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toroca: Hell, I still play some console games for systems that are probably older than 80% of the users on this forum! :D
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SultanOfSuave: You must have quite a magnificent display of old consoles in your possession if they outshine even the curmudgeonly old ghouls that haunt these lands.
:D
Well, I still have the SNES I received for Christmas in 1991 when I was ten, and it still works, and I still own an NES (not my original, that died in 2017 at the age of 32) and my original N64 as well. But for my oldest games I've switched to a Retron 5, since it can play NES, SNES, and Genesis games, all on one system, and the upconversion for the HDMI output actually looks all right on a 55" screen. Actually, not counting the Retron 5, the newest console I own is a Gamecube. *LOL* Haven't been willing to spend money on anything newer when I generally prefer PC gaming, even OLD PC gaming.
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vv221: That’s 100% right.

And now I’m wondering how many people skipped buying games from Humble Bundle because of such misleading wording. They used to say a Steam account is required *for Steam keys redemption*, something that was much less confusing.
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toroca: Well, if we weren't having this discussion here on GOG, I'd have never looked at Humble again because of that phrasing on their site. They really need to find a better way to state the actual requirements, because I can guarantee you it has cost them sales from at least a small percentage of gamers like myself. Not a majority, sure, but any needlessly-lost revenue matters, even moreso to the smaller players in an industry. And considering that their mission is to use some of their sales to support charities, that makes the misleading wording even more unfortunate in my mind. They're not just costing themselves, but also the people they're trying to help. The addition of just a few words would help here; they could simply say something like "Steam keys are provided for this title, as well as non-DRM offline installers for supported platforms."

So I thank you kindly for the clarification. :) This means I now have at least one other possible source for games, even if only 10% of their library falls under the DRM-free filter.
I have bought some DRM-free games from Humble successfully in the past but I can also confirm the confusing phrasing has kept me from buying several others.

Yes, they should be able to refund you but for me I felt it wasn't worth the time and energy. It reminded me of how GOG users were maintaining a list of games on Steam that could, once downloaded and installed through the client, apparently be played offline just like any other DRM-free game. Sure, I could buy various games from this list on Steam, but then if it turns out they added DRM in a recent update, I have to go through the hassle of reaching out to them, asking a refund, etc. I'd rather just support a different store that is more clear about their care in being DRM-free.

I will note that in my Humble experience (sorry), my perspective is colored by a time I tried to buy a fighting game (I believe it was entitled "Guts"), got myself hyped up I'd have a DRM-free fighting game to add to my collection, only for the download installer to be for a Demo version. Apparently, the actual full game version was only on Steam and I had paid $20 to access a demo. I do not know if this particular game's situation has been rectified, or if there are additional ones like it in the DRM-free section of which I'm just not aware. Humble refunded me without issue, but still.

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P. Zimerickus: I definitely have plenty of enjoyment even from my old system. As long as you accept the fact that modern AAA titles are out of reach, there are still plenty of amazingly fun games out there, and even some relatively recent releases are perfectly playable.
Agreed to this too. There is a tendency among many PC players (not as much on GOG) that games have to run on max settings or else "what's the point" or "you're like a console bro". To me, there's no shame in running a game in whatever settings suit you and your PC the best. A game is made to accommodate a range of graphical settings, not unlike how it accommodates gamma correction, sound volumes, etc...there is not a "perfect configuration". Just as a further illustration, iirc, Kingdom Come: Deliverance (the first one) had options for graphical settings that were meant to be used on future, higher powered machines/cards, so even the perfectionist couldn't achieve their perfection yet at that moment in time, but the game is gorgeous by my standards even on the lowest settings.
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rjbuffchix: Ah, I don't mean to rain on your parade but unfortunately I would amend that first sentence to "(especially Nintendo)." While it is true that they release cartridges, they have been going in an anti-ownership direction for several years now (the worst offender being the subscription service to play old games, with no equivalent of being able to buy them like the Virtual Console used to be).

I suspect the next step is to increase the amount of DLC, content, game modes that will only be available via their online service. In effect, the "physical" releases will be barebones (if they're not already) and much of the content will be DRMed. All these companies are the same anymore. Valve, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony; they all want to get you online as fast as possible and to rely on it for as many things as possible.
Oh definitely agree. I just see Nintendo as the least worst of the three companies (not that its much competition) in that for its first party games, Nintendo still produces physical copies. Nintendo's backward compatibility is terrible and they have implemented DLC in their single player games (BotW), nevermind their multiplayers (Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon). I suppose luckily for me, I dont have much interest in multiplayer unless its couch coop and their single player games are not barebones yet (although that could change with Switch 2). Nintendo also has a similar issue with Valve where the company could change dramatically worse once Miyamoto retires.

I also agree that no corporation is your friend. I see alot of Nintendo criticism (mostly about their war on emulation) which is why I get the impression that people already dont see Nintendo as an ally but I always see Valve as the "exception" when its just not true.

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toroca: I definitely have plenty of enjoyment even from my old system. As long as you accept the fact that modern AAA titles are out of reach, there are still plenty of amazingly fun games out there, and even some relatively recent releases are perfectly playable.
To be honest, Ive heard that even with a great PC, some modern AAA titles may still be out of reach lol. Marvel Spiderman 2 is very poorly optimized and has been considered the worst recent game released on Steam and The Last of Us Part 1 is also apparently still a poorly optimized mess thats not great on PC.
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toroca: So you're saying that even though the game description says it requires a steam account, that's not actually true if it comes up with the DRM-free filter active? If that's what you mean, then you're right, their wording is very confusing. So let me phrase this in another way to make sure I'm not misunderstanding you here; essentially you're saying Humble is just like GOG as long as the game comes up under the DRM-free filter?
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vv221: That’s 100% right.
We've gotten past this discussion now, but here's a minor and not-encouraging update. Before you had provided your answer and explanation here on GOG's forums, clarifying the confusing wording and that you could still get a non-Steam version of the games under the DRM-free filter, I had already sent an email to Humble basically saying that as long as everything required Steam I couldn't buy from them as much as I might want to, and the practical reasons for that situation.

Having then continued to discuss the issue here with you and others and learning otherwise, I assumed if I ever got a response from them, it would tell me much the same thing that you already have. Imagine my surprise, then, to get a response email from their support team today that basically boils down to "We hear your concerns and will bring them up with our staff, but can not promise any changes." They made no mention whatsoever of the ability to download installers free of Steam.

Now, it is possible that this support person is simply unaware of this, but I had already found the same answer in their FAQs myself after your initial response to me here. I went and did some searches just trying to verify what you'd said; not out of distrust of you, but just to protect myself with certainty, and although it wasn't as easy to find as it should have been, I DID find a support article basically stating the same thing you did.

I haven't made any purchases there yet, but I plan to give their site a look next month when I have a little more disposable income. If I had only looked at what their games' pages said and what their support person said in their email, I wouldn't even be considering it. I haven't decided whether I should reply to their support or not, telling them all this.
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toroca: (…) a response email from their support team today that basically boils down to "We hear your concerns and will bring them up with our staff, but can not promise any changes."
To be fair, this sounds like they did not even read your request and sent you either an automated answer, or at least a template-based one. This is in line with my previous experience with their support.

As an example, here is what I got when signalling an outdated game build:
Thank you for reaching out to us.

We appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback with us! While I can't guarantee any changes, I will definitely pass this information along to the relevant members of my team, so that we can make considerations when making future developments.

Let me know if you have any further questions or concerns to add. Thank you again for your continued support!
I then had to complain that I expected better than an automated reply to get an answer that sounded more human-powered (but still not really helpful).
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm sure the response I got was from some kind of template. It was very similar but not identical to what you posted. I got the truly-automated response almost immediately.

But the fact that it took them a week to send me a non-answer like the one I got is a bit dismaying, especially when there IS an answer to my concerns in their own FAQs, just not easy to find if you don't use the right keywords. I guess that's the part that bothered me the most; they didn't even use their own freely-available resources to address my concern. They could even have gently pointed out where the answer was, for someone like me who HADN'T already found it through your answer here or their own FAQs.

It just goes back to the point we discussed prior; how many people have skipped buying from them because of their poor word choice/page design? Even if it's a small percentage like I suspect, any money they've cheated themselves out of hurts not only their business but also the charities they support.

:)
My personal experience with Humble Bundle has been unfortunately poor. For the entire duration I receive an automated "Order Canceled Error." The idea of continually going back and forth with customer support is a tedious one. I'm sure the issue could be resolved, but that's not the point, the path of least resistance for any customer that is prevented from making a purchase is simply to do so elsewhere.
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SultanOfSuave: (…) the path of least resistance for any customer that is prevented from making a purchase is simply to do so elsewhere.
For DRM-free games there is often no such option, sadly.

If you’re lucky the game is on GOG too, if you’re very lucky it might be on itch.io… but outside of that, most of the time you simply don’t have the ability to chose between multiple stores.
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SultanOfSuave: (…) the path of least resistance for any customer that is prevented from making a purchase is simply to do so elsewhere.
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vv221: For DRM-free games there is often no such option, sadly.

If you’re lucky the game is on GOG too, if you’re very lucky it might be on itch.io… but outside of that, most of the time you simply don’t have the ability to chose between multiple stores.
I should have better clarified: for me or people in a similar position. For a new customer being granted his first computer or someone looking to quickly jump into a game with friends, the ease and wealth of choice on Steam is ideal. But I already have years of physical media no longer produced, digital games, and of course - I play alone! Should there be a barrier to entry, I have the abundance of what I currently own and what is already in GOGs library to entertain me for a lifetime. Missing out on any game is easy.
Post edited 3 days ago by SultanOfSuave
I'd choose GOG over Steam anyday, but the prices is desciding factor for me. Steam is just better with regional pricing (in my region at least). GOG prices in my region are pretty steep, I only buy here if the game I want is heavily discounted like -80% or so. Or get keys from GOG forum giveaways.