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speakk: I feel like GOG has been going downhill in the aspects that brought be to GOG and kept me engaged here:

- DRM free? You can certainly download games without a client (still, even though god damn those clients are being pushed hard), but there is no guarantee that the game is actually DRM free anymore. You always have to go read through the comments to find out if the game actually implements a DRM scheme or not, GOG often will not tell you.

- Update notifications? An awesome feature that literally kept me coming back every day. Well, after silently dropping them as a feature, indeed without letting anyone know, I found the huge community updated thread with new updates listed. The community is now responsible for doing the job of the platform. I can't even sort my library by last updated to be able to look up the changelogs myself.

- The client? At its current state the client is something I can ignore, but considering the slippery slope of more DRM games coming into GOG, I wouldn't be surprised if more and more functionality was moved onto the client. And no, I don't want a linux version of the client either, I can already type 'cd ~/games ; ls' and be done with it, or dl a game installer from the site.

- All platforms equal? Now this one is not black and white because I certainly don't have any hard data on this, but it certainly _feels_ like more and more Windows-only games are coming to this place. However, I won't put the blame of this completely on GOG, it's just something that has made me sad. Feel free to ignore this particular point if you wish. And btw I too have enjoyed some of the Windows games here via Wine, so I'm certainly not completely against it anyway.

All in all, GOG used to be a place I would, without reservations, recommend for everyone, telling them this is the only way not to let DRM become the only thing people know. Nowadays though, I'm starting to hope a viable alternative might pop up, because I'm certainly losing hope with GOG itself.

Discussion welcome, keep it civil and be nice to each other! :)
In my opinion, GOG remains the greatest place in the current world to purchase games; only the glorious days of big box packaging were greater. My only major complaint is that they don't have prepaid GOG Wallet cards like Steam has in stores like Walmart. As a guy who doesn't have or particularly want a credit card, my only options are to use Paysafecard (which I've never used before and is only available in stores that are about a 30 minute drive away) or borrow a relative's credit card with their permission and reimburse them. Prepaid credit cards don't work because they are only permitted for US-based transactions. So really, the ONLY reason I still purchase most of my games on Steam is because of how difficult it is for me to purchase via GOG. If they got those prepaid cards like Steam has, I'd be using GOG almost exclusively.

Plus, their client is so much better than the garbage clients of Steam, Origin, etc. I've fully switched over to using Galaxy 2.0 because it has all I want, all in one client. I literally only use the others to install the games. Oh, and with some games on Origin, I just use their client directly because it's a massive resource hog and having both it and Galaxy 2.0 open at the same time causes some slight performance issues. But otherwise? Yeah, Galaxy 2.0 all the way.

Nobody's perfect but GOG is the greatest place to purchase games right now, IMO.
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JakobFel: As a guy who doesn't have or particularly want a credit card, my only options are to use Paysafecard (which I've never used before and is only available in stores that are about a 30 minute drive away) or borrow a relative's credit card with their permission and reimburse them. Prepaid credit cards don't work because they are only permitted for US-based transactions. So really, the ONLY reason I still purchase most of my games on Steam is because of how difficult it is for me to purchase via GOG. If they got those prepaid cards like Steam has, I'd be using GOG almost exclusively.
Not to pry or sound like i'm pushing, but what about bank debit cards(or even ones from a credit union that come with accounts)? One can use them here and they are decently secure/safe.

(Or one can even[if they have a bank account] use paypal here as well)

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JakobFel: Nobody's perfect but GOG is the greatest place to purchase games right now, IMO.
For selection(vs other smaller drm free stores) and some other aspects, yes, this is true. For how they handle customer relations in some ways and some other aspects, sadly not so much.

They are decent, though, and i'll likely never leave them fully even if a decent competitor was established fully(zoom is coming closer each day, for example).
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GlorFindel: GOG is pretty much a dead thing; in a few months/a year Galaxy will be the only way to download games from GOG.
Depending how they'd implement that, I might actually be ok with that (but overall I do prefer having different download options, including third-party tools like gogrepo).

So, if GOG e.g. offered a way to mass-download my GOG games easily with Galaxy so that I'd have my downloaded games either with standalone installers (like now), or at least zip-compressed archives that I just need to unzip on another PC to play them there without a client, that would sound ok to me. Especially if they implemented e.g. optional p2p protocol so that I could always download at full speed also from other GOG users, then I'd pee my pants from joy.

However, if GOG made it a requirement that I'd have to use that online client to play my single-player games, then I wouldn't be ok with it. At that point I'd be like "Remind me, why was I buying these games from GOG, and not from Steam?".

GOG does what it needs to do, and so do I.
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JakobFel: As a guy who doesn't have or particularly want a credit card, my only options are to use Paysafecard (which I've never used before and is only available in stores that are about a 30 minute drive away) or borrow a relative's credit card with their permission and reimburse them. Prepaid credit cards don't work because they are only permitted for US-based transactions. So really, the ONLY reason I still purchase most of my games on Steam is because of how difficult it is for me to purchase via GOG. If they got those prepaid cards like Steam has, I'd be using GOG almost exclusively.
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GameRager: Not to pry or sound like i'm pushing, but what about bank debit cards(or even ones from a credit union that come with accounts)? One can use them here and they are decently secure/safe.

(Or one can even[if they have a bank account] use paypal here as well)
No worries, I didn't take that as prying/pushing. I could, theoretically, use one of those but I've always been a bit nervous using those cards, period. I've always been a guy who prefers one-off payment, whether it's via direct transfer of cash or through one-off prepaid cards. I get even more nervous with those cards when it comes to online shopping. I honestly despite all forms of online shopping but GOG is one of those sites that I like, simply because they do their best to make it feel more like classic retail and they maintain the classic spirit of physical retail. As for Paypal, as far as I'm aware, I'd have to tie that directly to my bank account as well and then I'd run into a similar issue.
Post edited May 19, 2020 by JakobFel
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speakk: The community is now responsible for doing the job of the platform.
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fronzelneekburm: Yeah, what else is new. ;P
I actually prefer that the community can also do things of their own. After all, that is why we have gogrepo.

I can kinda understand why a store (especially a DRM-free store) doesn't necessarily want to release an official client whose main purpose was for you to download ALL your purchased content easily to your PC(***), but I am fine with the community offering that option, and GOG not actively trying to block it. It is much easier to get new features done in such unofficial download client, heck anyone with python skills could implement them themselves (like I've been meaning to make that change to calculate the remaining time for your gogrepo downloads...).

(***) The reasons are:

1. People mass-downloading all their games and all updates causes extra load to download servers. A store probably wants to promote the idea that people don't download their games UNTIL they are really going to play them, one by one.

2. Since this is a DRM-free store, there may be evil persons who use these kinds of mass-download tools to keep their pirate site (with GOG game installers) complete and up to date.

For 1, the best solution would be to implement some kind of optional peer-to-peer protocol to an official client downloader client, for mass-download. GOG would be there just as a gatekeeper, to check if a person has the right to download some GOG game from other users. That would take load off of GOG download servers (because people would mostly be downloading from other GOG users), and probably also increase and stabilize download speeds for many GOG users.

For 2... My firm belief is that most people still prefer to buy their games from GOG, due to support they get for their games from GOG. And because they know that is the right thing to do, and pirating the games from pirate sites is not. I buy my games from GOG because currently GOG offers a service I want to use, and I hope they will stay that way.
Post edited May 19, 2020 by timppu
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JakobFel: No worries, I didn't take that as prying/pushing.
Thanks....and yeah I figured you might not see it that way, but some do so I usually try to make sure I don't cross any lines or offend when saying such things. :)

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JakobFel: I could, theoretically, use one of those but I've always been a bit nervous using those cards, period. I've always been a guy who prefers one-off payment, whether it's via direct transfer of cash or through one-off prepaid cards. I get even more nervous with those cards when it comes to online shopping. I honestly despite all forms of online shopping but GOG is one of those sites that I like, simply because they do their best to make it feel more like classic retail and they maintain the classic spirit of physical retail. As for Paypal, as far as I'm aware, I'd have to tie that directly to my bank account as well and then I'd run into a similar issue.
All I know as per bank cards is that the info is usually very secure on sites like GOG, and even if one had a "suspicious charge" the bank or such will usually refund the money if you call them...that's been my experience, anyways.

Also no worries....you do as you see fit...I was just musing some other ideas that work for me that might work for you and others should you ever choose to use them. :)
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JakobFel: No worries, I didn't take that as prying/pushing.
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GameRager: Thanks....and yeah I figured you might not see it that way, but some do so I usually try to make sure I don't cross any lines or offend when saying such things. :)

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JakobFel: I could, theoretically, use one of those but I've always been a bit nervous using those cards, period. I've always been a guy who prefers one-off payment, whether it's via direct transfer of cash or through one-off prepaid cards. I get even more nervous with those cards when it comes to online shopping. I honestly despite all forms of online shopping but GOG is one of those sites that I like, simply because they do their best to make it feel more like classic retail and they maintain the classic spirit of physical retail. As for Paypal, as far as I'm aware, I'd have to tie that directly to my bank account as well and then I'd run into a similar issue.
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GameRager: All I know as per bank cards is that the info is usually very secure on sites like GOG, and even if one had a "suspicious charge" the bank or such will usually refund the money if you call them...that's been my experience, anyways.

Also no worries....you do as you see fit...I was just musing some other ideas that work for me that might work for you and others should you ever choose to use them. :)
Yeah, it can be hard to tell tone via text like this but I figured you were just trying to offer a suggestion. :)

If I did end up doing something like that, I'd really be locking my PC down every time I make a transaction lol, I'd probably use Avast's secure browser and everything. I hate dealing with that sort of thing even if I'm able to avoid suspicious charges and such. I mean, I just figure it'd be so much easier if they had those prepaid cards. Run down to the store, grab a card, give the cashier $20, run back home, scratch the stuff off the back, enter the code and I'd be good to go.. instead of having to deal with the hassle of banks and the worry of possibly losing my info somehow lol
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JakobFel: If I did end up doing something like that, I'd really be locking my PC down every time I make a transaction lol, I'd probably use Avast's secure browser and everything. I hate dealing with that sort of thing even if I'm able to avoid suspicious charges and such. I mean, I just figure it'd be so much easier if they had those prepaid cards. Run down to the store, grab a card, give the cashier $20, run back home, scratch the stuff off the back, enter the code and I'd be good to go.. instead of having to deal with the hassle of banks and the worry of possibly losing my info somehow lol
Cards would be nice but I dunno how many would use em....also they are plastic waste to add to the landfill.

Hmm, maybe if they allowed them to be reloaded with cash at various IRL stores.....that could work, and reduce plastic waste. :)
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JakobFel: If I did end up doing something like that, I'd really be locking my PC down every time I make a transaction lol, I'd probably use Avast's secure browser and everything. I hate dealing with that sort of thing even if I'm able to avoid suspicious charges and such. I mean, I just figure it'd be so much easier if they had those prepaid cards. Run down to the store, grab a card, give the cashier $20, run back home, scratch the stuff off the back, enter the code and I'd be good to go.. instead of having to deal with the hassle of banks and the worry of possibly losing my info somehow lol
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GameRager: Cards would be nice but I dunno how many would use em....also they are plastic waste to add to the landfill.

Hmm, maybe if they allowed them to be reloaded with cash at various IRL stores.....that could work, and reduce plastic waste. :)
I know it sounds insensitive but I'm not all that concerned with plastic waste because I usually save my old ones anyways. Sometimes I'll turn them into guitar picks, sometimes I'll just use them as decoration or, most recently, I was able to use one to scrape old thermal paste off of my CPU when I got a new CPU cooler.

One thing I've noticed about the Steam cards as of late is that they've been more of this card stock material anyways, so it's less of a concern. Reloadable ones would be a nice option, no doubt. It'd all be so much simpler if these stupid prepaid credit cards weren't restricted to be used in the US only.
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JakobFel: I know it sounds insensitive but I'm not all that concerned with plastic waste because I usually save my old ones anyways. Sometimes I'll turn them into guitar picks, sometimes I'll just use them as decoration or, most recently, I was able to use one to scrape old thermal paste off of my CPU when I got a new CPU cooler.
You find new uses for stuff as well?

Smart man. :)

Now if only more were like that.....

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JakobFel: One thing I've noticed about the Steam cards as of late is that they've been more of this card stock material anyways, so it's less of a concern. Reloadable ones would be a nice option, no doubt. It'd all be so much simpler if these stupid prepaid credit cards weren't restricted to be used in the US only.
Yeah, dunno why a card with MC or Visa on it cannot be used in any country that accept such....seems dumb to me(well barring some exceptions like imports and exports that need to be controlled).
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I would be more worried concerning the retroactive removal of game content, instead.

Even Witcher 3 had some soundtrack tracks removed, years later after its release. Mafia 2 lacks part of its in-game soundtrack. And so on.

First it was the silent or not, removal of old policies (fair pricing, for instance). Then, games suddenly stopped being "complete packages". All while, censored games here is a thing, plus at the same time, curation refuses partnership with M-rate game developers reaching for partnership many times over and relative wishlist votes is of the 600+ range caliber. And we didn't even mention the complete change of acronym and priorities, GoodOldGames.

If they keep the nasty chages going forward, then it will be the correct time to give up gog. Or if one of those already implemented intensifies (like the removal of game content, after having bought it whole, which is the worst malpractice i have every witnessed myself, throughout all of my gaming years). Being notified about updates is one thing, but not being notified about your purchased product being butchered behind your back without your knowledge or consent, is completely another!
Post edited May 19, 2020 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
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P8j6: Not true. Forcing multiplayer throught 3rd party servers is DRM.
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TheDudeLebowski: Please explain how this is DRM.
Well, i know that Big Dude is always right :)
But, let me try...

By definition, from wiki link you send me: "DRM technologies try to control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works (such as software..."

If multiplayer is allowed EXCLUSIVELY ONLY through 3rd party proprietary servers, you have no control over multiplayer part of the game. You can't host you own servers on your own hardware.
Owner of the servers can do what he want with your account. He can ban you or kick you out of game. He can prevent you from playing.
When he decides that servers dont making enough money, he just shuts them down and multiplayer on such game cant be played anymore.

So, it is, "use control" of the software, isnt it?

Now, if you have game which supports "official servers" AND ALSO multiplayer through LAN, then its perfectly OK.
I dont say that "offical servers" are some evil blasphemy. I just saying that in completely DRM-FREE game there should always be alternative in form of LAN, HOT-SEAT, etc...

Let me demonstrate on game franchise "Age of Wonders".

Age of Wonders II: The Wizard's Throne, released in 2002.
It had support for online matching thourd propieraty service called "Gamespy Arcade"
But it also have LAN support.

Now, almost 20 years later. Gamespy arcade is offline and discontinued. But i can still play with my friends through LAN. Because LAN is DRM-Free and i can always setup my own private multiplayer game through this.

Latest installment in Age of Wonders series - Age of Wonders: Planetfall
Multiplayer is availble only for users registered on Paradox servers. You must do online-check or No multiplayer for you.
I wonder, after another 20 years, if Paradox servers will shut down. Will i be still able to play multiplayer? Nop. If servers shuts down, then no.
Theres no offline LAN in this game.
Post edited May 19, 2020 by P8j6
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P8j6: snip
But, again, that is not the definition of DRM. I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I understand the point you're trying to make. DRM, however, is not a blanket term about control. It's a specific term. The examples you've noted suggest control, but under no circumstances do they suggest Digital Rights Management. DRM concerns protection of copyrights. 3rd party proprietary servers are not necessarily a means for the developer/publisher/copyright holder to control their product.

If by some magical way mp3 is no longer supported anywhere, and there's no way of ever bringing it back, I can't yell DRM just because I can't play the files anymore.

Most of the developers who created games 20 years ago, games that do not support LAN and didn't back then either, have no management over their digital rights if GOG, Steam, or anyone offers servers as a service for multiplayer.

Again, I understand that the point made is that some people would appreciate having more control over their multiplayer games than allowing any random X server to spy on their info, and it's a valid point. It's just not DRM under its widely accepted definition.

Paradox servers and Planetfall: yes, that does sound like Paradox wants more control over their product, but it's up to you if you want to give them that control. Free servers come and go. If you don't want to give anything to Paradox other than the initial license fee, then you don't have to, and they have no control over that.
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JakobFel: I know it sounds insensitive but I'm not all that concerned with plastic waste because I usually save my old ones anyways. Sometimes I'll turn them into guitar picks, sometimes I'll just use them as decoration or, most recently, I was able to use one to scrape old thermal paste off of my CPU when I got a new CPU cooler.
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GameRager: You find new uses for stuff as well?

Smart man. :)

Now if only more were like that.....

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JakobFel: One thing I've noticed about the Steam cards as of late is that they've been more of this card stock material anyways, so it's less of a concern. Reloadable ones would be a nice option, no doubt. It'd all be so much simpler if these stupid prepaid credit cards weren't restricted to be used in the US only.
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GameRager: Yeah, dunno why a card with MC or Visa on it cannot be used in any country that accept such....seems dumb to me(well barring some exceptions like imports and exports that need to be controlled).
Yeah, I was raised to be creative and find new uses for things. It saves money and prevents excessive waste, so why not? Haha but yeah, it used to be that those cards were usable outside of the US. A couple years ago, though, all of them changed their policy and made it so you can't use them outside of the US, even if you register it, which is frustrating to say the least.
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JakobFel: Yeah, I was raised to be creative and find new uses for things. It saves money and prevents excessive waste, so why not? Haha but yeah, it used to be that those cards were usable outside of the US. A couple years ago, though, all of them changed their policy and made it so you can't use them outside of the US, even if you register it, which is frustrating to say the least.
Yup....it certainly is....hmm, now I wonder why they all did that.....maybe i'll look into it sometime for the fun of it.