It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
high rated
avatar
Shocker650: You are missing the point. The issue is that instead of putting out games on established launchers/stores, publishers all of a suddent make new ones and they force you to use it even within Steam.
I'm not missing the point, I simply disagree with "I want to ascribe some permanent form of special privilege to Steam now and forever", which is what people really mean when they say "Forcing the need for a client is bad unless its Valve that's doing the forcing" or "why can't other 'non established' stores just die and let there be just Steam..." Same goes for the "I'll only criticise 3rd party DRM like Denuvo in Steam games, never SteamWorks DRM" cherry-picking nonsense, when 99% of the time the only reason forced clients (inc Steam) are needed (rather than a genuine choice like Playnite) is usually DRM that they only half complain about depending on whether they've been habituated into buying everything from Steam or not...
Post edited 4 days ago by AB2012
avatar
Shocker650: Is it illegal for you to tell someone that they can't smoke in your house? Nope. So why is this different? All these third party launchers do is damage Steam's reputation.
These are completely different things. First we are talkng about business rules/laws and you are talking about something between friends and family. Second there are billions of houses but just one steam which as I said will lead to problems. It is exactly the thing steam is trying to avoid - being called a monopoly.

avatar
wolfsite: I've always boiled it down to this:

"It's hard to listen to 1,000 people complaining about something when you have 100,000 people giving you money despite that something".
This summarizes it very well
Post edited 4 days ago by Hirako__
avatar
Shocker650: You are missing the point. The issue is that instead of putting out games on established launchers/stores, publishers all of a suddent make new ones and they force you to use it even within Steam.
avatar
AB2012: I'm not missing the point, I simply disagree with "I want to ascribe some permanent form of special privilege to Steam now and forever", which is what people really mean when they say "Forcing the need for a client is bad unless its Valve that's doing the forcing" or "why can't other 'non established' stores just die and let there be just Steam..." Same goes for the "I'll only criticise 3rd party DRM like Denuvo in Steam games, never SteamWorks DRM" cherry-picking nonsense, when 99% of the time the only reason forced clients (inc Steam) are needed (rather than a genuine choice like Playnite) is usually DRM that they only half complain about depending on whether they've been habituated into buying everything from Steam or not...
Steam is the best, rather you like it or not. There's a reason why it's the most successful. If it ever goes down, they will let you keep the games DRM free. So why would anyone hate it? Steam literally saved PC gaming.
Post edited 4 days ago by Shocker650
Edit: nevermind, no point wasting time on another Steam zealot.
Post edited 4 days ago by Breja
avatar
Shocker650: If it ever goes down, they will let you keep the games DRM free.
AB2012 literally facepalming like Picard as he goes to fetch the link to prove it's a load of bullshit
EDIT: Nevermind AB2012, I found it for you:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/has_gog_said_what_would_happen_to_our_games_if_it_shuts_down/post32

avatar
Shocker650: So why would anyone hate it? Steam literally saved PC gaming.
Me literally facepalming like Picard
Post edited 4 days ago by PookaMustard
avatar
Shocker650: One thing that gets me really pissed about Steam is that Valve gives every publisher the freedom to shove their garbage launchers down on gamers throats.

EA, Ubosoft, and Rockstars launchers are something I accepted because they have been around since well over a decade.
You just have to give all the other garbage launchers some time - eventually, they also will be around for well over a decade - and then you can accept them just like you accepted EA's, Ubisoft's and Rockstar's launchers.
high rated
avatar
Shocker650: Steam is the best, rather you like it or not. There's a reason why it's the most successful. If it ever goes down, they will let you keep the games DRM free. So why would anyone hate it? Steam literally saved PC gaming.
Let me just quote this for posteriority.
high rated
avatar
Shocker650: Here's the problem. They are doing it with even some of the older games. For example, the original Final Fantasy 7. It was released on Steam in 2013, and now it requires Square Enix account to play it.
It's certainly annoying but at the end of the day, forced clients are a DRM issue and if people really hate them then they need to be more vocal about that underlying cause rather than just complain about one symptom of it. Perfect example you brought up - It's crappy that another launcher was added to Bioshock, but those of us who had the DRM-Free version backed up offline never had any store client (eg, Steam) force an update that forced another client (eg, 2k launcher) into it in the first place...

avatar
Shocker650: There's a reason why it's the most successful.
Yes, forcing the need for a client until they generated a captive audience then bait and switching out discs for "Steam key in an empty cardboard box". It's only 'wrong' when someone else does it though, right?... ;-)

avatar
Shocker650: If it ever goes down, they will let you keep the games DRM free.
Debunked urban legend. Gabe never, ever "promised" anyone any DRM-Free versions if Steam closed. It's an urban myth Steam fanboys desperately want to believe is true more than it has ever been.

avatar
Shocker650: Steam literally saved PC gaming.
Not sure what you're smoking there but "Gabe = saviour of PC gaming" has always been a hilarious divorced from reality delusion. PC gaming was actually pretty healthy during 2000-2004 (Age of Empires 2, Age of Mythology, Baldur's Gate 2, Call of Duty, Civ 3, Deus Ex, Diablo 2, Doom 3, Far Cry, FEAR, Freelancer, Gothic, GTA 3, Icewind Dale, Medal of Honor, Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights, No One Lives Forever 1-2, Operation Flashpoint, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Rise of Nations, Serious Sam FE/SE, Star Wars:KOTOR, Splinter Cell, Syberia's, Tropico's, Thief 2-3, UT 2004, etc) was multi-million selling hit after hit (and count how many were new IP vs today's mindless sequelitus / remakeitus which is where I see the real decline).

Likewise, the bulk of mid 2000's AAA games didn't even arrive on Steam until 2007-2010, eg, Far Cry (2004) only arrived on Steam in April 2008, FEAR (2005) only arrived on Steam in May 2010, Oblivion (2006) only arrived on Steam in June 2009, Deus Ex (2000) took until March 2007, Serious Sam FE & SE (2001-2002) took until 2010, etc. It typically took until 2010-2012 before games were launched Steam only (eg, Dragon Age Origins (2009) and Oblivion (2006) were all on CD-ROM whilst it took until Bioshock Infinite (2012), Dragon Age: Inquisition (2014) & Skyrim (2011) until there was no disc option of the same series). Most 2000's AAA's could actually be bought only on disc until at least 2008.

Every feature that people remember "choosing in 2004" came years post-launch (2007 - Search, friends & gameplay tracking, 2008 - Steam Cloud & Achievements, 2010 - Mac support & discounts finally shown as percentages, 2011 - Steam Guard, Workshop & In-game micro-transactions, 2012 - Steam Market, Greenlight, Linux support & Walkthroughs, 2013 - Steam Family Sharing, Big Picture Mode, Game Reviews, Trading Cards, Early Access & user-created categories, 2014 - In-Home Streaming, 2015 - Refunds, etc). Far from "saving PC gaming in 2004", from 2004-2007 Steam was a barren, featureless, devoid of 3rd party AAA's, HL2 DRM-wrapper that almost no-one "wanted" to use at launch until years later...
Post edited 4 days ago by AB2012
avatar
Xeshra: Yes and the issue will not stop as long as people are accepting it...

Fact is... those games basically use a huge load of a main account linked with many other accounts... i would say in DRM terms "you are doomed". It is the whole property of Steam... the gamers may even have to beg for being able to play it at some point.

Just do not buy it... else the issue will not only remain... it will even become bloated.
avatar
Shocker650: Here's the problem. They are doing it with even some of the older games. For example, the original Final Fantasy 7. It was released on Steam in 2013, and now it requires Square Enix account to play it. If they want to ruin their newer games with this, whatever, but it's unacceptable to shove it down on older titles that never required them in the first place. 2K did the same with the Bioshick games, but luckily they removed them a few months ago. This doesn't gaurantee that Square Enix will do the same.
You can still play the original Final Fantasy 7 by using some "workaround", basically by using a custom launcher.

However, there is something that have to be taken into account, else it may not work anymore. I may put a short guide in some hours along with some background, when i got time left.

The list of "good" DRM free games on/ Steam:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/good_games_that_are_available_drmfree_but_currently_are_not_sold_on_gog/post103
Post edited 4 days ago by Xeshra
avatar
Breja: Edit: nevermind, no point wasting time on another Steam zealot.
Oh come on, you made one hell of a retort and I loved every word of it.

Also Final Fantasy 7 always required a Square Enix account since it launched on steam.
Post edited 4 days ago by PookaMustard
avatar
Shocker650: Steam literally saved PC gaming.
LMAO. "Before Half Life 2 there were no PC games at all to play. Then King Gabe I stepped out of a phone-box, his cape flapping in the wind and single-handedly saved PC gaming". I genuinely refuse to believe people actually exist who genuinely believe that.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Steam spent the first 2-3 years of its life as a glorified Half Life / Counter Strike wrapper with most people's Steam game list looking exactly like this (ie, typically 4-8 games, all made by Valve, and most of them Counter Strike mods)...
Attachments:
Post edited 4 days ago by BrianSim
avatar
AB2012: 2015 - Refunds
Which is hilarious, cause I remember everyone crying about how steam didn't offer any refunds or any streamlined process for those claiming there were refunds prior to this point.

But now that they added it, everyone's harping about it. Completely forgetting that refunds were only possible thanks to legal shenanigans IIRC, probably by the EU or some governmental entity. Maybe the real savior of PC games will be governments.
avatar
BrianSim: Meanwhile, back in the real world, Steam spent the first 2-3 years of its life as a glorified Half Life / Counter Strike wrapper with most people's Steam game list looking exactly like this (ie, typically 4-8 games, all made by Valve, and most of them Counter Strike mods)...
The amount of windows it's taking in the XP task bar... damn, it almost looks like my browser tabs. (Which I should fucking clean up)
Post edited 4 days ago by PookaMustard
avatar
PookaMustard: The amount of windows it's taking in the XP task bar... damn, it almost looks like my browser tabs. (Which I should fucking clean up)
It was hellishly buggy at the time. Imagine a Steam Client running on Internet Explorer 6 level of netcode, same era and "save gaming" it most certainly did not. ;-) I think I installed it once (and uninstalled it same day) because a friend who came over wanted to play Counter Strike. Everyone else was more into the much bigger Quake 3 / UT2004 scene at the time. And you didn't need a client to play those over a LAN... ;-)
avatar
Shocker650: Steam is the best, rather you like it or not. There's a reason why it's the most successful. If it ever goes down, they will let you keep the games DRM free. So why would anyone hate it? Steam literally saved PC gaming.
Nope.

Hello,

As we have no intentions of closing our doors anytime soon, we don't have any information at this time regarding what will happen in the event that Steam does eventually shut down.

[...]

Steam Support
Luna
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/c0rtms/what_happens_to_our_games_if_steam_shuts_down/
Post edited 4 days ago by UnashamedWeeb
avatar
Shocker650: Here's the problem. They are doing it with even some of the older games. For example, the original Final Fantasy 7. It was released on Steam in 2013, and now it requires Square Enix account to play it.
avatar
AB2012: It's certainly annoying but at the end of the day, forced clients are a DRM issue and if people really hate them then they need to be more vocal about that underlying cause rather than just complain about one symptom of it. Perfect example you brought up - It's crappy that another launcher was added to Bioshock, but those of us who had the DRM-Free version backed up offline never had any store client (eg, Steam) force an update that forced another client (eg, 2k launcher) into it in the first place...

avatar
Shocker650: There's a reason why it's the most successful.
avatar
AB2012: Yes, forcing the need for a client until they generated a captive audience then bait and switching out discs for "Steam key in an empty cardboard box". It's only 'wrong' when someone else does it though, right?... ;-)

avatar
Shocker650: If it ever goes down, they will let you keep the games DRM free.
avatar
AB2012: Debunked urban legend. Gabe never, ever "promised" anyone any DRM-Free versions if Steam closed. It's an urban myth Steam fanboys desperately want to believe is true more than it has ever been.

avatar
Shocker650: Steam literally saved PC gaming.
avatar
AB2012: Not sure what you're smoking there but "Gabe = saviour of PC gaming" has always been a hilarious divorced from reality delusion. PC gaming was actually pretty healthy during 2000-2004 (Age of Empires 2, Age of Mythology, Baldur's Gate 2, Call of Duty, Civ 3, Deus Ex, Diablo 2, Doom 3, Far Cry, FEAR, Freelancer, Gothic, GTA 3, Icewind Dale, Medal of Honor, Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights, No One Lives Forever 1-2, Operation Flashpoint, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Rise of Nations, Serious Sam FE/SE, Star Wars:KOTOR, Splinter Cell, Syberia's, Tropico's, Thief 2-3, UT 2004, etc) was multi-million selling hit after hit (and count how many were new IP vs today's mindless sequelitus / remakeitus which is where I see the real decline).

Likewise, the bulk of mid 2000's AAA games didn't even arrive on Steam until 2007-2010, eg, Far Cry (2004) only arrived on Steam in April 2008, FEAR (2005) only arrived on Steam in May 2010, Oblivion (2006) only arrived on Steam in June 2009, Deus Ex (2000) took until March 2007, Serious Sam FE & SE (2001-2002) took until 2010, etc. It typically took until 2010-2012 before games were launched Steam only (eg, Dragon Age Origins (2009) and Oblivion (2006) were all on CD-ROM whilst it took until Bioshock Infinite (2012), Dragon Age: Inquisition (2014) & Skyrim (2011) until there was no disc option of the same series). Most 2000's AAA's could actually be bought only on disc until at least 2008.

Every feature that people remember "choosing in 2004" came years post-launch (2007 - Search, friends & gameplay tracking, 2008 - Steam Cloud & Achievements, 2010 - Mac support & discounts finally shown as percentages, 2011 - Steam Guard, Workshop & In-game micro-transactions, 2012 - Steam Market, Greenlight, Linux support & Walkthroughs, 2013 - Steam Family Sharing, Big Picture Mode, Game Reviews, Trading Cards, Early Access & user-created categories, 2014 - In-Home Streaming, 2015 - Refunds, etc). Far from "saving PC gaming in 2004", from 2004-2007 Steam was a barren, featureless, devoid of 3rd party AAA's, HL2 DRM-wrapper that almost no-one "wanted" to use at launch until years later...
What if Steam would have never existed, and Games for Windows Live, would have remained the main platform for PC games? Was GOG popular enough at the time to become anywhere near a competitor? Absolutely not. I didn't used Steam before 2014, but I can tell you that the convenience of Steam was the reason why I stopped being a pirate. Having physical releases with no benefits, and not being able to play the games without a disc if you don't want to use a no disc crack, plus no discounts wouldn't have benefited PC gaming in the long run once the PS3/360 generation came.