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Eitot: That is precisely the problem. There is nothing else. Galaxy is DRM and GOG knows that, hence their marketing focus on ‘optional’. Galaxy is not about DRM-free gaming, it is about having an easy gaming experience like Steam and others. However, I still think that they could do better. Open source would be a start or a rich API. I vaguely remember them saying something about this, but we have none of that. Galaxy is as closed-source and restricted as Steam. I am not willing to use either, just because the software can also be downloaded DRM-free from the website.
GOG has never stated that they would release Galaxy as open source nor any part of the API codebase. They did say that they would make the API publicly available and publicly documented but that is not the same thing as making it "open source", and they've never stated a timeline on which that would occur but it presumably will only be once the API is near their first stable release.

GOG can put whatever they want to put in their API, but if game developers don't want to use it because it doesn't provide the features they are looking for in their specific game, then they aren't going to use GOG's API and the existence of Galaxy's features essentially become irrelevant for that game because the decision a developer needs to make as to whether or not to release their game on GOG becomes identical to the decision they would have to make if the Galaxy API never existed - since they wouldn't be planning on using the API anyway.

Galaxy's APIs are just that - an optional API that is available for a GOG partner to use if they desire the functionality it provides and don't want to write it themselves. Not having the API available at all, or having an API that does not do what developers want does not force developers to do what any given gamer's wet dream fantasy is ideologically, it means the game simply doesn't come to GOG at all potentially, or comes here neutered because most developers simply wont go and implement all of that functionality themselves from scratch.

If you're using Windows or Mac operating systems and/or using proprietary video drivers or other proprietary closed source components installed in your operating system, then you are already using software that is as restrictive as Steam as well. I'm willing to also bet that the source code of your motherboard BIOS, network card BIOS and other components of your system are not all open source as well. As much as I'd love to see the day when all of that stuff is 100% open source personally, that level of ideology does not match the current real world, so we either accept some compromises to our ideology and use certain software anyway even if it does not meet our ideology 100% in order to benefit from the positive side of the experiences that the software provides, or we hold on to our ideologies tightly without compromise and decide to completely do without any and all software that does not fit within our tight ideology.

The truth is, that almost all of us will and do make compromises like this. Even the most crazy open source advocates out there have computers or devices that use proprietary firmware or software in them. Even Richard Stallman, the craziest OSS nutjob in existence likely has some piece of hardware in his possession that has proprietary code running on it, even if it is just his mobile phone firmware. :)

Ideology is good to have, but when it harms our experience more than it helps by being too hardline about things then it is non-productive.
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skeletonbow: Ideology is good to have, but when it harms our experience more than it helps by being too hardline about things then it is non-productive.
Clients = malware
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skeletonbow: Even Richard Stallman, the craziest OSS nutjob in existence likely has some piece of hardware in his possession that has proprietary code running on it, even if it is just his mobile phone firmware. :)
:-)
You might just have picked the one nutjob to have managed to avoid compromise.
Last I remember, he didn't have a mobile, and his laptop had a custom OSS BIOS.


Edit: Perhaps he has a TV with non-OSS SW.
Post edited October 19, 2016 by brouer
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AlienMind: Of course Galaxy is DRM. It does not run without an account (which could get tits up in the future).
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Tyrrhia: Does you accessing .. your GOG library run without an account? Nope.
Yep. My library consists of offline installers on HDD not needing any account.
If you mean the login on gog.com. That's the login to _download_ the (hopefully DRM free) game. This login is not required to install and play the game (again if the game is DRM free). Galaxy however, is the the one login you have to even be able to _play_ the game. Two different things, the second being DRM and being used to play DRM portions of games nowadays more and more.
Post edited October 19, 2016 by AlienMind
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Tyrrhia: Does you accessing .. your GOG library run without an account? Nope.
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AlienMind: Yep. My library consists of offline installers on HDD not needing any account.
part of the product i buy at gog is support for it in a form of patches or new released episodes for purchased season passes or new content for early access games. please tell us how would you download them without the requirement to use your account.
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AlienMind: Yep. My library consists of offline installers on HDD not needing any account.
If you mean the login on gog.com. That's the login to _download_ the game. This login is not required to install and play the game. Galaxy however, is the the one login you have to even be able to _play_ the game. Two different things, the second being DRM.
You can use Galaxy just to download the offline installers of your games, too. Or just to install them and _play_ them via shortcut, not starting Galaxy at all. Only you need to be online when playing multiplayer games that use Galaxy libraries for multiplayer ;)
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brouer: :-)
You might just have picked the one nutjob to have managed to avoid compromise.
Last I remember, he didn't have a mobile, and his laptop had a custom OSS BIOS.


Edit: Perhaps he has a TV with non-OSS SW.
Or a microwave oven, digital camera, a telephone, a vehicle, the list goes on and on. If he uses the Internet then he's relying on software running on someone else's computer that uses proprietary software. :)

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hohiro: You can use Galaxy just to download the offline installers of your games, too. Or just to install them and _play_ them via shortcut, not starting Galaxy at all. Only you need to be online when playing multiplayer games that use Galaxy libraries for multiplayer ;)
What?? That's preposterous that you need to be online to play multi-player! :)
Post edited October 19, 2016 by skeletonbow
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skeletonbow: I honestly don't think anyone is going to find a more compelling superior multi-player option on any other distribution platform out there however.
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Eitot: That is precisely the problem. There is nothing else. Galaxy is DRM and GOG knows that, hence their marketing focus on ‘optional’. Galaxy is not about DRM-free gaming, it is about having an easy gaming experience like Steam and others. However, I still think that they could do better. Open source would be a start or a rich API. I vaguely remember them saying something about this, but we have none of that. Galaxy is as closed-source and restricted as Steam. I am not willing to use either, just because the software can also be downloaded DRM-free from the website.
Galaxy is not DRM.

DRM is a technological restriction on what can be done with a product post-sale. Examples include not being able to run the game without internet or the CD, or music files not being compatible with all music players. Galaxy does not do any of that. It's just a client.

I'm not a fan of Galaxy, but it's not DRM.
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Tyrrhia: Does you accessing .. your GOG library run without an account? Nope.
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AlienMind: Yep. My library consists of offline installers on HDD not needing any account.
If you mean the login on gog.com. That's the login to _download_ the (hopefully DRM free) game. This login is not required to install and play the game (again if the game is DRM free). Galaxy however, is the the one login you have to even be able to _play_ the game. Two different things, the second being DRM and being used to play DRM portions of games nowadays more and more.
You don't need Galaxy to play any GOG games. Even if you were to install games through Galaxy, you can still run them without Galaxy. The only part of games that depend on Galaxy is multiplayer in some games, and that's just like any other multiplayer/matchmaking service. Games use lots of those.
Post edited October 19, 2016 by Gilozard
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Tyrrhia: Does you accessing .. your GOG library run without an account? Nope.
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AlienMind: Yep. My library consists of offline installers on HDD not needing any account.
If you mean the login on gog.com. That's the login to _download_ the (hopefully DRM free) game. This login is not required to install and play the game (again if the game is DRM free). Galaxy however, is the the one login you have to even be able to _play_ the game. Two different things, the second being DRM and being used to play DRM portions of games nowadays more and more.
Oh, yeah? But what happened when you first started doing that? I'm pretty sure you had to log in to download and then "lock" your stuff. And what happens when you buy another game? I'm pretty sure you have to log in to download it to then keep it forever. And if you want patches? You have to log in, as well.

So, yes, it needs an account. You cannot download anything without being logged in.

And no, you don't need to use Galaxy to play games that were even installed by Galaxy itself; you can just go to their folder locations and launch their executables. And if you do decide to use Galaxy to play them, you don't even have to be logged in to do so; it will happily let you launch them without a connection to the GOG servers, except that you won't have access to online-only stuff like achievements and time-tracking.

The only thing Galaxy is required for is for games only using the convenience Galaxy APIs for multi-player because their developers didn't invest their time, money, and effort into implementing a proper multi-player (e.g. via LAN or Direct IP). That is indeed a shame, but it's not really entirely GOG's fault.
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Gilozard: Galaxy is not DRM.

DRM is a technological restriction on what can be done with a product post-sale. Examples include not being able to run the game without internet or the CD, or music files not being compatible with all music players. Galaxy does not do any of that. It's just a client.

I'm not a fan of Galaxy, but it's not DRM.
Games with GOG-only multiplayer functionality certainly are a form of TPM, given that these aspects of the game can only be used by connecting to GOG’s servers, while being logged into the GOG account of the licensee (i.e. the one who purchased the game). Even if the intention is not enforcement of copyright, it certainly has the same practical limitations for the end user.
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Gilozard: Galaxy is not DRM.

DRM is a technological restriction on what can be done with a product post-sale. Examples include not being able to run the game without internet or the CD, or music files not being compatible with all music players. Galaxy does not do any of that. It's just a client.

I'm not a fan of Galaxy, but it's not DRM.
Galaxy isn't *necessarily* DRM, but any client has the potential to be utilized as DRM.

Anyone who doesn't take exception to clients is rather foolish to take exception to DRM.
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Gilozard: DRM is a technological restriction on what can be done with a product post-sale. Examples include not being able to run the game without internet or the CD, or music files not being compatible with all music players. Galaxy does not do any of that. It's just a client.
Wrong. DRM is just a technological restriction to use product. No DRM = no restriction to use. DRM = restriction to use. Can you play multiplayer or is it restricted to specific path? No you can't, its restricted. Is multiplayer function provided by GOG or by product? its provided by product and restricted to Galaxy. There are free libraries that allow multiplayer functionality. There are free server browser services. The necessity to restrict this way is made of thin air.

When you buy music, you are often offered 10-15 seconds of it. Similarly, you get only single player featureset without Galaxy.

You can sell complete pie, but only (unlock) small part of it is available freely;
or you sell part of it, but the whole available only in restricted live authorized connected exclusive ("trusted") mode.

Regardless of approach, its the same. You can't get whole product without using very specific dedicated exclusive path. This is DRM.
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Eitot: are a form of TPM
TPM is trusted platform module. Its unrelated.
Post edited October 19, 2016 by Lin545
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Lin545: There are free libraries that allow multiplayer functionality. There are free server browser services. The necessity to restrict this way is made of thin air.

Regardless of approach, its the same. You can't get whole product without using very specific dedicated exclusive path. This is DRM.
I take the bait ;)

Show me a free library/api/SW which allows matchmaking and is also having anti-cheater functionality! (best if the SAME for MAC/linux)
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Goodaltgamer: I take the bait ;)

Show me a free library/api/SW which allows matchmaking and is also having anti-cheater functionality! (best if the SAME for MAC/linux)
"and is also having anti-cheater functionality!" should it also cook pizza?
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AlienMind: Yep. My library consists of offline installers on HDD not needing any account.
If you mean the login on gog.com. That's the login to _download_ the game. This login is not required to install and play the game. Galaxy however, is the the one login you have to even be able to _play_ the game. Two different things, the second being DRM.
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hohiro: You can use Galaxy just to download the offline installers of your games, too. Or just to install them and _play_ them via shortcut, not starting Galaxy at all. Only you need to be online when playing multiplayer games that use Galaxy libraries for multiplayer ;)
Are you suggesting that GOG couldn't make these libraries accessible to it's customers without a 3rd party client?