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General discussionHatred (game)(2790 posts)(2790 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 23, 2014
just personal experience,played unreal tournament as a kid deathmatch,was never really good at it ,after some hours topped everything and in combination with the music,I was so pumped I was feeling like punching a wall.
Post edited October 23, 2014 by Sorapak
Posted October 23, 2014
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Sorapak: just personal experience,played unreal tournament as a kid deathmatch,was never really good at it ,after some hours topped everything and in combination with the music,I was so pumped I was feeling like punching a wall.
I can relate. I felt the same when my mom was unfair to me.
Posted October 23, 2014
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monkeydelarge: I don't know exactly why Thomas Was Alone was rejected but I'm sure GOG had a good reason. I'm sure they didn't just reject the game simply because the content is disgusting for some sensitive people... And if they did reject Thomas Was Alone because of it's content, GOG had no good reason to do so. And rejecting a game is a hostile action(an antagonistic action). My answer to your 2nd question is, no. Because Hatred is not out of line with site standards and the content of Hatred is not toxic. It's just disgusting for some people. When it comes to the technical side of games, there are standards but not when it comes to content. There are no standards when it comes to art... Nobody has the right to say, good art must be like this or that and art that is different from this or that is bad art(or toxic art). Of course, GOG like most stores in the world has the freedom to do whatever they want to do but that doesn't mean every action they take is a moral action or an action that is good for business.
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charmer: I just thought it peculiar that you felt a need to even to bring innocence and guilt into this context. So some devs and GOG enter a negotiation and they don't reach an agreement. Now you label GOG's action "hostile" yet also the devs are "guilty" (of something) cos GOG refused them. But then there's this "good reason" thing, determined by you, which might or might not shuffle these labels around at your convenience. Not sure how that makes sense but nevermind.

Spreading Hatred? Explain to me how a game like Hatred spreads hatred? Does is secretly hypnotize people into being Nazis?
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charmer: Let's see: the game is called Hatred, it's protagonist is full of (self-inflicted) hatred and the whole point of the game is to vent out that hatred into the (game) world in possibly the most extreme way possible. For that to happen, you need to be intrigued enough to assume the role of that guy in the game. But still nothing happens until you decide to point a gun and shoot. From what we can gather so far, the game won't let you do anything else than to translate the hatred into violent action. The hatred is the message of the game and the framing that extreme violence is an expected response to it is implied by the gameplay. I wonder what the game might be aiming to spread... Wait, was that a trick question? I feel like captain Obvious now.

Moving on. If era of national socialism in Germany taught us anything, there is a monster in most people and you don't need subliminal messages or hypnosis to bring it out. Ever heard of Stanford prison experiment? It was kind of a game too. We affect our environment and our environment affects us. Most influences are hard to track though because of the effect of time and/or the subtlety of side effects or outcomes. Some people are more susceptible to manipulation and addiction and more and more people have no one to talk to about anything, let alone serious issues like this one.

I was in your camp once. I've stepped out not to join "the other side" but to look at things from a different angle - the angle at which my inner self was not fundamentally invested.

HTH
I brought innocence into the discussion because not selling a game is a hostile act and there is no good reason to be hostile towards the people behind Hatred because they have not done one single thing wrong. Just like it there is no good reason for a judge to sentence an innocent man to death. But now I know inside your head, you see a good reason for Hatred to be destroyed. That is the problem.

The Stanford Prison Experiment proves that power corrupts people and that humans without power, follow those who have power like brainless sheeple. It had nothing to do with video games. It would be impossible for a video game to bring that evil to the surface alone.
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Sorapak: just personal experience,played unreal tournament as a kid deathmatch,was never really good at it ,after some hours topped everything and in combination with the music,I was so pumped I was feeling like punching a wall.
Your experience only proves(if everything you say is true) that Unreal Tournament and the right kind of music can lead to a feeling. Because you are a human being and not a wild beast, you did not act on that feeling.
Post edited October 23, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Posted October 23, 2014
I'm not sayng videogames make you a killer,but videogames have an effect on you,as every other medium,but because of their interactive and immersive nature the effect is more than the rest mediums.
Posted October 23, 2014
No credible correlation has ever been established. You could stretch it to say a psychopath looking to latch onto ‘inspiration’ would be more likely to pick from a game than a book, but even then it’s a shaky hypothesis.

Unreal Tournament triggered adrenaline, so can fishing, watching a movie, or wearing a mesh tanktop.

That last one might just be me.
Posted October 23, 2014
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charmer: Hm, that's not what I said, meant, or implied. Overt effects like that can hardly ever manifest from a single-source influence. Cynicism and desensitization are much more common in my opinion. Oh, and having snappy comebacks at ppl you disagree with :)
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realkman666: That's good to hear. If hatred doesn't lead to killing, we'll all be safe when the game comes out.
Oh, I see. If it is not outright killing then the damage simply doesn't count. Nothing like reducing complex issues into narrow-minded black-and-white rationalizations...

I have seen some studies suggesting no correlation, and no study suggesting correlation or causation.
And I think I can tell why - you had no interest to find any correlation so you made no effort to find it. Out of curiosity, I tried a simple search. In 10 seconds I found:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/232700149_Violent_Video_Games_Stress_People_Out_and_Make_Them_More_Aggressive

Even though stress-aggression relation can be intensified by a variety of influences, it is of no surprise that violent video games constitute one of the sources which can aggravate its effect. Could it be that the reality is not black-and-white after all?
Posted October 23, 2014
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Sorapak: I'm not sayng videogames make you a killer,but videogames have an effect on you,as every other medium,but because of their interactive and immersive nature the effect is more than the rest mediums.
You are right. Video games make you happy. :)
Post edited October 23, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Posted October 23, 2014
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Sorapak: I'm not sayng videogames make you a killer,but videogames have an effect on you,as every other medium,but because of their interactive and immersive nature the effect is more than the rest mediums.
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monkeydelarge: You are right. Video games makes you happy. :)
this could be misinterpreted so wrongly.. :P Or my mind's too dirty :P
Posted October 23, 2014
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KasperHviid: About committing virtual mass murder in games: I remember having constructing levels in Red Alert solely to murder a bounch of non-fighting characters. Sure, it has some basic attraction. But at the same time, it is something that makes me feel a bit pathetic, somehow.
How old were you at the time?
Posted October 23, 2014
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realkman666: That's good to hear. If hatred doesn't lead to killing, we'll all be safe when the game comes out.
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charmer: Oh, I see. If it is not outright killing then the damage simply doesn't count. Nothing like reducing complex issues into narrow-minded black-and-white rationalizations...

I have seen some studies suggesting no correlation, and no study suggesting correlation or causation.
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charmer: And I think I can tell why - you had no interest to find any correlation so you made no effort to find it. Out of curiosity, I tried a simple search. In 10 seconds I found:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/232700149_Violent_Video_Games_Stress_People_Out_and_Make_Them_More_Aggressive

Even though stress-aggression relation can be intensified by a variety of influences, it is of no surprise that violent video games constitute one of the sources which can aggravate its effect. Could it be that the reality is not black-and-white after all?
I wonder did you read the report? Did you fully understand it?
Posted October 23, 2014
Here are a bunch of reports that say the same thing over and over. Frustration / Diffculty level with Video games cause violence not the content.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26921743

http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/04/08/video-game-frustration-not-content-fosters-aggression/68225.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/recent-study-finds-aggression-video-games-due-incompetence-1569609

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/violent-video-games-dont-make-you-aggressive--difficult-games-do-says-new-study-9246838.html

That said - You are welcome :)

EDIT: Whoops Triple post :\
Post edited October 23, 2014 by HeadClot
Posted October 23, 2014
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monkeydelarge: I brought innocence into the discussion because not selling a game is a hostile act and there is no good reason to be hostile towards the people behind Hatred because they have not done one single thing wrong.
By that logic, any kind of negotiation when one party refuses to oblige the other would be deemed as "hostile". I believe this framing is routinely used in mafia (offers you can't refuse etc.)...

Point of the matter being that the devs took a decision to spread hatred (as I've explained) which I think is a pretty bad decision. And they are not entitled to any publicity provided by GOG, Steam or whoever.

In fact, they know very well that the content they are trying to spread and sell will be likely banned in some countries. They made a calculated decision not to go too far and draw a line to prevent further bannings and ensuring more profit. In other words, they decided to be politically correct in terms of portraying kids and animals. Yet, not a peep about that from you or other supporters.

Just like it there is no good reason for a judge to sentence an innocent man to death. But now I know inside your head,
Excuse me? How old are you to claim such a thing?
you see a good reason for Hatred to be destroyed. That is the problem.
Destroyed? Only in your little bubble, sorry. Go to their website and revel in Hatred if you must. If anything, these kind of games should be exposed for cynical depravity they are, bringing nothing new or original to the table in terms of gameplay, mechanics, and storytelling, apart from horrific images.

The Stanford Prison Experiment proves that power corrupts people and that humans without power, follow those who have power like brainless sheeple. It had nothing to do with video games. It would be impossible for a video game to bring that evil to the surface alone.
And WW2 Germany had nothing to do with video games either. The point which I suspect you deliberately chose to miss was that sometimes humans are quite easily manipulated to do things they would not normally do by forces they might see as completely benign and harmless. While the resulting effects vary in its seriousness and can rarely be explained by a single cause, it remains a reality that we are not all on the same footing in terms of cognitive functions, critical thinking, and susceptibility to external stimuli.
Posted October 23, 2014
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HeadClot: Here are a bunch of reports that say the same thing over and over. Frustration / Diffculty level with Video games cause violence not the content.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26921743

http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/04/08/video-game-frustration-not-content-fosters-aggression/68225.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/recent-study-finds-aggression-video-games-due-incompetence-1569609

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/violent-video-games-dont-make-you-aggressive--difficult-games-do-says-new-study-9246838.html

That said - You are welcome :)

EDIT: Whoops Triple post :\
What about DRM?
Posted October 23, 2014
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HeadClot: Here are a bunch of reports that say the same thing over and over. Frustration / Diffculty level with Video games cause violence not the content.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26921743

http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/04/08/video-game-frustration-not-content-fosters-aggression/68225.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/recent-study-finds-aggression-video-games-due-incompetence-1569609

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/violent-video-games-dont-make-you-aggressive--difficult-games-do-says-new-study-9246838.html

That said - You are welcome :)

EDIT: Whoops Triple post :\
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realkman666: What about DRM?
The DRM made me do it! A documentary about Uplay and the people who made it.

It seemed like a good idea at the time - How Hatred told a compelling story about Love, Loss, revenge, remorse and insanity.

:P

I am not affiliated with the hatred dev team btw - Just throwing that out there.
Post edited October 23, 2014 by HeadClot
Posted October 23, 2014
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HeadClot: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/violent-video-games-dont-make-you-aggressive--difficult-games-do-says-new-study-9246838.html
So people should be more concerned about Flappy Bird.
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Community
General discussionHatred (game)(2790 posts)(2790 posts)
(2790 posts)