Randalator: You say it's one license, I say it's two. It's even two technically different products, one of which I didn't want to begin with. Randalator: Of course it's different, because the Steam key I give away can be used only once unlike the DRM free version which could be duplicated unlimitedly.

ForgetDeny: They've also confirmed that if Steam buckles as a company, all purchased games will be detached from the Steamworks infrastructure, allowing continued use by purchasers.

Randalator: You say it's one license, I say it's two. It's even two technically different products, one of which I didn't want to begin with. Randalator: Of course it's different, because the Steam key I give away can be used only once unlike the DRM free version which could be duplicated unlimitedly.

ForgetDeny: So what's with the hate? Just cos? Sure seems that way. Don't get me wrong, I love GOG's resolutely anti-drm stance, but the hate leveled at Steam here would really be better leveled at services like Uplay, GFWL and Origin - which routinely screw people over - not Steam, which routinely demonstrates that even though it could, it wont, because ethics.

Fenixp: What you are just saying now is that piracy is charity - both duplicating licences and pirating game constitutes breaking TOS.

Randalator: You say it's one license, I say it's two. It's even two technically different products, one of which I didn't want to begin with. Randalator: Of course it's different, because the Steam key I give away can be used only once unlike the DRM free version which could be duplicated unlimitedly.

ForgetDeny: There's a lot of misinformation here. You can run most Steam games perfectly fine in offline mode, you don't need a persistent internet connection, you just need access for installation and patch releases. The installation part is a convenience for those of us with reliable internet connections, and online patch releases have been industry standard since the internet became a normalised thing. There have been issues with people being booted from offline mode, but Valve have confirmed that this is a bug (that they are working to correct), not intentional, and that it should be possible to remain in offline mode indefinitely. Most games also allow you to turn off the steam browser (this is a developer choice). Steam routinely has ridiculously cheap prices, and I've had nothing but positive interactions with their tech support. They've also confirmed that if Steam buckles as a company, all purchased games will be detached from the Steamworks infrastructure, allowing continued use by purchasers.

So what's with the hate? Just cos? Sure seems that way. Don't get me wrong, I love GOG's resolutely anti-drm stance, but the hate leveled at Steam here would really be better leveled at services like Uplay, GFWL and Origin - which routinely screw people over - not Steam, which routinely demonstrates that even though it could, it wont, because ethics.

Coelocanth: How does Origin 'routinely' screw people over? I've had nothing but good experiences with it. For me, it works better than Steam when there are internet connection problems, actually. Just curious what issues you're referring to here.

Fenixp: HIB claims it's one license and you have absolutely no say in the matter. You have agreed to TOS. You are breaking it. This is damaging HIB. Congratulations, you are now exploiting the best distribution service out there!

Darvond: In the context of the inquiry, they were asking what it means when one gives a code or a copy of a game that one might find redundant. As I've mentioned, I don't have steam, what good are the codes to me? I'd gladly give the codes to someone else.

Coelocanth: Haven't they now stated it's okay to gift your Steam keys? Or is that just for games you already own on Steam?

Fenixp: They actually said so at one point on discuttion boards. Not exactly official confirmation.

ForgetDeny: I can barely ever successfully log in to my Origin account and didn't even get a response to the multiple messages that I sent to the support team. I've basically given up even trying at this point. I only signed up because of the EA Humble a while ago, and now absolutely regret this act.

Fenixp: As far as I understand it, now they're trying to push a system where you can only gift the entire game, not just the Steam code - we'll see with the next DRM-free bundle, but it would make sence.

Coelocanth: Well, I can see why you're sour on the service. My experience has been much different. I have no troubles with the client, and the pair of issues I had to go to support for were handled in a timely fashion. Hell, they even threw in a couple discount vouchers for my troubles. Don't get me wrong though, the client isn't anywhere near perfect, as I can think of a number of improvements they could apply, But while I understand why you dislike the client (and I would as well if I had the same problems) I wouldn't say your personal issues with Origin mean it 'routinely screws people over'. That's a pretty wide net to be casting, unless there are a great number of people experiencing the same things.
Coelocanth: Ah, yes, that would be a more logical approach for them.

ForgetDeny: I would agree that my anecdote alone doesn't count as "routinely", I simply only gave it because I didn't feel like ferreting out sources and links to demonstrate that it's a common issue. I apologise for my laziness. I'll see if I can find the forum threads that I wound up trawling through for hours, filled with people complaining about the same issues without any resolution offered.