I don't know who Tom of Finland was or is and i'm not interested in finding out, as i said, i think Dethmold caractherization was spot on, miles ahead of any cahracterization in the first game which is what anyone can ask for, or so i thought The guy fought back even though he had no chance of winning. His temptative way at bargaining only showed that he sucked at it because it was not in his character to beg for his life. Hell, he did more than Henselt who merely stood here, firm in his believe that his royalty and demi-godness infused ass would shield him from harm, even while he got a blade to the stomach and bled to death like the pig he was. Dethmold role as a mage in war was mostly that of field artillery, a squishy, so i think he did show resolve by trying to go melee against the likes of Geralt and Roche with a puny dagger.

Unlike you, unwavering in your pursuit to find a way to have your sensibilities bruised even if there's no reason for it you mean? Sorry mate, i'm all for fairness but i loathe foolery ;)

I'm not sure what you mean, He sodomized Ves not because he was gay but because he was a slime ball, just like Henselt wasn't a rapist who seemed to think it was a previledge for any woman to be raped by him because he was straight or Loredo that in adition to raping the elven woman also kept her bound in the back room so that he could have his fun with her anytime he wanted to, assuming he was not too busy 'entertaining' whores in the adjacent room. In regards to Dethmold's servant, yes, he abused his position and status to his advantage, just like it happened alot in the period depicted, just like it happens alot today, gay or otherwise. Do you think that aspect should have been portrayed differently because he happens to be gay?

What it seems to me is that you're looking for preferential treatment in the way gay individuals, gay men to be more precise, are portrayed in art or entertainment. I still didn't ear you complain that the scene depicting two lesbians in the game revolves around a bit of S&M or that in practical terms Cynthia is as muh a servant to Phillipa as the guy in Dethmold's room. Isn't any of that demeaning to lesbians in your opinion or it doesn't matter because they're gay women? Are you anti-gay_gender_equality ? :P

There are despicable gay individuals just like there are despicable straight individuals portrayed in the game. Why is it ok to show reality as it is for one but, apparently mandatory for you, to guild the pill for the other ?

I think calling the others single minded is a bit ironic in your case since your argument that Dethmold is gay is not bullet-proof in the first place, as some of the others pointed out. Was Dethmold really gay? Have you seen a CD Projekt script where it says "gay sorcerer Dethmold"? Funky clothes? - Cross-dressing by itself does not imply gayness. Dildos and sex toys in the room? - well, he could be a pervert that enjoys humiliating people sexually regardless of gender. That his sex slave was a guy? - well, maybe it's just because it's hard to get your hands on a girl he can have his sick way with while you're on the march with a bunch of soldiers away from your kingdom. Hell, we don't even know if Dethmold is capable of having sex at all (he's kind of old and who knows:)). Unless the game devs show up and say : "Hey, Dethmold was gay", I don't see how you can even claim he was and put forward your argument about the game being homophobic (the correct word for "anti-gay", I believe).

have you seen the witcher's pony tail? this game is obviously not "anti-gay" ;-)

I tried to search the characters to remind me if I ever got this Cynthia / Philippa scene, and at least I do not recall it, so cannot really comment.

This is BTW stated about Philppa:

"She led the Thanedd coup against the Brotherhood of Sorcerers, intending to neutralise suspected traitors allied with Nilfgaard. "

And this is stated about Cynthia:

"As it turned out, Cynthia was also a spy for the Nilfgaardian Empire. However, those who could have stopped her saw through her games too late. "

Now, this puts your servant theory at odds, and if the women like SM sex, then that is fine, and if Cynthia put up with it to use Philippa in her schemes - quite succesfully it seems - this is within her boundaries as well.

The fact that Dethmold is a whimp - ok, you find him very powerful - and he is the only evil persona getting quite a demaning end is what is to my distaste, which is far removed from a demand that he should not be evil or not be killed "because he is gay."

Hanselt got a civilized stab I think (I objected to his lynching and raping on equal measure so I set political niceties aside), and that assassin fellow a duel or release.

If in fact someone finds Dethmold an über-character, then the balance of the writing would not seem off I agree - but to assume that this is the token way he comes across would not be correct.

I find your view totally reasonabale if you are able to see Dethmold as you state - but to find it foolish that someone should find him a sad whimp is bit defensive.

And likewise to take such offense on view that the genitalia cutting and sex slavery was not such a great plot idea in view of what the other characters got; and quasi-absence of postively written homosexual characters in any game (arguably on impartial sample); and the activism against persons of homosexual persuation east of ex Iron Curtain.

To assume that I want to find offense is untrue as well, as I found TW quite a nice effort, and I would prefer to like it.

But thanks for reminding of of the Philippa / Cynthia plot - Cynthia was indeed a carfty character, even if ambiguous due to her using the former.

Just to be clear it does not come across by "single minded" I was referring to the counter options, nor persons.

Well, the wikia goes to state this, though:

"As revealed during Chapter III on Roche's path, Dethmold is also gay. He is seen with his manservant who is also his sex slave ( though it is not proven besides the words of the servant himself ) while preening in front of a vanity, gently caressing his acne, warts and zits. There a number of suggestive items scattered around his chambers in Loc Muinne."

WAIT... Dethmold is gay??!!??

Meh, who care either way.

OP seems just to be another victim of today's brainwashing. As far as I'm concerned EVERY sub culture is ripe for ripping on. Politically incorrect? NAH.. just not a mindless bland drone.

There are FAR FAR greater crimes committed in the world, all around you, than taking a potshot at some limp-wrists.

Just as sort of summary post, I am quite satisfied that I have gotten a reponse that generally the writing and the balance of TW2 is considered excellent.

The others - hey, would this be ... me, lol, does not appreciate the balance of the writing, and regrettably appreciates TW2 less for that.

Regarding the balance of writing, or lack thereof, it is my view that the original came was maybe written as sexist, but simply failed on delivery becasue the overall effect of Geralt busying him with his Pokomen hobby and then playing house, child and all, was rather comical, making Geralt quite humours.

I can appreciate why TW might have been viewed as not having been written equally for everyone, but I did not want to drag this into this discussion, even if it may have seemed ignoring any other potentail issues in the gameworld.

As a girl, I do actually take greater "office" (quite lightly meant) to Triss´ unreasonable infatuation with Geralt - beats me that capable, and comely lass sticking to a total sod - and it certainly is not in her character be such a goose. So once Triss shifts her attention to more deserving grounds I think I might be able to get over the Dethmold thing! :-p

Thank you for the opinions, and wish everyone a happy new year.

I am making this resume of sorts since to acknowledge the majority vote, as well as because there is little middle ground in opinions which makes inputs to any debate less nuanced. I am not taken aback by being in the minority vote though, but will have less time to respond post holiday period.

As said, I would like to like TW2 thx to originality of the developers, but cannot find all the cutting such a great idea.

Oh come on just read the books already! Triss has a ... History with Geralt.

Cynthia may go along with Philippa's libido to serve her own purposes, yes, but Philippa doesn't know that, in her mind she's frolicking about with her apprentice, someone that Philippa could seriouly hold back were she to refuse Phillipa's advances, she takes advantage of her position, like masters, teachers, rulers, employers, etc, have done since we got up from all four and put out them torches in them pretty caves filleddwith those nice blood paintings on the walls, the very same thing Dethmold does in regards to his manservant. I think you're reading too much into the expression sexlave. The term doesn't necessarily means a slavery-like-slave, as i'm sure you are aware. Go over that scene once again and tell me if the demeanor of the guy in bed while Dethmold is having his monologue by the mirror is that of a terrified ou traumatized slave-slave. It isn't, if anything he looks bored out of his mind. No wonder, Dethmold's monologue is probably alot harder to swallow than his little magical staff.

Oh, Triss isn't enfatuated with Geralt, she's using him for great sex and to advance her own agenda. That's one thing i like about the Witcher, everyone is basically morally bankrupt trash, elves, humans, dwarves, gay, straight, young, old, man, women, whatever, exception being a mutant freak and a freaking dragon.

Anyway, Happy New Year.

To the people thinking this is oversensitive: the only references to gays in the games are
a) homophobic slurs (which actually ~fit~ the tone of the story and come from foul mouthed low lifes as a rule or at least fit the general tone of people's cussing))
b) women prostitutes and the odd titillating insult about sorceresses. (well ok, and phillipa/cynthia. Again that's pretty much passed off as hot-so-ok though :p)
c) an abusive slimebag who in rapid succession is shown pimping and preening in front of his servant, then killed with his balls cut off, followed immediately by a comment about 'he'd better not have touched the kid we just rescued!' The only clearly gay character is thus the nightmare often levelled against gays - preening abusers and child molesters.

All in all, pretty consistent messaging. The Dethmold confrontation and aftermath felt like a slap in the face. I was still reeling when i did the search to see if others felt as upset.

This is not me going 'omg we should only be shown nicely' or 'where's my ridiculous slashfic gay romance with geralt'. This is consistent and pure celluloid closet style (ie in the past we could only be portrayed negatively and/or die tragically) portrayal.

This.

I know that this is a very old thread, but I am tired of people accusing gays and their supporters of "being ridiculous" or "just trying to find things to be offended about" concerning what happened with Dethmold. He is the ONLY gay male portrayed in the entire series, and from what I have read this even counts the books, and he is portrayed as a depraved, pathetic monster. Those that point out how there are also straight people portrayed as monsters so it should be no big deal that Dethmold is portrayed this way seem to be missing the fact that there is balance when it comes to heterosexuals in the game. There are straight heroes as well as straight villains. We just have a villain when it comes to gay males.

Also, I recall a dialogue in the first game between Geralt and another character from the first game that included mention of some sick and twisted evil guy who had depraved sex with stable boys. So, the only times gay men are mentioned or shown in the whole series, they are shown as sick and evil. Sorry, but I really would appreciate it if they would introduce at least ONE positive gay male side character to balance this out.

Yes, I would like an implementation just like in The Onion movie (the black male). That would be awesome and totally appropriate.

You should sell this idea to a publisher. They are gonna love it!

I am not asking for a Mary Sue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue) gay guy. Just someone who isn't a total monster. I don't see why this is so terrible. I also don't see why you would find a gay person who isn't depraved and evil "boring".

Well... To be honest, while playing through the witcher 2, i became frustrated and irritated, because of the lack of alcohol (as an item, a minigame and a means to alter your gameplay experiece at will) and sex (compared to the first game where you had as many encounters as you could ever wish for), especially angry for prostitues lacking choice to work their proffession on you, and even lacking dialogue entirely altogether. But my sour mood, completely reversed, while watching and savoring Dethmold 's end.

I was seriously worrying that a game developer or two, suddenly turned gay and decided to faq up the entire game this way. Hell, that reminded me of "World of Darkness online", where exactly this happened and the devs announced in-game gay bars, just to make the world of that mmo apealing to those "different" individuals...

The world of the witcher, is a mature, tough, dark one. Sex, murder, rape, gambling, heavy drinking, war, gore. Not pinky lillies and pink panthers. DEFINATELY NOT FOR. Why does each and every fetish-freak out there take offense with in-game gore towards gays/lesbians/whatever fetish-freak, or with the absense of "abnormalities" and ability to indulge in-game? Did someone get angry with the two old men who raped loredos mother while in the hospital as a mad child? Pedos are even worse, yet none complained! Why? Because it is a faqing game! Wake up and welcome to reality! And stop being edgy and paranoid, games are games, a means for entertainment. Not the cornerstone for irrelevant and paranoid blabbering and abstract or lunatic parallelisms! Totally not!

Me, as i said above, loved the scene, because it belied my fears for witcher world disintegrating into a politically correct, censored crap. Plus, i do believe all those people with these derranged and sick tastes, should meet the same end, both in and out of game, but that 's another story. I almost puked when Dethmold ordered the servant to pull off his pants, becaused they had time for one more. Roche is my hero. Dethmold and Henselt got what they deserved, they had it coming for a very long time.