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General discussionHide porngames from the store(226 posts)(226 posts)
(226 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 07, 2022
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JuWalk: And where is the balance in this case? One side says "I play what I like, you play what you like. And just let's not interfere with each other." Another: "Don't play this and that! Here's a list of games I've approved, you can play them. Everything else is forbidden." Whose rights and freedoms are violated by people sitting at home and playing any games?
You're twisting things again. No-one has said 'Here's a list of games I approve, everything else is forbidden.' It's more like, one side is saying 'Let's stop treating women like objects.' While the other side is saying 'It's okay to treat women like objects because I like it, so just deal with it.'

GOG features loads of porn games where the women is severely underdressed, and her oversized privates are bursting out of a very revealing costume. I don't see any games on GOG featuring the man's oversized package bursting out of tiny pants? Where is the balance?

And it's kinda hard to 'just ignore' these games, like some of you have said. When GOG adds another porn game, it is featured on the front page, with screenshots.
Post edited October 07, 2022 by FrodoBaggins
Posted October 07, 2022
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FrodoBaggins: I don't see any games on GOG featuring the man's oversized package bursting out of tiny pants? Where is the balance?
Well, if more people are willing to pay for that, you will see that plenty. And I don't mind.

I didn't have anything about the guys in Baywatch, nothing against Tom Cruise and his friends being baby oiled playing Volleyball, nothing against Conan, Tarzan or the many Barbarians in games only wearing trunks and maybe boots.

Btw, the story in BADIK starts off with the player running around naked for a while after he got busted and the sorority sisters took his clothes. Later in the story he has to run around with a dildo hat for a while getting all types of comments.

And Larry Laffer? In Larry 7 he loses his clothes more than once, and every time someone catches him and makes comments about his junk. In other games he gets in such situation as well, but Larry 7 brings this to a new level.

We get what we are willing to pay for. This is not about objectifying anyone, but to earn money on a market. The 'balance' comes, once more people want to pay for it.

ps: If you know such games which you want to see on GOG, put them on the community wishlist and see if there's a good response.
Post edited October 07, 2022 by neumi5694
Posted October 07, 2022
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foad01: Really? I probably see something else here in the past posts. It is a general discussion about porn games where some people want the censorship of said games they don't like. Like dozens of news threads this one here got also derailed with this discussion. And the answer to this was posted by Gersen.

Ignore it! Move on! Let the people who want to play these games have their fun!
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HappyPunkPotato: You do see something else, I only remember one person wanting banning/censorship because of potential harm caused by said games not some people just because they don't like them.
I find it very interesting that whenever there's talk about potential harm caused by games, it's never about the games that are literal health hazards because they can cause seizures. Because I can get migraines over seizure graphics, I am hyper aware of the issue and that it's extremely rare for a game's page on any storefront to give you the warning before you purchase it. Usually the warning only comes on a screen that shows up after you run the game for the first time.


The people who only experience emotional distress over the mere existence of a porn game get a warning if they accidentally click on the store page of one: "This game contains mature content recommended only for ages 18+" They can safely close the browser window or click away elsewhere while avoiding the continue button. It's not like an effort is made to hide the fact that a game has pornographic content where they only get a warning after they have purchased the game and go to run it for the first time.
Posted October 07, 2022
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HappyPunkPotato: You do see something else, I only remember one person wanting banning/censorship because of potential harm caused by said games not some people just because they don't like them.
Yes, and and at this point

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/hide_porngames_from_the_store/post94

this thread started to get derailed and triggered the recent discussion. This is usually what you also see in the news threads of these games. It only needs one comment and you have this discussion. And the original topic (the game or in this case the hide button) plays no role anymore.

I read older threads like this one here and the way it is discussed is really not good. People are attacking each other. Some of them don't accept different opinions or are simply disrespectful. You can really see the passive aggressiveness in some posts. It is also partially visible in some posts in this thread (see for example the stupidity comment).

Not liking certain things is one thing. But the answer to this is not banning or censoring things left and right.

Probably some people here need to think how easy it is to see far worse things than some silly games in a games store. It doesn't take much and you can see a video how someone murders a person with a hammer and it is actually real! There is also a video where a woman was hunted, beaten, spilled with gasoline, and then burned to death. I am not joking here. And due the recent world events you can see really gruesome stuff even on Twitter. Corpses, mass graves, etc. It just takes a few clicks and you see this stuff.

We are talking about some silly games here. It is far from being really important.
Post edited October 07, 2022 by foad01
Posted October 07, 2022
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Catventurer: I find it very interesting that whenever there's talk about potential harm caused by games, it's never about the games that are literal health hazards because they can cause seizures. Because I can get migraines over seizure graphics, I am hyper aware of the issue and that it's extremely rare for a game's page on any storefront to give you the warning before you purchase it. Usually the warning only comes on a screen that shows up after you run the game for the first time.
That's a very good point! Surely "This game might give you a seizure" is more important than "This game has cloud saves" or the vast majority of other stuff on the product page.

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foad01: ...
A lot of the off-topic seems to be my fault too because I keep inspiring people to tell me why banning games is bad and that people should just ignore them :) I generally agree with your post except I wouldn't want to dismiss something that someone finds distressing just because there's worse things out there.
Posted October 08, 2022
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FrodoBaggins: Huge thanks to HappyPunkPotato for defending me \ my position.

As has been said, there's a huge difference between simply not liking a game (and I have never suggested banning games that I don't like), and games that are actually designed to degrade women and treat us like objects.

You can try and twist things as much as you like, JuWalk. You may or may not like puzzle games or platformers or whatever. The fact remains that porn games are designed to objectify women.
False. I won't even get into the debate further. Everyone cries victimhood these days. Are you personally being degraded or treated as an object? Nope. It's always the ones who aren't being bothered with the loudest voices of opposition. Everyone who is living is objectified. It's called human attraction or repulsion. It works at the physical level. Next we'll be wanting to ban beauty pageants because they are evil. lol The whole human dynamic is centered around the physical. Only in this day and age is it called objectifying and demeaning. You certainly did call for banning things that you don't like. You have no concrete proof other than personal assertion that this is bad or immoral in any way. It boils down to your feelings rather than fact.
Post edited October 08, 2022 by JoaoPauloZA
Posted October 08, 2022
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JuWalk: And where is the balance in this case? One side says "I play what I like, you play what you like. And just let's not interfere with each other." Another: "Don't play this and that! Here's a list of games I've approved, you can play them. Everything else is forbidden." Whose rights and freedoms are violated by people sitting at home and playing any games?
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FrodoBaggins: You're twisting things again. No-one has said 'Here's a list of games I approve, everything else is forbidden.' It's more like, one side is saying 'Let's stop treating women like objects.' While the other side is saying 'It's okay to treat women like objects because I like it, so just deal with it.'

GOG features loads of porn games where the women is severely underdressed, and her oversized privates are bursting out of a very revealing costume. I don't see any games on GOG featuring the man's oversized package bursting out of tiny pants? Where is the balance?

And it's kinda hard to 'just ignore' these games, like some of you have said. When GOG adds another porn game, it is featured on the front page, with screenshots.
Complain to them. They exist. Hell, you should say I demand the uncensored version of Great Deceiver which is female domination of a male character. They give him drugs, one of which greatly increases the size of his penis. These women make him do all kinds of disgusting things and I bet that pleases the hell out of you.

Also, I'm more for Sauron than Frodo. But to each their own. Alexa, play Unleashed, "We Must Join With Him."
Post edited October 08, 2022 by TheGrimLord
Posted October 08, 2022
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JuWalk: "Don't play this and that! Here's a list of games I've approved, you can play them. Everything else is forbidden."
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HappyPunkPotato: It's more like "Don't play these specific games because they are harmful to society".
Not "they are harmful to society", but "it seems to me that they are harmful to society". This is a very important detail. Are there any serious studies proving the danger of these games? No. Are these games illegal? In most countries, no. That is, from the arguments for the ban of these games - only the personal feelings of a small number of users. Trying to ban something for everyone simply on the basis of personal feelings is an irrational and vicious practice.

The requirement to introduce the ability to filter them personally for yourself - yes, it's a good thing. But, again, in order to be fairer, it is necessary to require the ability to filter out any genres (I remember that we agree on this opinion). The requirement not to show them anywhere by default is already quite controversial. In most cases, nothing obscene is shown directly on the banners. And to see something else, you must first overcome the warning that the content there is not for children. If someone doesn't like such content, but they still visit the pages of such games, the problem is definitely not in the games. And the demand for the complete removal of such games is completely banal sabotage. I've already cited the example of shooter games that people regularly try to blame for the violence going on in IRL. These are exactly the same allegations as in the case of porn games. Will it be good if, on their basis, all shooters will be removed from GoG, Steam and other stores? I don't think so


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neumi5694: snip
I completely agree



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FrodoBaggins: You're twisting things again. No-one has said 'Here's a list of games I approve, everything else is forbidden.' It's more like, one side is saying 'Let's stop treating women like objects.' While the other side is saying 'It's okay to treat women like objects because I like it, so just deal with it.'
And you're lying again. "I don't approve of these games, so they should be removed" - that's exactly "Only play games that I approve".
The fact that you personally see objectification in games doesn't mean at all that this is how things are. There are thousands of women who enjoy such games, and millions of those who simply don't care about the existence of such games. What, you mean they all like to be "objects" and "accessories"? And you alone, on a white horse and in a white cloak, are fighting for all these "fools who do not understand the source of all their troubles"?) Don Quixote of the digital age...

And also the statement "the other side is saying 'It's okay to treat women like objects because I like it, so just deal with it.'" is an insult and slander, implying that everyone who likes porn games doesn't treat women as equals. Finally, learn to distinguish between games and reality. The pixels on the screen can be treated as you like. You can have sex with them, you can kill them, you can fly to their planet and arrange total genocide, while formally still remaining a good guy who does it out of good intentions. But this doesn't mean at all that all this can be done in real life. If someone behaves in real life as in games, the problem is not in games, but in problems with the psyche of this person, and such people should be dealt with by specialists, because they are dangerous to society. Yes, for the whole society. Each of us has a mother, many have sisters, and hardly anyone would like them to face something in real life that is absolutely normal for games. Just as we would not want anyone to be a victim of shooting, although in games shooting people is absolutely normal and even good. It is for the simple reason that games and reality are completely different worlds.

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FrodoBaggins: GOG features loads of porn games where the women is severely underdressed, and her oversized privates are bursting out of a very revealing costume. I don't see any games on GOG featuring the man's oversized package bursting out of tiny pants? Where is the balance?
The fact that these games are not (yet) on GoG doesn't mean at all that they don't exist. There will be demand - there will be supply. In case you didn't know, that's how capitalism works

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FrodoBaggins: And it's kinda hard to 'just ignore' these games, like some of you have said. When GOG adds another porn game, it is featured on the front page, with screenshots.
Screenshots are shown on the game page, not on the main page. So why are you purposefully going to a porn game page, ignoring the pop-up warning, if you don't want to see this kind of content?) Is this some new kind of masochism?


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Catventurer: I find it very interesting that whenever there's talk about potential harm caused by games, it's never about the games that are literal health hazards because they can cause seizures. Because I can get migraines over seizure graphics, I am hyper aware of the issue and that it's extremely rare for a game's page on any storefront to give you the warning before you purchase it. Usually the warning only comes on a screen that shows up after you run the game for the first time.
This, by the way, is also very well noticed. Moreover, there are games that do not warn about this even after the launch! But who cares? After all, the main thing in this life is not to let one bunch of pixels copulate with another bunch of pixels :D
Posted October 08, 2022
If you hide these trashy software titles behind a curtain, wouldn't that pique more peoples interest?
Human curiosity and all.
Posted October 08, 2022
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windows984ever: If you hide these trashy software titles behind a curtain, wouldn't that pique more peoples interest?
Human curiosity and all.
Trashy? Oh, hush you. And no. I don't think that it would. People who go to the adult section would be there because they wanted to be there. People who want regular games will be here for regular games. Judging by the strong opinions from the moral police, I do not think many people on that end would get "curious." Rather, they'd be pleased "the trash is in the back, where it belongs."
Post edited October 08, 2022 by TheGrimLord
Posted October 08, 2022
So, what's the sensible option when you want to give a recommendation about where to buy games, but don't want to make a recommendation that can be interpreted by the moral police to be endorsing certain subgenres of the adult section that GOG have previously put in the centre of their window display? Suggest the DRM-free store that might put anything in their window display, or the DRM-encumbered store keeps the adult stuff behind the rather-obvious curtain?

The reason why people making recommendations should worry about it, along with my answer to "why don't you worry about games where the protagonist is a murderer" is in https://www.gog.com/forum/general/hide_porngames_from_the_store/post57 .
Posted October 08, 2022
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windows984ever: If you hide these trashy software titles behind a curtain, wouldn't that pique more peoples interest?
Human curiosity and all.
First we would need to nominate a person who desides what's trash and what not.
But since GOG claims that all their games are hand picked, we can assume they don't consider any of them being trash.

And these games are already behind a disclaimer. The only thing you can see on the front page is a banner.

Again ... a configurabe filter would be best.
Posted October 08, 2022
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JuWalk: ...
FrodoBaggins only made three posts and no-one else (who posted) wanted to ban anything yet there's been all of this backlash. What makes you so sure that there aren't millions of women out there affected by porn games? I'm not in anyway saying these two things are the same, but we all know victims of real life abuse often don't speak out due to thinking they won't be believed, they are on their own, what happend was their own fault. I've had a look back over the thread and if you were a woman who was concerned about porn games how likely would you be to speak up when faced with this:

Having words put in your mouth:
"And what about women who play porn games? Are they traitors and disgusting too?"
"How is it that sex is a much more terrible and forbidden crime than theft, murder, cannibalism and genocide?"
"Don't play this and that! Here's a list of games I've approved, you can play them. Everything else is forbidden."

Being generally insulted:
"cry about people oppressing fictional characters"
"we have enough brains to separate reality and fiction"
"some people have sooo much free time and boooring lives..."
"start crying on the forums about how these terrible games ruin our lives"
"The fact that someone judges the entire genre by the worst examples is just a clear indicator of the stupidity of a person."
"And those who demand a ban for all users of the game that they personally don't like for any reason - let them just go to hell"
"A bit unfair punishment for those already in hell..."
"on a white horse and in a white cloak, are fighting for all these "fools who do not understand the source of all their troubles"?) Don Quixote of the digital age"
"learn to distinguish between games and reality."

Being dismissed:
"Those poor exploited women though. Poor all of them. I feel for them. lol"
"And for the sake of their witch hunt"
"If you don't like a piece of media, think it somehow "harms" you, or that it goes against whatever belief you might have"
"Even if it was true, who care ?"
"There are games that objectify men, but we do not make a problem out of this."
"If you find that game X or Y degrade women, men, dogs or aliens and you don't like it, just play another one there are tons of games here or on Steam that are probably more suited for you."
"Ignore it! Move on! Let the people who want to play these games have their fun!"
"We are talking about some silly games here. It is far from being really important."
"Everyone cries victimhood these days."
"In the end it's all a question of "like" and "don't like"."
"the ones who aren't being bothered"
"The fact that you personally see objectification in games doesn't mean at all that this is how things are."

Accused of lying:
"the only difference is the excuse used to try to justify it."
"BS excuses used by all those wanting to censor music, D&D, books, movies, video games, adult content, etc... they always have a "good reason" in their mind but it all boils down to "I don't like / am offended by something therefore nobody should be able to enjoy it"."
"mental gymnastic peoples might pull out"
"This statement is nothing more than a lie."
"And you're lying again."

You're on your own:
"And many girls are absolutely calm about the existence of porn games."
"only the personal feelings of a small number of users"
"There are thousands of women who enjoy such games, and millions of those who simply don't care about the existence of such games."
"And you alone"

It's your own fault:
"the problem is not in games, but in the minds of those who really want to be offended by something"
"Maybe the problem is not in the games, but in someone's head"
"It's your problem so it's you responsibility to avoid it and "protect" yourself from it."

Also, you keep saying that objectification of women doesn't exist just because FrodoBaggins sees it but then you say that there's lots of objectification of men too. Make your mind up.

On a slighhtly different note, the question of why violence in games isn't bad is frequently brought up. Violence in games is usually done to men but it's also usually done by men. Porn tends to feature women as only there for the pleasure of men. Perhaps that's why it feels more personal and "us versus them".
Posted October 08, 2022
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TheGrimLord: I said this the first time they started adding them. It's been a year or more since then. GOG knows people want it, they just don't care.
It's been much longer than that.
Leisure Suit Larry, including the original game called "Softporn Adventure", has been here for years.

Technically speaking they are certain kind of porn, because the whole concept is about getting laid, and they even show some nudity and such.

What has changed more recently is that there is more "nukige" kind of content and other more explicit material.

Which of course leads to the question...
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lupineshadow: Who decides what a porngame is?
...which is a good question.

If such a definition would exist, having something like Leisure Suit Larry on either side of the definition would be problematic.

It's "too adult" not to be included there, but it's too non-erotic to be with real pornographic games.

I suppose the best answer would be adding some new tags, like "sex", "violence", "foul language" and age limits, to all games and have that somehow systematically, so it would be easy to include or exclude certain kinds of games when browsing the store.

Having a completely separate section, like MangaGamer or whatever, would turn out to be very problematic, IMHO.
Post edited October 08, 2022 by PixelBoy
Posted October 08, 2022
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HappyPunkPotato: FrodoBaggins only made three posts and no-one else (who posted) wanted to ban anything yet there's been all of this backlash.
Yep if you go to a video game forum and post "I want video game X or Y to be banned" it might end up being a controversial topic... surprisingly.

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HappyPunkPotato: What makes you so sure that there aren't millions of women out there affected by porn games?
Affected how ? What makes you sure that there aren't billions of men affected by sport games or walking simulator ? let's ban those too just in case.

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HappyPunkPotato: I'm not in anyway saying these two things are the same, but we all know victims of real life abuse often don't speak out due to thinking they won't be believed, they are on their own, what happend was their own fault.
If it's not the same then why do you mention it ?

What has the fact that some woman (or men) victim of real abuse are not always believed has to do with peoples arguing about video game censorship on a video game forum ?

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HappyPunkPotato: I've had a look back over the thread and if you were a woman who was concerned about porn games how likely would you be to speak up when faced with this:
Being "concerned" is one thing, wanting an outright ban is another altogether. And again it's a forum, as in a discussion forum, for whatever you post there are going to be peoples agreeing with you and other who don't. Nothing wrong with that, if peoples are not ready for that then either they stop reading the thread or don't post in the first place.

Also you are the only one pulling the gender card, whenever you or FrodoBaggins are woman or not is totally irrelevant. It's an argument between peoples who want X being banned and peoples who don't, there has been similar "backlash" when men wanted to ban video games too (Last time I checked Jack Thompson wasn't and still isn't a woman).
Post edited October 08, 2022 by Gersen
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionHide porngames from the store(226 posts)(226 posts)
(226 posts)