The new engine (RS3/NXT) is modern enough. They copied a lot of of stuff from other popular games, including the overly complicated combat, while retaining some of the old stuff and adding lots of annoying hand holding and micro transactions. For me a rpg is making my own path and story, not being told all the time where to go and what to do. It is no more a game where you can play only a little whenever you feel like it unless you can just shut your eyes and ears to the nagging.
This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHYUnwVbsU shows what RS looks like nowadays. No longer a browser game.

About simple, repeptitive tasks (grinding) in MMOs: If only a little concentration is needed, there is a lot of time to talk about everything between the heavens with your friends in the game, which is one of the game genre's great attractions in my humble opinion.

Ah, ok, I see. We don't agree with your opinion that MMOs are great, thus we are wrong. Nice. MMOs are grindfests, and they are merely social gaming platforms. They are also intrinsically DRM as I mention, you cannot play them without a connection. What more information is there to give, other than your opinion seems to matter more than others?

No ill feeling, just was surprised :)

I understand where the dislike comes from, kind of which is why I did not even got into details of specific games. MMOs have some shared core elements which ppl either like/get along with or dislike.

And if they don't its "all MMOs are bad". No matter how godly awesome that caramel, walnut filled and peanut oiled choclate candy bar tastes, don't try to get an nut allergic to eat it ;)

I'm not comparing them to each other. I meant that every quest in TOR plays like everyother quest also in TOR.

You guys say this as if MMORPGs are a failure of a genre.

The only highlight in TOR is the cinematic way quests introduced, ends and the testosterone filled bad ass flair the bounty hunter adds to them. Gameplay is sadly just ass. Once I even sleept in in the middle of fighting some mobs halfway to a quest zone. So sterile, so much wasted chances.... :/

Yeah, but in most it's "hidden" much better. The story, the environments, and many other elements can provide for diversity and distractions from the similaritiy. Not to mention that many allow to have fun outside of quests, allow for great emergent gameplay. I can go off the rails, steal, sneak, discover do whatever just for the hell of it. MMOs don't provide a fraction of that freedom, and with all the other people around, doing the same quests or just goofing around with silly emotes and dances there is no immersion, and no fun in just existing in that world.

How much time, on how many MMOs would I ahve to waste before being "allowed" to just give up on them and play the games I actually like? I think that after all the MMOs I've listed above, I've given the genre quite enough of a fair shot.

Except that what you said is your (obviously uninformed) opinion, not information. How many MMOs have you played to form that opinion btw?

And duh on the not being able to play them without a connection. You do know what the O in the name stands for right? I guess to you the whole internet is a vast DRM scheme too.

And btw, I don't think that MMOs as a whole are great. The overwhelming majority of them range from terrible to mediocre, and even the rest won't appeal to most people. It's just that characterizing all MMOs as grindfests and social platforms is narrow-minded and stupid.

I agree with you actually, which is why I prefer singleplayer RPGs too (the good ones anyway). It's just that I find blaming MMOs for being grindfests when very often you do just as much mindless killing in single player RPGs to be a bit hypocritical.

"Allowed"? You can spend your time however you want, if you choose to not play MMOs anymore, it's your choice and nothing to do with me. I'm not one of those people who feel they can tell other people how to spend their free time.
I was just pointing out that apparently all you've really tried in the MMO genre are WoW clones and there are different ones out there.

I've played only one MMORPG, and that was back around 2001? Something like that. Friends are what made the difference for me. If it weren't for playing with friends (who lived 1,000 miles away) then it would been just an RPG with a weak story and a whole mess of bots running around trying to do the same stuff as me. We weren't playing to maximize our characters, so that took off a lot of pressure and made things more fun compared to dealing with some online Drill Sergeant who needs a raid to be perfectly organized and everyone must follow a role to a T. Yawn. Get enough of that crap in real life.

So for an RPG, anyway, a genre that requires a healthy time investment, consider whether you have friends playing or whether you're a person who has no problem working with strangers. I'll stress the importance of the social nature of the genre, because if that isn't why you're playing then you may as well play an offline game.

And what you said is your opinion. Why not stop attacking people who put forward their opinion?

I don't like MMOs, on account of them feeling like a rat race. I don't like working hard, only to be another body in a sea of nobodies.

The core game of Guild Wars 2 is free, and it's not a pay4win. You could try it to see if you like it. The first is also without monthly subscription, but it's not free and it's becoming empty with the years (There are still people in big cities in the american districs). They are both great games for trying the genre, specially the second, wich has many players (even if, in some ways, it's more similar to a single player RPG than an MMO)

Because the key difference between my opinion and yours, is that I've played quite a few MMOs and therefore I know what I'm talking about, while you obviously don't, since you apparently haven't played any.

Personally I try not to offer opinions on stuff I know nothing about, but you seem to feel differently. That's fine, but don't expect other people not to call you out on your bullshit.

I could not recommend Guild Wars 2 enough.

If you're looking for an experience with numerous players, free exploration and the option to either soar through the game freely or grind the everlasting crap out of it, you can play this game any way you like.

There are a few components that require some grind, like raids and a part of the game called fractals (essentially a collection of mini dungeons that increase with difficulty the further you get into them), the rest of the game leaves you free to explore the world and pick off story elements as you level past a certain point.

PvP is available as SPvP, Structured PvP which allows two groups of 5 players to fight over points of interest on a map in order to acquire perks or straight up accrue points and win the maps, and WvW, which allows large groups from each of 3 servers to battle each other on massive maps to capture points, amass resources and outflank armies, or just ram down a few gates and capture a keep with some troops and some siege equipment.

The expansion also adds countless new elements into the mix, things called masteries, like the ability to glide and use mechanics like autoloot to pick up looted items automatically.

The community is very friendly, overall, with the only exceptions in some salty PvP matches, and occasionally raids, but that's understandable if they get their asses handed to them, all the time.

You also get to completely customize your look, with skins being just about the biggest thing in the game. Though, a lot of it is bought through the gemstore, but don't let that stop you, as gems can be bought with ingame gold, instead of actual money, if you choose.

New content is added regularly, and over the last year there have been several new maps and story bits introduced to the game. There are also indications that we are getting close to seeing another expansion, which would introduce the game to even more maps, story and mechanics.

If you want to try it out, the free version includes everything from the main game, with only a few limitations, but otherwise leaves you completely free to discover the world and meet other players, many of whom are happy to help out new players.

https://www.guildwars2.com/

Just one thing, if you decide to get the game, don't get it through a site like G2A, they're basically okay with trading in stolen merchandise, which leads to problems for developers.