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timppu: I use Mint instead of Ubuntu because Mint doesn't try to push me to use snaps etc. like Ubuntu does. Mint is like the cleaned and sanitized version of Ubuntu.

Ubuntu has been adopting all the wrong ideas from Windows, and Canonical apparently thinks it is the Microsoft of Linux. At some point Canonical suggested Ubuntu shouldn't be called "Linux" but that it is an OS of its own.
Why go further downsteam instead of going upstream to Debian instead?
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Orkhepaj: dont all linux users change their distro once a year?:O
I thought that is mandatory
No, I've been using Fedora since Barry was US President.
Post edited July 18, 2022 by Darvond
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rojimboo: ...
It's a bit of a stretch to categorise the Linux community as toxic based on one man's mental distress in the past. It's certainly not evidence or documented evidence of it. A far stretch from "scientific"...
I am a scientist and this subject is not open to debate. It's a universally accepted doctrine among scientists that when a verdict is agreed upon by a subject, all the rest cases following the same principles can be declared as such. I believe in law, this is called " precedent applies".

So everyone who bases their toxicity on Linus's previous actions in the Linux community automatically can be categorized as such. This is how science and law work. If it hadn't, we wouldn't be able to come up with all those empirical formulas.

So it is not a stretch, it is a fact and how logic works.

You can also make a quick internet search and come across thousands of articles analyzing why the Linux community is the way it is. So your personal experience has absolutely no value on the grand scale.

I am a Linux user. Have been using Linux one way or another since 1996 and I love it. But the first step of solving a problem is acknowledging that there's one. And you can't do that by ignoring universal facts, analysis, and hundreds of thousands of data.
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Darvond: Why go further downsteam instead of going upstream to Debian instead?
https://linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

Yes I've tried that too, but didn't see much of benefit.

For many of us being on the bleeding edge with new (buggy) features etc. is not that important, as long as it is not insecure, and works nicely on the intended target machine.

I've mentioned countless times that I used to use Fedora a long time ago, but left it because using it really felt like being a beta tester of a buggy future RHEL.

Oh and I am not a big fan of Red Hat/IBM nowadays either, after what they did to CentOS 8. They are starting to be as bad as Canonical. If I wanted to use a RHEL-family OS, it would most probably be Rocky Linux which seems like a viable true successor to CentOS. I'm already using Rocky Linux at our work, running our monitoring software on Rocky 8.
Post edited July 18, 2022 by timppu
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Engerek01: I am a scientist and this subject is not open to debate. It's a universally accepted doctrine among scientists...
Turkish scientists don't debate? Ok.

In real science, there are generally no such things as "consensus" or that something is not open to debate. In science, ANYTHING is open to debate. In the end, all that matters is proof, which makes some scientific theories more plausible than others.

Unless you are talking about some intersectional feminist dance theory "science"...
Post edited July 18, 2022 by timppu
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Engerek01: I am a scientist and this subject is not open to debate.
Wow.

I hate to inform you but you are not a scientist by your own words.
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timppu: I've mentioned countless times that I used to use Fedora a long time ago, but left it because using it really felt like being a beta tester of a buggy future RHEL.
Give it another try. I haven't used it that long, I think since Fedora 25 or so but I've never thought of it as anything but stable.
Post edited July 18, 2022 by lupineshadow
low rated
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ssling: Why is EVERY thread about Linux ALWAYS derailing into distro-war? xD
Biting Orkie's baits doesn't help. And he/she baits quite often, to the point you can see him/her baiting in every Linux-related thread as long as he/she isn't temporarily banned.
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Engerek01: snip
Besides all that, if for some reason the OP can't install the games, he/she can run unzip followed by the name of the installer (since GOG's Linux installers are just fancy ZIP files) and try to run either the game's executable, the file start.sh (which should be a common file for all Linux games on GOG), or even run the game in an external emulator/wrapper, if that's possible (like if the OP wants to run a game powered by DOSBox or ScummVM nowadays).
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Engerek01: I am a scientist and this subject is not open to debate. It's a universally accepted doctrine among scientists that when a verdict is agreed upon by a subject, all the rest cases following the same principles can be declared as such. I believe in law, this is called " precedent applies".
I think you'd be surprised at my credentials, peer-reviewed papers and their impact factor. I'm sorry but this is just to set the scene, seeing as your appeal to authority and expertise arguments seem to demand so and you wouldn't listen to mere argumentation from "non-experts" or "non-scientists" clearly. Which in itself is a bit sad. You shouldn't look at people's credentials first, merely their argumentation.

To read what you just wrote about the scientific method, hurts me. Almost physically. You have so misconstrued science, that it is perverted beyond any recognition. In fact, you might as well have been describing Abrahamic religion and dogma, instead of science and rational skepticism. Let me deconstruct what you have done and described.

Your main theory (as opposed to a hypothesis) is that based on some (non-disclosed) data, everyone who agrees or idolises Linus Torvalds, a mentally distressed/ill/symptomatic person of renown and influence, is also "toxic" and exhibits traits similar to his. Your basis for this theory (it's moved beyond hypothesis in your case for reasons unknown) is that everyone who "follows the same path, practices the same behaviour in the same regard" can be categorised as "toxic", seeing as Linus described himself so. Therefore, as a psychiatrist diagnosed Linus as mentally ill, anyone who acts similarly to Linus or ascribes to, must also be. Your evidence for this is of course an argument, a "theory" (which you actually treat as a hard fact"): Linus is toxic and mentally ill, therefore his followers must be toxic and mentally ill. What is your empirical data to corroborate this? None that I'm aware. Not even the anecdotal "oh, in my experience I've encountered many toxic Linux users", which would actually count as data (though not very scientific).

The thing is, you need to have started with a hypothesis that you attempted to strengthen with some evidence (usually empirical data, but could also be qualitative) - or the other way around, found data from which you drew a hypothesis. Then you need to have seriously and critically considered your meagre hypothesis with all kinds of counter-argumentation and criticism. If the hypothesis could not be disproven, it would have become a very exalted coveted thing - a theory. This theory, given enough time and effort of trying to disprove it, would eventually become fact (see tectonic plates, evolution etc.) with mutually exclusive evidence pointing in the same direction and no credible theory or fact to contradict it. For quite some time, maybe decades even. So you see, science is the tool with which you attempt to poke holes at your own imagined superlative ironclad hypotheses (which they are not, of course). You are first a total skeptic and no fun at parties, before you believe in anything.

To connect two random dots in such a haphazard way, call it "scientific", "law", "not open to debate", "fact" and "logic", is a complete perversion of the actual scientific method.

Let me demolish your entire hypothesis (because that's what it truly is, not a theory, and certainly not fact) - the Linux community cannot be considered toxic based on Linus' mental issues because there are contradicting data points out there where people who agree with Linus are also non-toxic. Done, simple as that. I don't need to prove empirically in a peer reviewed paper that such people exist - we both know this to be the case (even if they might not be numerous).

Furthermore, there are many deficiencies in your hypothesis! If Linus calls himself "toxic", can his definition be applied to the community? What is Linus' definition of toxic? Is he an authority on psychology that he can classify such things? No, he is not. In fact, since you are adamant of his mental problems (without credible proof that I could find) existing, how can we trust Linus' self-assertion about himself being toxic? After all, he is mentally ill in some form or another, and certainly not an expert or an authority on the matter. In addition, what is the % at which you can deem the Linux community as toxic (whatever definition you want to utilise for that term)? As this is not defined, surely you cannot assert "the Linux community must be toxic as they idolise Linus". Is it simply a majority? More than 50%? Where is your evidence for this? Where is the data for this? I could go on, but suffice to say there are so many gaping holes in your hypothesis, it just doesn't hold water.

I agree though, you can call the Linux community toxic if you like - nobody would bat an eye, and many would agree. *However* you cannot call it a scientifically documented fact. That's absurd!

Based on your incorrect interpretation of the scientific method, I can only conclude you do not know what the hell you are on about. The only thing you got right was that in Law there seems to be some kind of conception of "precedence" as a source of Law. But this is not at all applicable here, we are not in a court room and such legal notions do not hold in science or in the physical world.

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Engerek01: I am a Linux user. Have been using Linux one way or another since 1996 and I love it. But the first step of solving a problem is acknowledging that there's one. And you can't do that by ignoring universal facts, analysis, and hundreds of thousands of data.
What universal facts? What analysis? What "hundreds of thousands" of data?

I too am a Linux user for some years now, exclusively, and a Linux gamer. I also consider Linus to have admirable qualities, even if he is totally unprofessional, rude, obnoxious and probably a total c#nt at parties. The mere fact that the Linux Kernel developers/project had no code of conduct in effect, just a very dubious code of conflict, speaks to how awful that work environment was. Yet, many people see his value and good qualities, and are certainly not "toxic".
is fedora better than debian?
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rojimboo: I too am a Linux user for some years now, exclusively, and a Linux gamer. I also consider Linus to have admirable qualities, even if he is totally unprofessional, rude, obnoxious and probably a total c#nt at parties. The mere fact that the Linux Kernel developers/project had no code of conduct in effect, just a very dubious code of conflict, speaks to how awful that work environment was. Yet, many people see his value and good qualities, and are certainly not "toxic".
Are you sure we're not mixing up RMS and Torvalds?
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Orkhepaj: is fedora better than debian?
Use cases, dear. Linux is talor made, Windows attempts to be one size fits all.

I like fresh software and testing new technologies, and I'm really not fond of stale packages when upstream has newer. PPAs are irksome in concept to me because they lead back to the old problem of going to Uncle MIlton's Software barn and hoping he has the right thing you need.
Post edited July 18, 2022 by Darvond
thanks guys.. your hints work. now i play funny old shooter blake stone in ubuntu and it seems to be just problemless!

changing downloaded file to executable (in its properties) and then ./filename.sh in terminal was enouugh in this case..

we are simply golden community :c)
Post edited July 18, 2022 by flanner
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rojimboo: ...
I am no longer surprised to see these kinds of situations now, especially after what Trump did to the world. When he was president of the USA, he said Covid was a lie and openly bullied people not to use masks. Then he and his entire family got infected with Covid.

The same person openly rejects climate change, which has thousands of effects daily.

Unfortunetely, rejecting available evidence and facts became meaningless in this century. And the entire world is paying the price. You can, of course, enjoy your ignorance and prefer to live in your perfect dream world while the planet is burning, literally.
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Engerek01: I am a scientist and this subject is not open to debate. It's a universally accepted doctrine among scientists...
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timppu: Turkish scientists don't debate? Ok.

In real science, there are generally no such things as "consensus" or that something is not open to debate. In science, ANYTHING is open to debate. In the end, all that matters is proof, which makes some scientific theories more plausible than others.

Unless you are talking about some intersectional feminist dance theory "science"...
I understand that you failed to grasp my words. I am not accustomed to debating with ordinary people.

Science, as you tried to mention in your primitive way, is always open to discussion, debate, and questions. But the steps to achieve those points are not. You can't out of nowhere come sand say "hey, humans can fly". You need evidence and follow the logical steps.

Like I said earlier, you have every right to follow your wild imagination and create your own scientific laws. But don't expect anyone in the world to take them seriously until they are proven worthy.

Because a scientist's (and generally all smart people's) primary difference between other people on the street is their ability to distinguish assumptions from facts. Knowing what you don't know is the key.

And apparently, you don't know what you don't know and it shows wildly.
Post edited July 19, 2022 by Engerek01
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Engerek01: I am no longer surprised to see these kinds of situations now, especially after what Trump did to the world. When he was president of the USA, he said Covid was a lie and openly bullied people not to use masks. Then he and his entire family got infected with Covid.

The same person openly rejects climate change, which has thousands of effects daily.

Unfortunetely, rejecting available evidence and facts became meaningless in this century. And the entire world is paying the price. You can, of course, enjoy your ignorance and prefer to live in your perfect dream world while the planet is burning, literally.
What the hell is this? Are you sure you replied to the right person? What is this weird tangent off to Trump and climate change denialism?

In case you didn't notice, you replied to the person who exposed your lack of science and the scientific method knowledge. I pray you are not actually a scientist, because that would mean a colossal waste of time on your part, not being able to ever pass peer-review on any of your papers since you have no idea how science works.

I mean, the only thing I can think of that relates me to climate change, is my quote "THere is no Planet B". But this is in fact the opposite of opposing anthropogenic climate change, it affirms the tenet "we did this, we are screwed unless we fix it and change our ways". Otherwise, I have no idea why you would bring up Trump.

Care to expand?

What about my other comments about the scientific method? Aren't you even going to acknowledge them?
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Engerek01: I understand that you failed to grasp my words. I am not accustomed to debating with ordinary people.
Excuse us, Your Eminence, but our primitive ways necessitate a certain simplistic use of language when conversing with people. After all, why be clear when you can obfuscate everything?

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Engerek01: Science, as you tried to mention in your primitive way, is always open to discussion, debate, and questions. But the steps to achieve those points are not. You can't out of nowhere come sand say "hey, humans can fly". You need evidence and follow the logical steps.
You don't seem to know what those steps are though...why are you lecturing people about something you have no idea about?

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Engerek01: And apparently, you don't know what you don't know and it shows wildly.
The lack of self-awareness is breathtaking. Please look in the mirror, mate :)
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Engerek01: I understand that you failed to grasp my words. I am not accustomed to debating with ordinary people.
There is nothing "scientific" about claiming that alleged "mental problems" of Linus Torvalds are somehow relevant to Linux community on the whole. Claiming so just proves you are a hack, and not a scientist at all.

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Orkhepaj: is fedora better than debian?
If you want the latest features and support (like using brand new hardware and want the very latest version of software coming directly from the distro repositories, and not from external repositories), then yes.

If you are going to e.g. create web server and need stability and long-term support, then probably no.

I have lots of clients who ask me to create all sorts of Linux servers for various purposes, and so far no one has requested for a Fedora server. The most requested ones are the latest LTS Ubuntu Server, or RHEL 8 family server (if they want to cheap out ie. not pay for a RHEL license, nowadays it would be either Oracle Linux 8, Rocky Linux 8 or Alma Linux 8; earlier it would be CentOS but IBM/RedHat practically killed it off).

Naturally it also matters that most clients are most familiar with either Ubuntu or RHEL, and that is why they request them the most. We have set up a few Debian servers in the past, one OpenSUSE Linux server, and even at least one (Free?)BSD server (not a Linux, but close enough). No ArchLinux or Manjaro servers for example. And no Linux Mint servers either, but in the server world I guess they don't offer anything over Ubuntu or Debian, the differences of Mint are more meaningful for home desktop usage.
Post edited July 21, 2022 by timppu
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lupineshadow: Give it another try. I haven't used it that long, I think since Fedora 25 or so but I've never thought of it as anything but stable.
If it is still basically the bleeding-edge beta test version of a future RHEL release, then I'd rather not.

I don't know if something has changed, but due to the fact above, when I last used it and took a brand new Fedore release in use:
- At first it was really buggy and unstable.
- It kept getting lots of updates, and bit by bit it became more stable and usable.
- Quite soon after becoming stable, RedHat released it as a proper stable RHEL release, and stopped supporting that stable Fedore version, after which you were supposed to upgrade to yet another unstable buggy Fedore version.

That was enough for me, I have better things to do with my freetime than acting as a free betatester for the latest Fedora version, which IBM/RedHat will later release as a commercial RHEL release. I rather use CentOS, or nowadays Rocky Linux, which is the unofficial free version of the latest stable RHEL release.

In home use I rather use Linux Mint though (the Ubuntu derivative) because I feel they concentrate more on features and usability that matters to home users and especially gamers, compared to e.g. RHEL and its free-of-charge derivatives, even if I am sure they can be used for Linux gaming as well.

What I do like about the RHEL family though is that their "long term support" versions seem to be supported for much longer than Ubuntu LTS versions. That is why I earlier chose Rocky Linux 8 instead of the latest Ubuntu LTS for certain monitoring server (running OMD/CheckMK monitoring software) because Rocky Linux 8 support was promised for many more years, without having to upgrade to the next long-term support release.
Post edited July 21, 2022 by timppu