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General discussionIs GOG Galaxy Stealth DRM?(285 posts)(285 posts)
(285 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 13, 2019
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clarry: Whoever implements "LAN multiplayer." If it's not actually restricted to LAN, then don't call it that. Just call it multiplayer. LAN has nothing to do with it.
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teceem: It's 2019 you know, not 1999.
All the more reason to not put "LAN" anywhere near "multiplayer."

It kinda would've made sense in the 90s when people still used crappy old protocols on networks that rarely were internet routable. Times when token rings, IPX, networking over rs232, and hubs were still talked about.

It's 20 fucking 19, packets go anywhere you want.
Post edited September 13, 2019 by clarry
Posted September 13, 2019
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teceem: It's 2019 you know, not 1999.
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clarry: All the more reason to not put "LAN" anywhere near "multiplayer."

It kinda would've made sense in the 90s when people still used crappy old protocols on networks that rarely were internet routable. Times when token rings, IPX, networking over rs232, and hubs were still talked about.

It's 20 fucking 19, packets go anywhere you want.
I get your point and recall having this discussion before, but I think you're being a bit more literal than most people who use "LAN." People are using more the connotation to invoke a time when people could play at home together with connected computers. No one is saying to get rid of online multiplayer and include LAN, or to have "LAN" require a ton of nonsensical anti-consumer hoops. People want the traditional LAN experience. Now, while I agree that it should just be considered "multiplayer," the problem is other people have different connotations of THAT term. Namely, that "multiplayer = online." I try to use the term "offline multiplayer" as sort of a catch-all to loosely represent what I want there to be, which includes traditional LAN. There is probably less "danger" of a developer misinterpreting the phrase "offline multiplayer" than of them misinterpreting the term "LAN."
Post edited September 13, 2019 by rjbuffchix
Posted September 13, 2019

People are using more the connotation to invoke a time when people could play at home together with connected computers.
Maybe developers are too? I'm not interested in that. I don't play together at home with connected computers, it's not 1999 anymore ;-). Even if I did, I wouldn't want to hear about a special mode for that. It shouldn't need that. It didn't need it in '99 and things work pretty much the same today.

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rjbuffchix: I try to use the term "offline multiplayer" as sort of a catch-all to loosely represent what I want there to be, which includes traditional LAN.
I think that term is just as bad. I have no intention of buying a multiplayer game to play it "offline." (All my computers are online 24/7) Again, the only thing it could make me think of is some sort of artificial restriction that tries to prevent you from playing it online.

How about DRM-free multiplayer, given that DRM is the topic of this topic?
Post edited September 13, 2019 by clarry
Posted September 13, 2019

People are using more the connotation to invoke a time when people could play at home together with connected computers.
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clarry: Maybe developers are too? I'm not interested in that. I don't play together at home with connected computers.
That's fine, but there are other people who would appreciate this option. Considering that it basically requires zero work to include traditional LAN modes in a game that has online multiplayer, what is your reasoning for why these people should be denied that option?

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clarry: How about DRM-free multiplayer, given that DRM is the topic of this topic?
You mean "DRM-free multiplayer" like Galaxy? Lol, three guesses why that term doesn't work. Because the meaning is too easily twisted to include DRM or at least a functional, practical equivalent of DRM (and, ironically, isn't this your same argument about "LAN" having its meaning irreparably twisted?). It is much harder to twist the meaning of "offline" and this site already uses it to describe what everyone universally considers the DRM-free ("offline backup...") installers.
Posted September 13, 2019
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clarry: I think that term is just as bad. I have no intention of buying a multiplayer game to play it "offline." ....
The term is bad because of YOUR intentions?
Posted September 13, 2019
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clarry: I think that term is just as bad. I have no intention of buying a multiplayer game to play it "offline." ....
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teceem: The term is bad because of YOUR intentions?
It is bad because it does not describe the thing we want. And then developers end up trying to implement what it describes instead of what we want. And then when we buy games, we have no fucking idea what it is that we'll get.

Right now there are games that advertise "LAN multiplayer" that has absolutely nothing to do with LAN and works anywhere just fine, online or LAN, as it should be (and they should just call it multiplayer). And then there are games with "LAN multiplayer" that does not work online just fine, because developers tried hard to put the "LAN" in it. I don't want to have them start putting "offline" in it too, Jesus Christ.
Post edited September 13, 2019 by clarry
Posted September 13, 2019
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clarry: It is bad because it does not describe the thing we want. And then developers end up trying to implement what it describes instead of what we want. And then when we buy games, we have no fucking idea what it is that we'll get.
Who's "we"?
Posted September 13, 2019
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teceem: Who's "we"?
rjbuffchix and clarry, the two who were having this discussion. Try to keep up if you're going to participate :P
Post edited September 13, 2019 by clarry
Posted September 13, 2019
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clarry: rjbuffchix and clarry, the two who were having this discussion.
rjbuffchix seems to be an individual that doesn't want to be joined at your hip. But I'll let him confirm that.
Posted September 13, 2019
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clarry: Maybe developers are too? I'm not interested in that. I don't play together at home with connected computers.
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rjbuffchix: That's fine, but there are other people who would appreciate this option. Considering that it basically requires zero work to include traditional LAN modes in a game that has online multiplayer, what is your reasoning for why these people should be denied that option?
I didn't say options should be denied. I said it should Just Work no matter whether I'm on LAN or not. In other words, they shouldn't use "LAN" as an excuse to deny the option to play online without DRM.
Post edited September 13, 2019 by clarry
Posted September 13, 2019
What I really hate? DRM-free as an excuse to not have to implement microtransactions and lootboxes. Because I love those.
Posted September 13, 2019
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clarry: rjbuffchix and clarry, the two who were having this discussion.
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teceem: rjbuffchix seems to be an individual that doesn't want to be joined at your hip. But I'll let him confirm that.
Confirmed :)

I do (like to think I) get clarry's point.

The reality is that there are games which say "LAN" that doesn't mean what I would take LAN to mean. There are also games which say "multiplayer" that may actually include what I would want, though in my experience this is usually obfuscated or not advertised at all. And, as discussed in this topic, there are even games which say "DRM-free" that doesn't mean what I (or, in my reading, FCKDRM.com too) would take "DRM-free" to mean.

Seems best to me to work with the common connotations of words, with the acknowledgement that precise language is important due to companies misconstruing the terms (sometimes this even seems purposeful imo). With that in mind, "offline multiplayer" is the best "catchphrase" I can think of that encompasses what I am looking for developers to include in games. "Offline multiplayer modes, in addition to online" is more a mouthful but also works to some degree.
Posted September 13, 2019
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teceem: rjbuffchix seems to be an individual that doesn't want to be joined at your hip. But I'll let him confirm that.
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rjbuffchix: Confirmed :)
Meh, I think we both want exactly the same thing, and can't just agree on what to call it.
Posted September 13, 2019
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rjbuffchix: Confirmed :)
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clarry: Meh, I think we both want exactly the same thing, and can't just agree on what to call it.
Perhaps, that was my impression earlier actually, but I am not sure what is so confusing for developers from "offline multiplayer." I do see what is confusing (and easily abused) by developers if customers are only demanding "multiplayer," without further clarifications of what they mean.
Posted September 13, 2019
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rjbuffchix: I am not sure what is so confusing for developers from "offline multiplayer."
The same thing that is so confusing with "LAN multiplayer": they end up interpreting it as a mode that they may artificially restrict to work only on "LAN" or "offline" (whatever it really means to them) to prevent its use for real multiplayer, and they only provide it so that they can shut up people who complain about DRM in multiplayer. They want their DRM in multiplayer, so they don't want to give a simple multiplayer mode that just works anywhere (even though that is even simpler than making an artificially restricted LAN mode). And so, like with "LAN multiplayer", we will end up with games that require you to jump through deliberately made-up hoops in order to play multiplayer without DRM. And so, like with "LAN multiplayer", when you're buying game, you have no idea what the hell "offline multiplayer" actually means. Can you actually play it online or did they try to prevent it somehow?
Post edited September 13, 2019 by clarry
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionIs GOG Galaxy Stealth DRM?(285 posts)(285 posts)
(285 posts)