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General discussionIs All Not Well at CD Projekt Red?(127 posts)(127 posts)
(127 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 20, 2017
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te_lanus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBuoexbVEFE

an interesting video
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shmerl: Very eye opening. That can easily explain the mess that happened with the Witcher 3 Linux release.
Of course you found a way to make this about Linux :D. But I have to admit this was one of my first thoughts as well on that topic.
Posted September 20, 2017
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_ChaosFox_: It is interesting. I do suspect that there is something very wrong with the work climate at CDPR.

As a counterpoint though, I'd raise three issues:

* Like any review site, employer rating sites tend to be statistically skewed towards the "disgruntled employee" end of the spectrum. People are more likely to want to express themselves to complain than to state praise.

* Having worked freelance as a localiser for two mid-tier studios, I can confirm that crunch time - an inevitable evil of game development when you have release dates to meet - is the number one cause of employee resentment and conflict at any studio. The fact that most of these reviews came in 2015 suggests to me that there was a lot of anger over poorly managed crunch time, but this is nothing unusual.

* It's also not uncommon for major "faceless" enterprises to try and bribe their current staff into positively rating the company on employer rating websites. I've actually been asked by a couple of companies that I've worked for (not dev studios) to rate their companies higher in exchange for higher rates.

So, take this with a pinch of salt, although it may be worth Yong digging further.
don't forget not sure when it happened but iv been told about the thread wars that was going on in the gog fourms and apperntly gog at that time no one was moderating the forums.
Posted September 20, 2017
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Yepoleb: Of course you found a way to make this about Linux :D. But I have to admit this was one of my first thoughts as well on that topic.
What stood out to me, were comments like "they don't listen to their own developers" and general description of highly erratic management environment. If that's the case, I'm not surprised they completely ignored warnings from the community, about potential difficulties of making the Linux version, and need to plan things in advance.

It also explains why they experienced stuff like downgrade fiasco and didn't anticipate, that major change in the visual design (like changing color intensity) will result in a backlash.
Post edited September 20, 2017 by shmerl
Posted September 20, 2017
So company grew too fast and tackled project too big for management to manage correctly and had brute force it via number of people hired and massive overtime.

it worked but could have backfired. Presumably it worked as programmers, artists, engineers etc. were invested in the project beyond just "its my work i do to pay the bills". Especially polish staff.

that really points dark future for CP77. Not only that its going to be delayed (that pretty much guarantee) but it will result in disjointed mess as the game supposed to be even bigger than TW3.
Posted September 20, 2017
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richlind33: I suspect it is a combination of the two, but if CDPR is still hashing out a coherent design for Cyberpunk 2077, there is no question that: the performance of the chief executives is far below what should be considered acceptable; they have enough talent left to continue having some success in spite of it.
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MajicMan: Not every manager is great, and they did point out middle management is what sucks - which is possible and a team can still produce great stuff because it works well with each other and each person knows what they are doing and what they are responsible for despite a horrible department head. Also, CDPR now has more than 400 people working on their games.

As for the Cyberpunk 2077, Yong Yea he did a whole video on Cyberpunk Here in which he goes into great detail for an hour going over everything about the game. It includes a note that in 2016 CDPR was making massive changes to the RED engine to improve it for 2077. So that definitely slowed things down. You can check out that part at the 42 minute mark and keep watching for the next part as they had been working on the game. At the 51-minute mark is interesting news/rumors that all preproduction for 2077 before 2016 was binned because they moved 2077 to a new engine. That is an unconfirmed rumor, but it is possible.
It takes a heavy toll on people when they're constantly having to work harder because someone who doesn't understand what they're doing is undermining the efforts of those who do understand.

As is the case with governance, those who manage least, manage best, because those who know how to manage and are not hampered by personality issues, do not fall into the trap of creating an environment where promotions are contingent upon making your superiors look good, rather than by performing in a manner that helps to improve output and efficiency.
Posted September 20, 2017
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lukaszthegreat: ... that really points dark future for CP77. Not only that its going to be delayed (that pretty much guarantee) but it will result in disjointed mess as the game supposed to be even bigger than TW3.
I disagree somewhat. I wouldn't like to overrate the impact of some bad reviews which may hint at a general bad working climate at CDPR on the expected quality of a future game. The game can still come out superb. On the other hand everyone, even the most satisfied development team, will produce a flop every once in a while. If Cyberpunk will sink, it might still be for other reasons. Maybe even the working climate at CDPR wasn't that bad or has improved since and they are happily going forward to their goal. Again, missing news are easily interpreted as bad news which might be a bit premature.

On the other hand, it may be right. Cyberpunk may not be finished on time or may be released unpolished with bugs or may just fail to catch the interest of the players/customers. In order to reduce the risk I wouldn't have made it bigger than TW3, rather smaller or similarly big and released earlier. It seems like CDPR went in for all or nothing with a huge Cyberpunk game. This is by itself a very risky strategy. Many a fine video game development studio terminated their existence over some supposedly really great, huge project.
Post edited September 20, 2017 by Trilarion
Posted September 20, 2017
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KnightW0lf: don't forget not sure when it happened but iv been told about the thread wars that was going on in the gog fourms and apperntly gog at that time no one was moderating the forums.
It's not that no-one was monitoring - Fables and Judas were here - but the word from the men on high was apparently to take a very "hands off" approach to moderation and to only intervene in the most extreme violations. Bradley causing Arabs "savages" and infinite9 calling for the summary execution of Muslims was apparently only deemed "worthy of moderation" under rather intense pressure from the remnants of the old community.

GOG only intervened with the new ruleset when most decent folk had abandoned the forum, the community had essentially become an alt-right gaming centre and GOG gradually became associated with this. Even now, this reputation has stuck outside of the site, despite things massively improving on the forums, and many of the more prolific members who left in protest (Licurg, StingingVelvet, MichaelLeung, orcishgamer) haven't returned. Some others who reduced their presence (like Wishbone) have since been more present of late, but maybe they can say for themselves why that was.

I myself had a long "fuck this place" phase, but since the new rules have been in place, there's been a steady return to the days of old.
Post edited September 20, 2017 by _ChaosFox_
Posted September 20, 2017
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_ChaosFox_: Some others who reduced their presence (like Wishbone) have since been more present of late, but maybe they can say for themselves why that was.

I myself had a long "fuck this place" phase, but since the new rules have been in place, there's been a steady return to the days of old.
Pretty much this. I never really reduced my presence much (I've more or less constantly checked the forum on a daily basis), but I did reduce my actual participation significantly, so it's no wonder I have seemed mostly absent. There was a long period where it seemed that having a civilized discussion in here without name-calling and personal attacks was just not possible, so I chose not to participate in most threads.

Things appear to be slowly returning to a state that is, if not as good as it used to be in the "olden days" (rose-tinted glasses FTW), then at least significantly better than it was a year ago.
Posted September 20, 2017
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KnightW0lf: don't forget not sure when it happened but iv been told about the thread wars that was going on in the gog fourms and apperntly gog at that time no one was moderating the forums.
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_ChaosFox_: GOG only intervened with the new ruleset when most decent folk had abandoned the forum, the community had essentially become an alt-right gaming centre and GOG gradually became associated with this.
That was never the case.
To say so is an insult to the forums and other users who didn't flounce or try and enforce censorship by causing as much trouble as possible.
Posted September 20, 2017
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lukaszthegreat: So company grew too fast and tackled project too big for management to manage correctly and had brute force it via number of people hired and massive overtime.

it worked but could have backfired. Presumably it worked as programmers, artists, engineers etc. were invested in the project beyond just "its my work i do to pay the bills". Especially polish staff.

that really points dark future for CP77. Not only that its going to be delayed (that pretty much guarantee) but it will result in disjointed mess as the game supposed to be even bigger than TW3.
My bold.

I don't understand that mentality. What the hell does it matter how big the game is, except to show off to the press? Why not build 2077 the same size as TW3? What does it matter as long as there's enough to do? Did anyone play TW3 and say: "It's too small, i keep bouncing off the map edges."

Gah, has Star Citizen not taught anyone anything? BTW, I like SC, but that game is definitely one that suffers from feature creep.
Posted September 20, 2017
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Nemesis44UK: I don't understand that mentality. What the hell does it matter how big the game is, except to show off to the press? Why not build 2077 the same size as TW3? What does it matter as long as there's enough to do? Did anyone play TW3 and say: "It's too small, i keep bouncing off the map edges."
From what I've gathered, the issue isn't so much that it's so much bigger than Witcher 3 but that, being set in a world of towering skyscrapers, it's going to have far more vertical environments, which probably presents a certain design challenge.
Posted September 20, 2017
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_ChaosFox_: Bradley causing Arabs "savages" and infinite9 calling for the summary execution of Muslims was apparently only deemed "worthy of moderation" under rather intense pressure from the remnants of the old community.

GOG only intervened with the new ruleset when most decent folk had abandoned the forum, the community had essentially become an alt-right gaming centre and GOG gradually became associated with this.
Is the alt-right really that bad? (as in, what's wrong with GOG being associated with the right?) Unless what you're saying is that GOG should be neutral in it's entirety. Then I agree and understand.

The above mentioned individuals calling for the death of a group of people is definitely over the line. Those just sound like racists, every group has their fanaticals that should not be a representation of the whole.
Post edited September 20, 2017 by Tytus-
Posted September 20, 2017
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_ChaosFox_: many of the more prolific members who left in protest (Licurg, StingingVelvet, MichaelLeung, orcishgamer) haven't returned.
Wait, so Licurg left the forum in protest? Aw, man.
His Sacrifice shall not be forgotten.
Posted September 20, 2017
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Sanjuro: Wait, so Licurg left the forum in protest? Aw, man.
His Sacrifice shall not be forgotten.
Yup.
Posted September 20, 2017
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_ChaosFox_: many of the more prolific members who left in protest (Licurg, StingingVelvet, MichaelLeung, orcishgamer) haven't returned.
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Sanjuro: Wait, so Licurg left the forum in protest? Aw, man.
His Sacrifice shall not be forgotten.
I have to say, I find it the idea of Licurg, the guy who called me a cocroach and insulted my mother all because I didn't like the idea of GOG selling Hatred, a mass murder sim made by people associated with alt-right who later made a game about gunning down the muslim hordes invading Europe, leaving in protest of alt-right taking over the forum rather hilarious. Unless it was in protest of GOG actually moderating the forum.
Post edited September 20, 2017 by Breja
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionIs All Not Well at CD Projekt Red?(127 posts)(127 posts)
(127 posts)