I used to love this game so much, but the economic system has pretty much broken me. I used to think that complexity was always a good thing in strategy games, but this game has made me come to the stance that it isn't. The micromanagement in this game is so overwhelming that it just drains all the fun from the game, 90% of the time when playing you are figuring out how to build up your planets, population, housing, amenities, employement, whether you have enough food, consumer goods, metal, that you have enough of the strategic resources to power your buildings etc.

The most fun part about this game are the battles, diplomacy, special projects and all that, but all that is completely overwhelmed by how much time you need to spend keeping your economy in check, when you have 20+ planets in late game it becomes a nightmare.

I actually prefer the old versions of Stellaris where the economy and planet management was more simple and intuitive.

RIP Stellaris I'll miss you

Every new DLC they add to this DLC-platform, only ruins the game. But it's not about making a good game after all. For Paradox today, it's all about money.

So expect more pointless DLC with a nice covers and a beautiful trailers, where DLC actually adds new colorful buttons witch will add a +1 here, and +2 there.

DLC actually ruined this game, and other PD games. It's mass-production at this point. There's no love for the work, sadly.

I used to play Stellaris, CKII, EUIV, HOI4, etc... I have over 600 hours in each game. But those soulless DLC made me lose any love or interest in this games. :(

Micromanagement in general is one of the reasons why I was never really hooked by 4x games (another being that I simply don't like turn-based strategy very much, which is a shame, really), and the DLCs are one of the reasons I never even started a Paradox game. I have CK2 from some bundle, but no DLCs. And I don't intend to buy any.

Thats disheartening to read. I was actually looking forward for a complete edition when they where done with the dlcs in a few years. I mean as it is its a big nono; 4X is the worst genre for DLC trickles as I have found out the hard way (yes, I'm talking about you *points at Galactic Civilizations 3*); but I always envisioned it must be glorious when it should be complete.

That's why I and any type of 4X/strategy/management/sim never got started in the first place.

You kind of describe why I am pretty much done with Paradox. You buy a single player game from them, and they can redisgn the fundamental nature of the game. So if you like what was released, you can end up with something quite different and something that you do not like. Additionally, you might need to buy some DLC to truly complete it.

Well, CKII is still kind of ok. This game in my opinion, is the best Paradox game. But complete game today is around 300$ :/

And I agree about Galactic Civilizations 3. Been waiting for a reasonable discount or something, but the price is still too high for the complete game. And one of the DLC was added to the main game for free on steam, but not on GOG. So another reason not to buy it.

You actually do really need the DLC. Otherwise the AI will have the options and bonuses that you wont have since you don't own the DLC. Sort of forcing you to buy them. Also the insane amount of grayed-out buttons all over the UI that you can't click, because you don't own the DLC.

Stellaris is a unique example, I've played quite a few 4X games and none are as overcomplicated and fiddly as Stellaris, I just don't understand why a game about exploring the unknown and space diplomacy has to have such an autistic economic system, the game is seriously more of a managerial business sim game than a sci-fi 4X, it's weird.

Ever tried Endless Space 2? It's not that micro intensive. The only negatives seem to be that the AI is pretty weak, so it's one of those 4X's where it might be better to play on the hardest difficulty. Well, and depending on how you look at it you don't have much control over space battles, but unexpectedly that's hasn't bothered me.

I've been wanting to try out Stellaris for a long time, but reading about the performance drop late game has kept me away. After Endless Space if I'm again in the mood for a 4X I'll probably check out Imperium Galacitca 2 instead. I recall that being quite excellent.

Though some of CK2's DLCs are ridiculous (extra models, extra portraits, customize first ruler, ...) I'm finding myself extremely satisfied with the game overall. I only grabbed a couple of the 'essential' expansion DLCs on special, which in total cost less than a typical new release. Given that I'll probably spend hundreds of hours in it (as is), apart from the dozens already spent in it, that's a pretty good deal I feel.
But yes, some of the DLCs really ought to be free given the large number of proper DLCs already available, and that does detract from the game. This is just ridiculous.

The rules for economical sims / 4X / strategy / puzzle games should always be: easy to learn, easy to get comfortable playing successfully, but hard to master. The problem is that most games of these types, keep introducing new mechanics to the point that you get bored of the game before you learn and get comfortable with all of them. I think, that's why the term "busy work" started being used for games, at least that's how I use it.

But it's "hard to learn, impossible to master", because the volume to learn is so huge and convoluted. That's the problem, I think everybody would be ok with that, if it was because of the high level play required to be successful.

That is why I like simpler 4x games like Master of Orion 2. I feel like it has the perfect balance of micromanagement and other stuff. Map is not gigantic, there are not 294 things you need to keep a track of, and I really like the ship building system.