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dtgreene: Not when the thing being made illegal is actually impossible. (I'm pretty sure there are laws like that in the books somewhere.)
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amok: before I posted I tried to think about a law which it is impossible to break, and I cannot think of any. the reason for this, I assume, is that we do not need laws against impossible actions. we only need laws against possible actions. happy to be proven wrong, off course, I would really like to know laws against impossible actions.
Well, depending on your interpretations, there's all laws about magical-religious stuff (spellcating, consorting with the devil, offending gods, etc), which very objects are unlikely to be real. Of course these often condemn the practices which effects are hypothetical (like the act and intent of casting a spell even if the spell isn't a real thing, the act of disobeying a god even if the god is not a real thing, etc) but also sometimes acts and intents that are absurd by themselves (think witch trials about intercourse with the devil, or just witchcraft accusations based on a victim's bad luck and their suspicion of his neighbor).

There's certainly laws that are unreasonable or downright impossible not to break (when the complexity of legal systems that ensure people are always in a double bind, or laws that are broad enough to be applied on everyday life - these systems usually still function because there's some common sense in the use, function and application of laws, but in dictatorships they serve the power by allowing a suddenly arbitrarily rigid interpretation of them to be used against any targeted citizen at any point). And witchcraft laws can often be used as such, as witch trials sare designed to make it impossible to disprove that you didn't do the impossible thing you're accused of. But given that said thing is impossible, you could also, legally, argue that all which trials should have ended in dismissals, given that the accusation is impossible.

These are historical examples, but there's certainly vestigial laws of that ilk. And in several regions of the world, where witchcraft is still part of common everyday anxieties, such laws still apply (customary or judicial). Also laws live long, there's certainly many forgotten laws that have become impossible to break simply due to the vanishing of the technologies or practices they pertain to.

It would take a bit of digging, but these are the directions likely to offer examples.
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BreOl72: Big, fat NOPE!
You are not (neither "technically" nor otherwise) allowed to re-sell your GOG games.
If you did so, you'd be selling pirated copies.
Aka: illegal copies.
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Syphon72: I said Technically, you can resell them. Which is true.
Never said it was legal by the way.
Well, by THAT "logic" (= leaving out the LEGALITY of things one might decide to do): one can do EVERYTHING.
Sorry, but that's a really stupid argument.
CAN I grab my hammer and bash someone's head in on the street?
Of course, i CAN...

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dtgreene: Not when the thing being made illegal is actually impossible.
(I'm pretty sure there are laws like that in the books somewhere.)
Pray tell...what illegal thing that I might decide to do is "impossible" to do?

Can't wait to read your thigh-slapper of an answer.
(and spare me with bullshit answers like Telika's)

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Telika: blahblahblah
Sure.
Who knows, somewhere out there might exist a law that makes it illegal to hunt Dodos or Tyrannusaurus Rexes...but maybe we stay in the realm of rationality, huh?

Just for the sake of argument?
Think that would be possible?

Or have certain people in this forum actually reached a point, where it is impossible for them to make arguments grounded in rationality, anymore?
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dtgreene: Not when the thing being made illegal is actually impossible. (I'm pretty sure there are laws like that in the books somewhere.)
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amok: before I posted I tried to think about a law which it is impossible to break, and I cannot think of any. the reason for this, I assume, is that we do not need laws against impossible actions. we only need laws against possible actions. happy to be proven wrong, off course, I would really like to know laws against impossible actions.
You'd be surprised at what laws exist.

Just looking at:
https://www.farandwide.com/s/weird-laws-world-4961c1ede8d749bf


I see the following:
* Reincarnating without permission is illegal in China
* Killing Bigfoot in British Columbia or Washington State (even though such a being's existence has never been proven)

So, yes, laws exist that are impossible to violate.
i'am using Heroic Game Launcher as a linux user.
its working perfect on linux and you can keep using gog store.

what bothers me is that steam invests a lot in linux and using gog creates a certain uneasiness I think, it's like betraying
Post edited September 15, 2022 by SerpentObscur
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UhuruNUru: his original statement, was you own GOG Games, now that's devolved down to "… but Piracy" My point has been made.
A little common sense is needed in these arguments or they'll degenerate into obsessive nitpickity personal obsession with "What is DRM, What is ownership", etc, that ends up divorced from reality of the underlying intention of why people actually want & buy DRM-Free games in the real-world. What people really care about with buying / owning a DRM-Free collection is long-term game preservation and whether something is permanently under their control and not remotely under someone else's. That is what "I own this DRM-Free" game means in practice to many people which is far more important than technical legalese nitpicking. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has lost interest in arguing for the sake of arguing over stuff that ends up 'one level removed' from what's actually important to me.

Personally, I think the whole "if you can't resell your GOG games, you don't own them" argument gets way overblown. I can sell my 30 year old Dune CD-ROM along with many 80's-90's floppy discs (Lemmings, Elite Plus, etc, games that aren't available 'digitally' anywhere) at anytime, but I simply don't want to. I bought them because I want to play / keep them, and if I haven't sold 1980-90's games by 2022 then it's unlikely I will by 2032 or 2042 either. The difference between being able to resell 30 year old CD-ROM vs being unable to resell a GOG installer of a 30 year old game is functionally zero for me. So being unable to resell GOG games has far less impact on perceivable ownership than actually being able to continue to play them in 10, 20, 30 years time because they remain DRM-Free due to not having some remote revocation code in that would be required to handle digital resale management. Demanding the right to resell "digital" DRM-Free games is definitely one of those "Be careful of what you wish for, because you might just get it" things...

As for the on-topic point of this thread (GOG's lacking Linux support), all I can do is reiterate the points made in post 8, and simply recommend joelandsonja not wait for GOG to do stuff that the Linux community has already done, ie, try those play.it installers / Heroic Launcher out, as well as native source ports. Even for Windows, neither GOG or Steam supply a lot of this stuff (GZDoom, OpenMW, vkQuake, etc) pre-tweaked as standard and learning to tweak / mod older games is (and probably always will be) a part of of the classic gaming scene regardless of OS or how 'convenient' store clients try and make things.
Post edited September 15, 2022 by AB2012
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amok: before I posted I tried to think about a law which it is impossible to break, and I cannot think of any. the reason for this, I assume, is that we do not need laws against impossible actions. we only need laws against possible actions. happy to be proven wrong, off course, I would really like to know laws against impossible actions.
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Telika: Well, depending on your interpretations, there's all laws about magical-religious stuff (spellcating, consorting with the devil, offending gods, etc), which very objects are unlikely to be real. Of course these often condemn the practices which effects are hypothetical (like the act and intent of casting a spell even if the spell isn't a real thing, the act of disobeying a god even if the god is not a real thing, etc) but also sometimes acts and intents that are absurd by themselves (think witch trials about intercourse with the devil, or just witchcraft accusations based on a victim's bad luck and their suspicion of his neighbor).

There's certainly laws that are unreasonable or downright impossible not to break (when the complexity of legal systems that ensure people are always in a double bind, or laws that are broad enough to be applied on everyday life - these systems usually still function because there's some common sense in the use, function and application of laws, but in dictatorships they serve the power by allowing a suddenly arbitrarily rigid interpretation of them to be used against any targeted citizen at any point). And witchcraft laws can often be used as such, as witch trials sare designed to make it impossible to disprove that you didn't do the impossible thing you're accused of. But given that said thing is impossible, you could also, legally, argue that all which trials should have ended in dismissals, given that the accusation is impossible.

These are historical examples, but there's certainly vestigial laws of that ilk. And in several regions of the world, where witchcraft is still part of common everyday anxieties, such laws still apply (customary or judicial). Also laws live long, there's certainly many forgotten laws that have become impossible to break simply due to the vanishing of the technologies or practices they pertain to.

It would take a bit of digging, but these are the directions likely to offer examples.
there are laws against practicing witchcraft, they do not say that witchcraft works. so a person may practice witchcraft, though it has no effect, and therefor break the law.
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dtgreene: [...]
* Reincarnating without permission is illegal in China
* Killing Bigfoot in British Columbia or Washington State (even though such a being's existence has never been proven)
[...]
ha, yes. i will give you those

however - prove that reincarnation is not a thing, and prove that Bigfoot does not exist :)
Post edited September 15, 2022 by amok
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Wirvington: Isn't that statement a tad too nebulous? According to this article (https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/09/linux-user-share-on-steam-continues-the-slow-climb-steamos-rises/) there's around 1.2-1.3% of Steam users who game on Linux. That's a lot of people if we take into account steam.db's concurrent user data for this year, which has climbed from a figure of 25 million to an average of 27-28 aprox. The extrapolation might not be valid, sure, but still, that's a lot of people and potential user base for gog. The question is whether gog are confident they can attract those users (or some of them) to their platform when there's Steam, Lutris, or Heroic which offer more features or are more versatile than a potential galaxy linux client. So I'd argue galaxy coming to Linux isn't a matter of user base, but of value proposition.
No it's not nebulous, because I was referring to GOG not Steam. The number of Linux gamers at Steam do make it viable for Steam.

One can of course make assumptions about how many would turn away from Steam to GOG, if a Linux version of Galaxy existed, but assumptions are not facts and businesses need facts or a high degree of certainty. And as you say, Heroic etc exists, and in any case GOG do provide many Linux versions of games at GOG, just not support, and support is what I am on about. The support won't happen until it is viable for GOG ... that means employ some Linux gaming expert etc to deal with any issues. Right now, GOG leave it up to the Linux Gaming Community and DEVs. I think it unreasonable and illogical to assume GOG would not do so if there was a financial benefit incentive, rather than as seems likely a financial loss. Many of us can wish otherwise right now, but wishes don't change reality.
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amok: and again - all you are doing is justifying gOg's decision. what you fail to see is that I so far have not argued for or against Linux, as it does not matte - justifications have no impact on the point i made. However, thats is all you have done so far, and at the very best that's only very tangental to my point, if we are being very generous. You going on about it just shows that you did not understand my point. what you are basically arguing here, is that we should not take responsebility for our actions, if the action is justified enough (which is immoral).

if gOg have made a decision, then whatever the the outcome is, it is what gOg decided. gOg has so far decided to not support Linux, so gOg is not supporting Linux, and this was gOg's decision. the reasons why does not matter towards this point, for all that i care it could be because gOg does not like pink elephants. when you make a decision (no matter for what reason) then you are the one that own that decision. so in this case, gOg is to blame for not supporting Linux, as gOg decided to not support Linux (because they do not like pink elephants).

is it the word "blame" that triggers you? should I use "accountable for", "liable for", "fault", "responsable for", or any other synonym? becuse this is not rocket science, it is not even worthy of discussion. again - I am not saying anything wheter gOg should or should not support Linux, that's all uppon you. all I am saying is that gOg weighted up the pros and cons, and they decided to not support Linux. that was gOg's choice.

so all I am saying that wheter gOg support lLinux or not is gOg's decision, they can have good reasons for this, they can have bad reasons for this. and i cannot for thel life of me see how you are arguing against it, becuse the only other logical opposition to gOg making a buisess decision - is that they did not take a buisness decision. to which you have already said they do..... so Q.E.D?

(if it si not clear - you have so far not argued against my point, but against a justification for supporting Linux. if you have a valid argument against my point, then thats fine and I would like to deal with it, but if you are just going to continue with the justification for gOg's decision, then this is just becoming repetetive and pointless. I don't think I can make my point much clearer than I have done now, so if you still do not understand it then.... I don't know)
I do see the point you are trying to make, but to me it is invalid. You have things upside down and back the front. The onus is not on GOG.

What you are saying, is similar to saying that folk who don't read the Bible, for instance, are to be blamed then for not believing in God, which is incredibly ridiculous. Nothing says they have to read the Bible, and they cannot be blamed if they don't.

Blame or fault are related to doing something wrong. Accountable is related to responsible, and 'liable for' is completely out of place. GOG are not doing wrong and they are not responsible for what Linux Gamers want, so they have nothing to be accountable for.

It is pretty clear now that you and I are never going to agree on this, so it is pointless to continue, as we have already started repeating ourselves.
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Timboli: in any case GOG do provide many Linux versions of games at GOG, just not support, and support is what I am on about. The support won't happen until it is viable for GOG ... that means employ some Linux gaming expert etc to deal with any issues.
GOG provides official support for ~1 200 Linux games (not counting DLCs).
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vv221: GOG provides official support for ~1 200 Linux games (not counting DLCs).
Have you something to back that up, because last I read GOG stated they do not support Linux, and that Linux downloads are a bonus.
Providing Linux variants of games is not the same as supporting.
Post edited September 15, 2022 by Timboli
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amok: and again - all you are doing is justifying gOg's decision. what you fail to see is that I so far have not argued for or against Linux, as it does not matte - justifications have no impact on the point i made. However, thats is all you have done so far, and at the very best that's only very tangental to my point, if we are being very generous. You going on about it just shows that you did not understand my point. what you are basically arguing here, is that we should not take responsebility for our actions, if the action is justified enough (which is immoral).

if gOg have made a decision, then whatever the the outcome is, it is what gOg decided. gOg has so far decided to not support Linux, so gOg is not supporting Linux, and this was gOg's decision. the reasons why does not matter towards this point, for all that i care it could be because gOg does not like pink elephants. when you make a decision (no matter for what reason) then you are the one that own that decision. so in this case, gOg is to blame for not supporting Linux, as gOg decided to not support Linux (because they do not like pink elephants).

is it the word "blame" that triggers you? should I use "accountable for", "liable for", "fault", "responsable for", or any other synonym? becuse this is not rocket science, it is not even worthy of discussion. again - I am not saying anything wheter gOg should or should not support Linux, that's all uppon you. all I am saying is that gOg weighted up the pros and cons, and they decided to not support Linux. that was gOg's choice.

so all I am saying that wheter gOg support lLinux or not is gOg's decision, they can have good reasons for this, they can have bad reasons for this. and i cannot for thel life of me see how you are arguing against it, becuse the only other logical opposition to gOg making a buisess decision - is that they did not take a buisness decision. to which you have already said they do..... so Q.E.D?

(if it si not clear - you have so far not argued against my point, but against a justification for supporting Linux. if you have a valid argument against my point, then thats fine and I would like to deal with it, but if you are just going to continue with the justification for gOg's decision, then this is just becoming repetetive and pointless. I don't think I can make my point much clearer than I have done now, so if you still do not understand it then.... I don't know)
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Timboli: I do see the point you are trying to make, but to me it is invalid. You have things upside down and back the front. The onus is not on GOG.
yes it is. if the onus is not on gOg to make their own business decision, then who makes those decisions for them?

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Timboli: What you are saying, is similar to saying that folk who don't read the Bible, for instance, are to be blamed then for not believing in God, which is incredibly ridiculous. Nothing says they have to read the Bible, and they cannot be blamed if they don't.
bad analogy. gOg is making their own choice based on their understanding of the market, they do not make it because they do not understand the market (or they should understand it). again, this goes towards justification of the choice, not wheter they have made a choice or not.

and when it comes to beliving in God, this is not a choice. this comes down to personal beliefs (so your own epistomology and ontology), not choice. this is nothing like making a buisness decision at all.

(fun fact - what many atheists have said that turned them away from Christianity, was reading the bible :))

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Timboli: Blame or fault are related to doing something wrong. Accountable is related to responsible, and 'liable for' is completely out of place. GOG are not doing wrong and they are not responsible for what Linux Gamers want, so they have nothing to be accountable for.
perhaps, depends on how you see it. lets say "responible" then, as there can be no value judgement there.

gOg is the one responisble for there not being any Linux support on gOg.

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Timboli: It is pretty clear now that you and I are never going to agree on this, so it is pointless to continue, as we have already started repeating ourselves.
indeed
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amok: .....
I stand by all I've said, and will now leave it up to others to make their own minds up.

It is important to get other points of view out there, but there is never going to be 100% agreement for everyone, that's life.

Unless there is a solid foundation to go negative, I prefer to go positive ... as in the glass half full, not half empty.
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vv221: GOG provides official support for ~1 200 Linux games (not counting DLCs).
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Timboli: Have you something to back that up
Each time I try to buy a GOG game with no official Linux support, an obvious warning is displayed at checkout so I know that it will not be supported on my system. Of course, no such warning is displayed when I buy a game that is supported on Linux.

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Timboli: last I read GOG stated they do not support Linux, and that Linux downloads are a bonus.
You most probably mistook an information about a specific game (a couple ones come with unsupported Linux builds), and conflated it with GOG general Linux support. All games listed here come with support on Linux.

As you can see there, games like Godhood that come with an unsupported Linux installer are not listed.
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Syphon72: I said Technically, you can resell them. Which is true.
Never said it was legal by the way.
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BreOl72: Well, by THAT "logic" (= leaving out the LEGALITY of things one might decide to do): one can do EVERYTHING.
Sorry, but that's a really stupid argument.
CAN I grab my hammer and bash someone's head in on the street?
Of course, i CAN...
Your comparing reselling games to bashing someone head in? But my argument is stupid? I just point out you can sell your games which is right. To say you do not own something because you cannot not sell it is bad argument ,but okay.

You see to be getting heated over this thread.
Post edited September 15, 2022 by Syphon72
Linux programs are great when you have the source available. I've built ancient Unix programs from the 80s with very minimal tweaks.

For binary only programs, Linux compatibility is still a bit of a mess across distros. Especially backwards compatibility. (Not as bad as 32-bitters on MacOS, but still...)
And to be honest, even if there are native Linux version, I nearly always go for the Windows version in Wine if I want to run a game on Linux, as that's usually the quickest to get running.
Hell, some of the older games that are glitchy on Windows 10+, run just fine in Wine.

IMHO, DRM free, off-line installers of Windows versions seem far more future-proof than native Linux versions with DRM.