that it's there's a trend. GWENT is just the icing on the cake, not the central argument (hence "and").
avatar
Timboli: Well if it is just MP related, then yes, I haven't seen the trend, because I don't indulge.
But neither have I really seen anyone complaining here about other games, like they do about GWENT.
That's because GWENT is strictly a non-offline game. People make exceptions for single player if they ahve no interest in multiplayer.
And yes when it comes to mentality, I primarily see GOG as a single-player store, and multiplayer is a bonus. Many games echo that by not even providing MP here at GOG, even though they have it at Steam and elsewhere.

So because it's not something I actively engage in, it is mostly below the radar for me, and at best I can only go by what others say at the forum or in reviews ... which I have a fair handle on.
Well, for some games, it's because of the reliance on the steam API for mutliplayer (epecifically because port-forwarding is an issue for many customers and developing code using sockets as a backend is too much for developers in this gamemaker/unity filled environment). Of course, i blame the devs for not thinking far enough into the future on that. Which, then, makes sense why GOG's trying to make galaxy so strong: they're trying to keep up with steam's API. I'm waiting for steam to take a shot at GOG over forking their API without license. I'm not sure how much merit the case would have, but i can't see steam not taking a shot once galaxy is forced on us (effectively giving steam a killshot if they win, though it would be a hard case for steam to make).
avatar
kohlrak: Either way, i'm starting to get some more info on GOG and their shennanigans, and i'm not liking what i'm hearing, but i can't post or talk in PMs about it. Not necessarily DRM, related, though. I really don't foresee gog being here in 5 years without some really fancy product that can score financial support from companies like epic.
Well that's all hearsay right now, and I have said similar in the past as a possibility, because I don't think GOG has been going all that well. Whether GOG fails to stay the distance, because only DRM-Free doesn't pay enough, remains to be seen. They've lasted 12+ years without having to give up their central premise yet, so I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt. In all likelihood they may move to a hybrid model, where we see some DRM games here, even if only through Galaxy ... that certainly seems on the cards with Epic.
More specifically, my info comes from one of the companies that has delisted a game on GOG. They had a few complaints, but 2 really, really stood out to me. The complaints really adds context to their curation, and their general attitude towards devs, which reinforces my mind to tell devs to avoid GOG altogether (not because GOG's going out of business, but just their attitude). I foresee alot more games being delisted in the near future (and now i see why so many have the past year or so). It's not that DRM-free doesn't pay enough, so much as it costs too much, and it's GOG, not DRM-free itself. GOG's on a highhorse and it needs bucked off, preferably into some mud so they remember how small they really are. I totally get, now, why GOG rated so low to developers in the one survey that was posted some time back.
avatar
kohlrak: More specifically, my info comes from one of the companies that has delisted a game on GOG. They had a few complaints, but 2 really, really stood out to me. The complaints really adds context to their curation, and their general attitude towards devs, which reinforces my mind to tell devs to avoid GOG altogether (not because GOG's going out of business, but just their attitude). I foresee alot more games being delisted in the near future (and now i see why so many have the past year or so). It's not that DRM-free doesn't pay enough, so much as it costs too much, and it's GOG, not DRM-free itself. GOG's on a highhorse and it needs bucked off, preferably into some mud so they remember how small they really are. I totally get, now, why GOG rated so low to developers in the one survey that was posted some time back.
Still hearsay, and I take with a pinch of salt what a lot of DEVs and PUBs say, they have their own agenda to further, so are not exactly a paragon of reliability without bias. Most probably see DRM-Free as a poisoned but sweet tasting chalice. Some clearly like to seem as if they are supportive, but aren't really and just do it for image and promotional reasons, knowing many in frustration will turn to Steam etc eventually.

And as for all these delistings you mention, that has always been the case at GOG, many come and go. I've not noticed that there have been particularly more of them in recent times. One thing I have noticed though, is GOG getting a lot more games, especially old ones in the last few months. I also note that the pricing is higher now at GOG on average ... been that way for over a year now. Is that the result of DEV/PUB pressure maybe.

If they had a bad model, they would have failed long ago. Much of what has been happening in recent times though, surely stems from the Steam/Epic war, which would have to be impacting everyone else, probably GOG even more than most.
Post edited March 10, 2021 by Timboli