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(@OP: there is a vote in this post)
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Microfish_1: Face it, we have the town on the ropes. If we find one more we win
(underlining mine)

Wait....WHAT?!?

Yeah, the above could be a mistyping/etc, but seems more like a derp- scum reveal(that a thing?) to me....and also i'm back now from my IRL errands.....as such:

Vote Micro

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Microfish_1: Whups!! :( :( :( I'm sure scum got a laugh out of that >:( I meant scum ofc.
Suuuuure ya did, matey. o.0
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Lifthrasil: Lesson learned: rules, what scum would do and what not don't apply to Yogs. He has mastered the art of WIFOM, using it to create situations where most players assume that someone HAS to be Town because 'scum would not benefit from such an action'.
Conversely though, the more I think of it. Couldn't yogsloth use precisely this kind of thing knowing you'd all happily go "oh wait micro is still sus"? The same person who'd use WIFOM to throw you all in a loop about him by claiming he's scum to get away with being actually really Mafia (Slytherin anybody?) could also use it knowing full well you'd be like "Oh by this move he'd effectively Town-clear Micro since nobody would be ballsy enough to do this play" and therefore trick you into lynching a Town Micro.

Yes it is convenient that the Bookwyrm kill lines up with some of what Micro has said about him, but it doesn't have to be because Micro really sucked at hiding his Scum motivations, it could just be a very crafty yogsloth going out with one bang of a WIFOM.
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PookaMustard: (snipped stuff about yogs and such)
While yer here: we have few players left atm, and as I said before I would mainly get behind a Micro wagon or your own wagon atm(unless shown/told good reason/proof to suspect others and change my mind). So which would you prefer for D3?

(well, we could also go for NL perhaps.....that would narrow the player pool.....besides that I dunno if a NL at this point in this particular game would be more beneficial/harmful to town. But then we might end up with one anyways if we don't make a choice at some point)
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GamezRanker: While yer here: we have few players left atm, and as I said before I would mainly get behind a Micro wagon or your own wagon atm(unless shown/told good reason/proof to suspect others and change my mind). So which would you prefer for D3?
You're asking me to choose between my own wagon (which doesn't exist at the moment by the way) or Micro's. Did you seriously expect me to say "yes yes I don't mind lynching myself"? :P

I'll join Micro ONLY if it turns out that's the only feasible wagon, but we're not in a hurry. At least I don't think so, anyway. Lift's theory makes sense in some ways but I'm not sure it's something Microfish would ever agree to doing.
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PookaMustard: You're asking me to choose between my own wagon (which doesn't exist at the moment by the way) or Micro's. Did you seriously expect me to say "yes yes I don't mind lynching myself"? :P
Well if yer scum you could pull a yogs and make this a win for town....in the spirit of the game and all ;D

Ok, jokes aside:

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PookaMustard: I'll join Micro ONLY if it turns out that's the only feasible wagon...
This is a large part of what I was asking for earlier....to see if you'd be willing to help us get a wagon through if need be.

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PookaMustard: Lift's theory makes sense in some ways but I'm not sure it's something Microfish would ever agree to doing.
Yeah, if it is the case then it'd likely be more Yogs putting Micro up to it....to Micro's likely reluctant agreement.
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PookaMustard: Yes it is convenient that the Bookwyrm kill lines up with some of what Micro has said about him, but it doesn't have to be because Micro really sucked at hiding his Scum motivations, it could just be a very crafty yogsloth going out with one bang of a WIFOM.
Sure, that is entirely possible. Yogsloth may have seen one more turn of WIFOM than I think or I may be plain wrong.

So, who is your preferred suspect now? If we assume that I'm wrong about Micro, what are your thoughts on the others?

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ettac orrazib si eman ym: Yeah, the WIFOM isn't helpful other than to demonstrate that can't really read anything about Micro's alignment from what Yogs did or said.
Exactly. Which is why I was trying to disregard what Yogs did and said and analyzed the rest. What Micro did by himself Today, most importantly.

So, what's your take on the situation? Thoughts on Micro, Pooka, GR and me?
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Lifthrasil: So, who is your preferred suspect now? If we assume that I'm wrong about Micro, what are your thoughts on the others?
I'd choose Catte. Hasn't done much to be honest and we're one day away from MyLo. I'm usually fine with him being "lurky" or whatever on D1, but I normally expect him to provide some activity here. Not really this time. So I think he's just coasting off the back of this Day.
I'll be in a meeting for a few hours. So I'll unvote for now to avoid a quick hammer. Then I'll have to have another look at the interaction between Catte and Dogmaus.

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Lifthrasil: I'll be in a meeting for a few hours. So I'll unvote for now to avoid a quick hammer.
Good idea.....i'll also be afk most of today for the holiday, and also want to avoid a hammer for a bit longer.

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Lifthrasil: Then I'll have to have another look at the interaction between Catte and Dogmaus.
Do remember to tell us your thoughts when ya get back later. :)

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Btw to all who celebrate it: Happy Thanksgiving(Turkey Day)!
=-=-=-=
The players are discussing among themselves when they hear someone adressing them from the shadows in the ceiling. Squinting, they can see in the darkness a man dressed like Batman. Or maybe Batman himself? The man says "You might need to know this", throws a batrang to the wall close to the players and moves further into the shadows, disappearing suddenly. Lift walks to the batrang and sees a note tied to it. Opening it he reads trivia about a local legend called "The Town Arsonist"
"Huh. It's saying exactly what I was about to say" says Lift, surprised.
"Look, there's something written in the back too" notices Ettac

The other side of the note reads:

1 - Microfish_1 - GamezRanker (541),
1 - ettac orrazib si eman ym - Microfish_1 (534),
0 - GamezRanker -
0 - PookaMustard -
0 - Lifthrasil -
0 - No-Lunch -

Not Voting - ettac orrazib si eman ym, PookaMustard, Lifthrasil,

Microfish_1 and Ettac are closest to elimination at 2 votes away. It takes 3 votes to do a proper lynch.

The voting phase ends in... uhhh we'd better ask Joe about that.

Pooka turns to Joppo
"I thought you'd be doing votecounts"
"Well I, uh... subcontracted?" says Joppo, wiping out a drop of sweat.
Post edited November 25, 2021 by joppo
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joppo: The players are discussing among themselves when they hear someone adressing them from the shadows in the ceiling. Squinting, they can see in the darkness a man dressed like Batman. Or maybe Batman himself? The man says "You might need to know this", throws a batrang to the wall close to the players and moves further into the shadows, disappearing suddenly. Lift walks to the batrang and sees a note tied to it. Opening it he reads trivia about a local legend called "The Town Arsonist"
"Huh. It's saying exactly what I was about to say" says Lift, surprised.
"Look, there's something written in the back too" notices Ettac
*Gr, before going to bed for awhile says the following*

"Hmm, this here is some nice flavor......maybe we should have Joppo do such flavorlicious vice modding and vote counts for more future games"
OK. Here are some musings on Catte:

In #249 Catte gives Yogs a Town reading because of Yog's early statement that his role didn't change. Arguing that scum would not know that roles didn't change. By now we know that Yog's role indeed didn't change, but his alignment did. A possibility that Catte ignored. But he stresses that the 'my role didn't change' is no Town tell for anyone else but Yogs, because Yogs was the first and 'scum now know what to claim'.

In #304 he reacts to Dogmaus' Psychoanalyst claim with: "I don't believe you. Anyone want to guess why?" ... This can be taken as a soft-claim. Which, according to what Catte later said, was. But it could also be scum having a theory but not wanting to be tied down to strongly. Scum might have had a theory at that point that there are multiple Psychoanalysts. They might have had the chance to talk to each other and, if they changed sides after Game 2, they will have known that they were Psychoanalyst in Game 1 as Town and were still Psychoanalyst after the switch to Scum. So Catte, if he is scum, might have had an idea at that point that there are multiple Psychoanalysts, but might not have been willing to reveal everything he knew. Thant might have been the reason for the vague soft claim.

Short version: would a Townie not have said "Aha! Got you! I am Psychoanalyst!" instead of making it a guessing game?

In any case, yes, I took Catte's post as soft-claim and gave Catte a Town rating, albeit weaker than GRs. But upon second reading it is compatible with a Catte=Scum theory as well. Later, in #356, he stresses the point "Why would I jump out and counterclaim if I were scum!?" ... when strictly speaking he didn't exactly "Jump out to counterclaim". Also these 'Why would I do this if I were scum' statements always sound suspicious to me.

However, in Post #402 Catte discusses that his PM didn't say that he was Town. But that there were no mention of factional kills, chat or teammates. ... At first glance, this looks like Catte got a Town PM. How else would he know that a Town PM didn't mention the word Town? ... But after re-thinking this also evaporates as Town-tell: Catte definitely got a Town-PM in Game 1. So he knows how that looked like, no matter what his alignment is now.


In Post #410 Catte suggests that we play this game as mountainous and not assume that we have any useful powers. Interestingly he states this as reaction to Microfish's stated absolute certainty that Yogs was scum.


All in all upon re-reading Catte's posts with a suspicious eye and the question in mind 'Could he be scum?' I come to the conclusion: yes, he could be. So the Town-rating I gave him is much less sure than I though before. Still, reading him as scum makes some assumptions necessary. But that's the same for everyone else.

For Micro to be scum, we have to assume that he is willing to partake in a very ballsy scum ploy.
For Catte to be scum, we have to assume that he used knowledge from Game 1 and based his soft claim on speculation
For Pooka to be scum, we have to assume that he plays a strong 'buddying up to select Townies' game.
For GR to be scum ... nah. I still don't think that scum-GR would have counterclaimed Dogmaus with such glee. So I stick to my GR=Town reading.

Going by feeling, I would still say that Micro is the scum of the three suspects I can't exclude. However, my feelings are known to get stuck (I have the tendency to tunnel). So maybe it's Catte after all. Pooka feels Towny, but I don't have a hard Town-read on him.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
May your day be full of blessings!

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Lifthrasil: For Pooka to be scum, we have to assume that he plays a strong 'buddying up to select Townies' game.
He's done this before, against me, successfully.
What would be necessary in your book for you to be scum?
O.O
O
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Lifthrasil: For Pooka to be scum, we have to assume that he plays a strong 'buddying up to select Townies' game.
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Microfish_1: He's done this before, against me, successfully.
What would be necessary in your book for you to be scum?
O.O
O
For me to be scum it would be necessary that Joe had told me so. But he told me explicitly that I'm Town this time. After I asked, just to be sure. To avoid a confusion like in the first game.

But yes, it is possible that Pooka plays the 'defend a Townie card' skillfully.
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Lifthrasil: For me to be scum it would be necessary that Joe had told me so. But he told me explicitly that I'm Town this time. After I asked, just to be sure. To avoid a confusion like in the first game.

But yes, it is possible that Pooka plays the 'defend a Townie card' skillfully.
You did too? So did I! Give me a high-five!

singing

Townies Forever, Scumzies never
Oh what a beautiful Day!
Down with the scum
We know we are town
The Mooood said soooooooooooo!