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General discussionIs anyone else really glad for the refund policy?(42 posts)(42 posts)
(42 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 29, 2024
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InariFoxOrrion: You strike me as somebody with a nice amount of wisdom. Idk. I just wanted to say that. You're cool.
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Timboli: Thanks for the compliment, and like all folk, I have my smart days and my not so smart days. :)
I try to keep quiet on my not-so-smart days. But that is difficult when they are the majority.

I like it on a personal level, even if when viewing it from other perspectives I have reservations about it. If two large platforms in Steam and GOG have relatively generous refund policies, there must be a benefit either financially or for their reputation, otherwise they would be as strict as they are able. I can only speculate either way, as I don't have access to internal information.

Having said that, I don't own 2000+ games. I own 44. I can probably only seriously reason to set aside money for games a few times per year, so I either have to purchase products when they are heavily discounted or I am certain I will both like and play them thoroughly. As far as I am considered, I can do all the necessary preparations, but without physically handling the product I cannot make a truly infomed decision. Typically, I am idiosyncratic and particular, so this is often a necessity. An almost instant evaluation can be made just by touching the product, rather than through the speculative noise of another. Hence why I love games that provide demos.
If, in spite of making the most informed decision I can, a product simply isn't for me, GOGs policy means that the risk associated and commitment of a purchase is removed. Great! My choice paralysis is assuaged. In the same scenario, if no refund was offered, I would simply be less likely to be a returning customer. The good-will and trust fostered between vendor and customer would be slowly eroded instead.

But that's enough about me. Am I glad to hear it? Yes, I am glad.
Posted September 29, 2024
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GamezRanker: Why would more moralistically loose gamers buy and refund to get free games when they could sail the seas and save time?
Lack of knowledge of how exactly to pirate
A perceived risk of being caught and prosecuted
To convince themselves somehow that their freeloading is not stealing to keep their conscience clear
To guarantee that the files they download haven't been tampered with
To get the most up-to-date version

Plenty of reasons. I'm not in the know but I am sure GOG support staff could add more reasons.

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GamezRanker: As for the drop in some areas of customer service quality, I don't think that was 100% because of more refunds.
No but it did coincide with it and was one of the main reasons (excuses?) imho.
Posted September 29, 2024
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SultanOfSuave: Having said that, I don't own 2000+ games. I own 44. I can probably only seriously reason to set aside money for games a few times per year, so I either have to purchase products when they are heavily discounted or I am certain I will both like and play them thoroughly.
Well, it might surprise some folk, but I've rarely paid more than $20 AUD for a game from GOG. Most in fact that I bought were below $10 AUD, and many below $5 AUD. Only a small handful have been above $20 AUD. If not for that, my list of games would be very much smaller. I have so many for two reasons, my interests are broad and I like variety, plus not all are for me, there are my three kids and their kids. I'm also retired so my finances are flexible to a degree, where I can take good advantage of discounts.
Posted September 30, 2024
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lupineshadow: I hate the refund policy, because it allows chancers to buy games and refund them without ever intending to keep them, and has created more work for GOG staff, and the introduction of the latest refund policy coincided with a steep decline in customer service here, meaning more small annoying problems persisting for longer, and GOG trying to keep the mainstream happy without managing to do so and while alienating other groups like Linux/Mac users.
A few things here.

This isn't backed by the data. General consensus is that the stricter the refund policy, the fewer "risky" purchases people make which is a net economic drain. The anecdotal experience of worse CS doesn't mean anything, and in my experience (I'm a relatively new user) it's been some of the best I've gotten from anyone and it blows Steam out of the water.

Your criticism about people buying something "without ever intending to keep" it would apply to any return policy whatsoever.
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GamezRanker: Why would more moralistically loose gamers buy and refund to get free games when they could sail the seas and save time?
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lupineshadow: Lack of knowledge of how exactly to pirate
A perceived risk of being caught and prosecuted
To convince themselves somehow that their freeloading is not stealing to keep their conscience clear
To guarantee that the files they download haven't been tampered with
To get the most up-to-date version

Plenty of reasons. I'm not in the know but I am sure GOG support staff could add more reasons.

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GamezRanker: As for the drop in some areas of customer service quality, I don't think that was 100% because of more refunds.
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lupineshadow: No but it did coincide with it and was one of the main reasons (excuses?) imho.
I'm not sure why you think conning real humans is easier than memorizing or bookmarking a URL.

So what? I'd prefer people using legal means to do business. Legality is structured and regulated, and you pay for that with efficiency. You're dismissing the inherent costs associated with normalizing piracy and other shady business practices. You're acting like it only affects the victim when their ID is stolen, for example.

This gives me the vibe it's more about personal gripes. I don't need to go over how silly it is to compare it to theft or how subjective the line will be when you draw it. I think you should consider the way GOG distributes payments and how many people are more likely to make purchases they otherwise wouldn't - some of which they will keep.

All GOG files have been tampered with. The only assurance you have is that they aren't malware but if you're relying on GOG instead of a good AV, you've got much bigger problems than the GOG refund policy.

I didn't know GOG games were always up-to-date. I must be missing something, because usually I've got to wait a few days for the patcher to become available for download. Cracks are usually done in a few days, often a few hours!
Posted September 30, 2024
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InariFoxOrrion: Legality is structured and regulated, and you pay for that with efficiency.
Except for things like often unskippable warnings/previews on movies or slowdowns/other issues with DRMd games.

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InariFoxOrrion: I'm not sure why you think conning real humans is easier than memorizing or bookmarking a URL.
A good IRL example: shady characters who frequent stores like Walmart will walk out with their "purchases" and use/resell them much more often than trying to return the items for store credit because it's safer/easier for them.

Beyond that, your post was well written and spot on :)
Post edited September 30, 2024 by GamezRanker
Posted September 30, 2024
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InariFoxOrrion: This isn't backed by the data. General consensus is that the stricter the refund policy, the fewer "risky" purchases people make which is a net economic drain. The anecdotal experience of worse CS doesn't mean anything, and in my experience (I'm a relatively new user) it's been some of the best I've gotten from anyone and it blows Steam out of the water.
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InariFoxOrrion: Anyone can think anything, the question is if it's justified. Economically, refunds are pretty much a net gain in any and all cases. That's why in a lot of countries they are legally protected: they have the reverse effect people imply.
Ok, I went back and read the summary of your linked study, and no, it does not say that refunds are a net gain in all cases.

What it does say is that a refund policy reduces the risk of purchase and may lead customers to have higher purchase intentions. But if the refund policy means that staff are tied up in dealing with refunds and can't address other issues then you are pissing off potential customers in other ways, and making them less likely to purchase things. It is not a black and white issue. See for example:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/has_gog_support_been_replaced_with_an_automated_chat_system

I suppose it does make sense economically to piss off your existing customers if you are able to replace them with new customers like yourself. But don't then go to the forums and shout about how great everything is for you, because we are all jaded and have seen the decline. You will too if you stick around long enough!

You can selectively read anything you want and feel happy to assert whatever you want, but it doesn't make it necessarily true. You would need more evidence for nearly everything you have said in this thread, and without sales data and also measuring sentiment of users here you can't say that GOG's refund policy is 100% a good thing.
Post edited September 30, 2024 by lupineshadow
Posted September 30, 2024
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lupineshadow: See for example:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/has_gog_support_been_replaced_with_an_automated_chat_system
Didn't they axe that awhile back? (I believe they did, tho I could be mistaken)

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lupineshadow: But don't then go to the forums and shout about how great everything is for you, because we are all jaded and have seen the decline. You will too if you stick around long enough!
Been there, got the shirt. Still, I feel a bit of optimism (generally speaking) goes good with such feelings now and then.
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lupineshadow: You can selectively read anything you want and feel happy to assert whatever you want, but it doesn't make it necessarily true.
The same could be said about some of the things you said earlier.
Post edited September 30, 2024 by GamezRanker
Posted September 30, 2024
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BreOl72: "The Order 1886", released in 2015.

I'm just glad, that you put at least the word "classics" in quotation marks.
But (imho) the word "old" would have deserved that same treatment.
That's 9 years ago. Maybe not OLD, but definitely not new by any standards.

However, on the subject of refund policy, the GOG one isn't actually any better than Steam and is in fact, in some cases worse. I've used both, for a few reasons, and the GOG policy is stated as 2 weeks no questions asked, 30 days at their discretion. While I have only refunded a handful of titles in 12 years on both services, for at least one, I was forced to take in-store credit for a game I had not yet downloaded outside the 2 week window here on GOG. This was a problem because of the game's compatibility on GOG and I wanted my money back to buy the game elsewhere, and I had a legitimate claim (I've never refunded for anything so frivolous as "the game isn't as good as I'd hoped").

The Steam policy is a case by case basis. I have been awarded a efund outside the nomal window when talking to a peson there because of technical reasons that did not manifest until after the 2 hour window had passed. They have also been granting refunds to people with thousands of hours in GTA Online due to the implementation of BattleEye, which Rockstar used to break Linux (and therefore by default, Steam Deck) compatibility. Not to just be praising Steam, but I've never had an issue refunding a game there. I've had an issue here. The technical support has gone way downhill, too. Since the Witcher 3 first released and GOG's user base grew exponentially, they never made the necessary changes to infgrastructure to support that growth. Have they now? Who can say. I've had simple tickets wait for over 2 weeks to be answered. That's insane.
Posted September 30, 2024
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GamezRanker: Still, I feel a bit of optimism (generally speaking) goes good with such feelings now and then.
Optimism? For a policy that has been in place for 4 and a half years? What are you expecting to change?

Why don't you go and educate yourself on how the implementation of the refund system has gone over that time?

https://www.gog.com/forum/general?search=refund
Posted September 30, 2024
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lupineshadow: Optimism? For a policy that has been in place for 4 and a half years? What are you expecting to change?
The bit of your post I replied to was talking about gog/gog forums as a whole, not just the refund system, and I was talking about being optimistic in general(beyond just gog). There's a good chance not much will change, but it never hurts to have hope.
Post edited September 30, 2024 by GamezRanker
Posted September 30, 2024
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InariFoxOrrion: Anyone can think anything, the question is if it's justified. Economically, refunds are pretty much a net gain in any and all cases. That's why in a lot of countries they are legally protected: they have the reverse effect people imply.
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lupineshadow: Ok, I went back and read the summary of your linked study, and no, it does not say that refunds are a net gain in all cases.

What it does say is that a refund policy reduces the risk of purchase and may lead customers to have higher purchase intentions. But if the refund policy means that staff are tied up in dealing with refunds and can't address other issues then you are pissing off potential customers in other ways, and making them less likely to purchase things. It is not a black and white issue. See for example:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/has_gog_support_been_replaced_with_an_automated_chat_system

I suppose it does make sense economically to piss off your existing customers if you are able to replace them with new customers like yourself. But don't then go to the forums and shout about how great everything is for you, because we are all jaded and have seen the decline. You will too if you stick around long enough!

You can selectively read anything you want and feel happy to assert whatever you want, but it doesn't make it necessarily true. You would need more evidence for nearly everything you have said in this thread, and without sales data and also measuring sentiment of users here you can't say that GOG's refund policy is 100% a good thing.
So it says the thing I said it says and you're just claiming it isn't a good thing? Why? I said it's a good thing specifically because it reduces risk aversion, which it does.

This is pure anecdote. Mom & pop shops have forgiving af refund policies, and I don't see them having issues with their customer support being drowned in paperwork. If anything, I see large corporate chains sabotaging them because they're doing too well. GOG's becoming more popular than ever, and I think that's the thing holding CS up. As for why digital ownership is becoming more important? Sony and co. have done a wonderful job publicizing the fact you don't own any of the digital media you purchase, so people are looking for alternatives.

It's strange you say that. Compare GOG's CS to Steam, Battle.net/Blizzard, Epic Games', and so on and it's still leagues better. It sounds like you forgot where the bar is for any other platform - in the depths of Hell. I don't think it's invalid to say "It used to be better" and complain about decreasing quality but from my perspective it's better than anything else I've experienced, ergo I have no reason to complain.

I never said it's 100% a good thing; every single thing, medication to law, has exceptions where it's a bad thing. We aren't tossing out vaccinations because of the rare side-effect or SLAPP law because a handful of legitimate lawsuits were dismissed. GOG's had this refund policy forever, and it's doing better than ever.
Post edited September 30, 2024 by user deleted
Posted October 01, 2024
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InariFoxOrrion: GOG's had this refund policy forever, and it's doing better than ever.
Weird thing to say considering you just joined.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionIs anyone else really glad for the refund policy?(42 posts)(42 posts)
(42 posts)