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General discussionHere's a message from a real GOG gamer. Release Devotion.(228 posts)(228 posts)
(228 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 22, 2020
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kohlrak: Other than it being a total pain to navigate, what's the problem with itch?
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ReynardFox: The problem with itch beyond the atrocious website design is that is primarily a dumping ground for indie projects with no quality control at all, as it stands it's not much better than an app store, with only a handful of actually worthwhile games and absolutely no support from any major players. That's also the reputation it has earned, so it's unlikely to ever really change.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, though. I mean, sure, most of it's trash, but that no curation stance makes it a perfect place to find things that would be hard to find if pubs shoved it there. There are some rough gems in there (like the momodora series, two other games by the same dev are on this platform [Momodora 4, and Minoria]).

The thing i don't like about it is, well, i saw some devs are charging for demos there. So, the price!=quality rule is very, very important for navigating. However, if you have a good advertising campaign, that's a GREAT place, because if you know what it's called, you can find it there.

EDIT: Also, i'm the kind of guy that thinks GOG and Steam are atrocious, too. Google Play Store is UGLY, but not bad enough to be atrocious. Sometimes you just gotta deal with what works.
Post edited December 22, 2020 by kohlrak
Posted December 22, 2020
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kohlrak: I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, though. I mean, sure, most of it's trash, but that no curation stance makes it a perfect place to find things that would be hard to find if pubs shoved it there. There are some rough gems in there (like the momodora series, two other games by the same dev are on this platform [Momodora 4, and Minoria]).

The thing i don't like about it is, well, i saw some devs are charging for demos there. So, the price!=quality rule is very, very important for navigating. However, if you have a good advertising campaign, that's a GREAT place, because if you know what it's called, you can find it there.

EDIT: Also, i'm the kind of guy that thinks GOG and Steam are atrocious, too. Google Play Store is UGLY, but not bad enough to be atrocious. Sometimes you just gotta deal with what works.
Itch.io has carved out it's own little niche, and as you say it's not a bad thing in its own way, but it's not really a site that's ever going to be able to be a viable GOG alternative. At least that's how I see it.

Steam's website is dreck, and GOG's website isn't much better I agree, and far worse since the 10th anniversary renovation botch-job. Around here it's just been 'put up with the crap UI because it's only the games that really matter'.
Post edited December 22, 2020 by ReynardFox
Posted December 22, 2020
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kohlrak: I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, though. I mean, sure, most of it's trash, but that no curation stance makes it a perfect place to find things that would be hard to find if pubs shoved it there. There are some rough gems in there (like the momodora series, two other games by the same dev are on this platform [Momodora 4, and Minoria]).

The thing i don't like about it is, well, i saw some devs are charging for demos there. So, the price!=quality rule is very, very important for navigating. However, if you have a good advertising campaign, that's a GREAT place, because if you know what it's called, you can find it there.

EDIT: Also, i'm the kind of guy that thinks GOG and Steam are atrocious, too. Google Play Store is UGLY, but not bad enough to be atrocious. Sometimes you just gotta deal with what works.
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ReynardFox: Itch.io has carved out it's own little niche, and as you say it's not a bad thing in its own way, but it's not really a site that's ever going to be able to be a viable GOG alternative. At least that's how I see it.

Steam's website is dreck, and GOG's website isn't much better I agree, and far worse since the 10th anniversary renovation botch-job. Around here it's just been 'put up with the crap UI because it's only the games that really matter'.
Precisely. So it boils down to, everything but itch is just barely passable.
Posted December 22, 2020
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mrkgnao: The reason I added my definition is because I am not aware of any formal agreed-upon definitive definition. If there is one, could you please post it here. If you know of some useful heuristic test (of the type "if you have to do X or Y, then the game has DRM"), please post it as well.
I would lean on a definition that enjoys a broad consensus, for example from Wikipedia, although i admit the Wikipedia entry is perhaps less of a definition and more of an explanation.

To get the main CP2077 game, all I need to do is enter my GOG account, download the installers once and I can play the game for all eternity, installing it as many times as I want. This will not give me what has been termed "My Rewards", because while they are found within the installer, they are locked (it's not too difficult to crack this lock, but that's hardly the point).
As far as i can tell, the rewards are not included in the purchase price of the game. The fact that the data for the "rewards" might be part of the overall data/file package of the game does not automatically mean you are entitled to those "rewards" just due to their mere existence.

Butt as you noted, the presence of the "rewards" data in the installer can make it possible to find (unauthorized, inofficial) ways to activate them.

To get "My Rewards" I am forced to perform an additional step of logging in via galaxy. This has to be done every time I install the game (possibly every time I begin a new character). If galaxy servers are unavailable, I cannot access "My Rewards" on a new installation, short of cracking the artificial lock.
You got a strong point there regarding the activation of the rewards when installing the game (again?) some day in the future. Unless the developer/publisher includes automatic activation of the rewards as part of a future update (including for the offline installer), this is indeed a point of concern.
Posted December 22, 2020
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mrkgnao: The reason I added my definition is because I am not aware of any formal agreed-upon definitive definition. If there is one, could you please post it here. If you know of some useful heuristic test (of the type "if you have to do X or Y, then the game has DRM"), please post it as well.
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elgonzo: I would lean on a definition that enjoys a broad consensus, for example from Wikipedia, although i admit the Wikipedia entry is perhaps less of a definition and more of an explanation.

To get the main CP2077 game, all I need to do is enter my GOG account, download the installers once and I can play the game for all eternity, installing it as many times as I want. This will not give me what has been termed "My Rewards", because while they are found within the installer, they are locked (it's not too difficult to crack this lock, but that's hardly the point).
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elgonzo: As far as i can tell, the rewards are not included in the purchase price of the game. The fact that the data for the "rewards" might be part of the overall data/file package of the game does not automatically mean you are entitled to those "rewards" just due to their mere existence.

Butt as you noted, the presence of the "rewards" data in the installer can make it possible to find (unauthorized, inofficial) ways to activate them.

To get "My Rewards" I am forced to perform an additional step of logging in via galaxy. This has to be done every time I install the game (possibly every time I begin a new character). If galaxy servers are unavailable, I cannot access "My Rewards" on a new installation, short of cracking the artificial lock.
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elgonzo: You got a strong point there regarding the activation of the rewards when installing the game (again?) some day in the future. Unless the developer/publisher includes automatic activation of the rewards as part of a future update (including for the offline installer), this is indeed a point of concern.
It seems we are more or less in agreement, except that for me, in regards to GOG, the "point of concern" has come and gone back in 2015 or 2016. I am currently at the "point of utter disappointment", quickly approaching the "point of hope of liquidation".
Posted December 23, 2020
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elgonzo: I would lean on a definition that enjoys a broad consensus, for example from Wikipedia, although i admit the Wikipedia entry is perhaps less of a definition and more of an explanation.

As far as i can tell, the rewards are not included in the purchase price of the game. The fact that the data for the "rewards" might be part of the overall data/file package of the game does not automatically mean you are entitled to those "rewards" just due to their mere existence.

Butt as you noted, the presence of the "rewards" data in the installer can make it possible to find (unauthorized, inofficial) ways to activate them.

You got a strong point there regarding the activation of the rewards when installing the game (again?) some day in the future. Unless the developer/publisher includes automatic activation of the rewards as part of a future update (including for the offline installer), this is indeed a point of concern.
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mrkgnao: It seems we are more or less in agreement, except that for me, in regards to GOG, the "point of concern" has come and gone back in 2015 or 2016. I am currently at the "point of utter disappointment", quickly approaching the "point of hope of liquidation".
Part of me hopes it not only happens, but also happens via this talk of a lawsuit. If we can tie GOG's abandonment of it's core values to it's dimise, it sends a message to other platforms, especially to whomever replaces GOG.

However, the rest of me is glad that this isn't very likely. So far it's elements that can be hacked in that are getting DRMed.

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elgonzo: As far as i can tell, the rewards are not included in the purchase price of the game. The fact that the data for the "rewards" might be part of the overall data/file package of the game does not automatically mean you are entitled to those "rewards" just due to their mere existence.

Butt as you noted, the presence of the "rewards" data in the installer can make it possible to find (unauthorized, inofficial) ways to activate them.
I would argue that it does automatically include such. Why does my purchase include data for content that i'm not permitted to have? This is dead weight on my computer's hard drive, and my bandwidth when downloading it. Fortunately, i don't have the game to begin with, but this would be the case if i did. While the data is insignificant compared to the rest of the game that is useful, it wouldn't be too hard to make a case that this is adware. Take it a step further, and GOG is installing a virus.
Post edited December 23, 2020 by kohlrak
Posted December 23, 2020
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ReynardFox: That though is all on CDPR, all eyes are on their failure, not on GOG's ethics violations, so I could see them bouncing back, taking responsibility for the game's mistakes whilst still sweeping the rest of the issues under the rug and ignoring them.
I mean financially speaking, CDP/CDPR's financial situation affects GOG as well....so even if not everyone stops buying from GOG(or buys less) to protest the Devotion issue, the financial impact from both issues combined should send a clear message to CDP/CDPR/GOG that the customer should be treated better.
Posted December 23, 2020
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ReynardFox: That though is all on CDPR, all eyes are on their failure, not on GOG's ethics violations, so I could see them bouncing back, taking responsibility for the game's mistakes whilst still sweeping the rest of the issues under the rug and ignoring them.
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GamezRanker: I mean financially speaking, CDP/CDPR's financial situation affects GOG as well....so even if not everyone stops buying from GOG(or buys less) to protest the Devotion issue, the financial impact from both issues combined should send a clear message to CDP/CDPR/GOG that the customer should be treated better.
I get where you're coming from, and given a better company that would seem the logical conclusion... but given GOG's track record, whether it's cognitive dissonance or just annoyance with an old crowd who won't change for them, I don't expect they'll acknowledge their faults outside Cyberpunk. GOG have developed a short sighted focus on money and there just doesn't seem to be enough of us compared to their new buddies.
Post edited December 24, 2020 by ReynardFox
Posted December 24, 2020
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ReynardFox: I get where you're coming from, and given a better company that would seem the logical conclusion... but given GOG's track record, whether it's cognitive dissonance or just annoyance with an old crowd who won't change for them, I don't expect they'll acknowledge their faults outside Cyberpunk.
Tbh I care more that the financial impact is big enough that they think twice before doing such things ever again.
(and that they possibly reverse course re: devotion at some point...that would be nice to see as well)

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ReynardFox: They have a short sighted focus on money and there just doesn't seem to be enough of us compared to their new buddies.
I am guessing you mean people buying the Heretic/Hexen games?

If so, I wouldn't worry.....they are getting maybe a dollar or so per sale of the bundles.....so(in the grand scheme of things) it likely won't even come close to countering the lost income from the 2077 issues and the people not buying(or as much) due to the devotion removal.
Post edited December 24, 2020 by GamezRanker
Posted December 24, 2020
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ReynardFox: I get where you're coming from, and given a better company that would seem the logical conclusion... but given GOG's track record, whether it's cognitive dissonance or just annoyance with an old crowd who won't change for them, I don't expect they'll acknowledge their faults outside Cyberpunk.
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GamezRanker: Tbh I care more that the financial impact is big enough that they think twice before doing such things ever again.
(and that they possibly reverse course re: devotion at some point...that would be nice to see as well)

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ReynardFox: They have a short sighted focus on money and there just doesn't seem to be enough of us compared to their new buddies.
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GamezRanker: I am guessing you mean people buying the Heretic/Hexen games?

If so, I wouldn't worry.....they are getting maybe a dollar or so per sale of the bundles.....so(in the grand scheme of things) it likely won't even come close to countering the lost income from the 2077 issues and the people not buying(or as much) due to the devotion removal.
What you're missing is that the new buddies likely outnumber those upset who have already spent most of the money they'll ever spend on GOG.
Posted December 24, 2020
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kohlrak: What you're missing is that the new buddies likely outnumber those upset who have already spent most of the money they'll ever spend on GOG.
The number of those upset at the removal likely outnumber the "many gamers" who wanted it off the site, though....and many of us still have money we'd gladly spend here if not for things like this.
Posted December 24, 2020
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kohlrak: What you're missing is that the new buddies likely outnumber those upset who have already spent most of the money they'll ever spend on GOG.
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GamezRanker: The number of those upset at the removal likely outnumber the "many gamers" who wanted it off the site, though....and many of us still have money we'd gladly spend here if not for things like this.
But it's still not enough. That's why i think it's better to just make China show what it's really like.
Posted December 24, 2020
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kohlrak: But it's still not enough.
It's still a start...and a long journey starts with but a single step.
Posted December 24, 2020
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ReynardFox: They have a short sighted focus on money and there just doesn't seem to be enough of us compared to their new buddies.
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GamezRanker: I am guessing you mean people buying the Heretic/Hexen games?
Oh, I meant GOG themselves, I worded that poorly.
Posted December 26, 2020
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The fact that GOG has been radio silent to everyone living outside of West Taiwan has told me all I need to know.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionHere's a message from a real GOG gamer. Release Devotion.(228 posts)(228 posts)
(228 posts)